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Hey, Answerman! - But is it Art?


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Wooga



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 916
Location: Tucson
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:32 pm Reply with quote
As someone who went to art school the reason people say 'anime is not art' is because it is a crutch, or a shortcut.

Think about it. "anime style" came about as a way to simplify the human form in order to be able to draw it simply and multiple times. The whole point of the anime style is to simplify the character. Anime is art, but one static piece of anime-style art is pretty lazy, especially if you're in a art project where the teacher asks you to draw the human head and you just draw a quick sketch of Naruto. (yes i have seen people do this) And if your'e just mimicing a style, you're not learning anything.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:52 pm Reply with quote
rabrek wrote:
It's been interesting to watch McCartney's identity evolve across the generations. Twenty years ago, it was "Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?"
Yeah, I knew that Paul#2 formed a second band to give one of his main squeezes a job, just hadn't realized he stayed in music after that collapsed.

Quote:
At the moment, I'm waxing nostalgic for carbon paper and mimeograph machines. Remember the smell of mimeographed copies? Mmmmm. I can only imagine how many brain cells perished.
In Grenada we had a Gestetner stencil machine. The only way to "fix" a typo in in a stencil of a test is to blot it out. If only I could have brought a daisywheel printer with me so the Commodore 128 could have been used as a word processor.

{voice style="actor:DennisHopper"} But Balsa, man, she doesn't need no bulletin board systems, man, Gestetner stencils, Commodore computers or none of that hi-tech gear, man, she teaches her lessons with life, man. Life, and a big ol' spear, man.{/voice}
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GracieLizzy



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 551
Location: Sunderland, England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:53 pm Reply with quote
LordRedhand wrote:
Onto the Major Kusanagi.. one of my friends has proposed the idea that the Major is male.. and one could question it with episode 1 from the first series and episode 13 from the 2nd Gig... of course memories could throw wrinkles or not... assuming that they are accurate we know that the Major had to get a replacement body fairly young... and in an emergency kind of situation one could imagine a doctor trying to save the life of a person with a prosthetic body but perhaps not having the right one on hand and the need is immediate, so they use what is on hand to save the life. Thus a situation like a male mind going into a female prosthetic body is possible.. one would wonder about how they as a person could develop... which could also lead to a immoral thought experiment (in my mind at least) is that say the doctor instead of desperately trying to save a life wants to study exactly that idea.. and has a captive and unwilling volunteer to force the experiment...


Or she could just be transgender, I'd imagine in Ghost in the Shell verse prosthetic bodies might have replaced gender reassignment surgery for those who can afford them.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4450
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:57 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Am I the only one who just assumed Mr. Popo was some kind of outer space potato man or something? Not saying he is, I just didn't actually pick up on it when I first watched DBZ since he doesn't actually look out of place next to the likes of Piccolo, Freeza, etc.



I didn't see him as a potential stereotype until someone else pointed it out to me and I had watched the show for quite some time before that . Like you said, the show is full of space aliens and has sapient animal-people, so I didn't make much of Popo's appearance.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:11 pm Reply with quote
GracieLizzy wrote:


Or she could just be transgender, I'd imagine in Ghost in the Shell verse prosthetic bodies might have replaced gender reassignment surgery for those who can afford them.


That indeed can be very good possibility as well but if we use she are we referring to what we see now or before? Would change some thing if it was the before part.

Really the episode 13 of the 2nd Gig really makes you question.. much like judging gender based on online avatars in an MMO or forum.. what is seen may not necessarily be the case. (Although in My DM experience most of the time players tend to choose their own gender when imagining a character, but that's not always the case from game system to game system. I know my brother played a female avatar on WoW, because as he put it "I play this game for hours, might as well have something good to look at while doing so." which personally makes me go "Sigh" but is interesting...)
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Reverse importation is such a lame excuse these days. The Japanese studios could easily add English, and other language subs to their DVD's before ever releasing the licence for overseas distribution. That would take most of the wind out of the sails of the pirates and fansubbers that use the excuse of "there was no sub", then those fans who want their fix immediately, and have the means to do so can simply purchase from those Japanese outlets like Amazon.jp etc. exclusively. "Can't do it" = "won't do it" and just means they'll get no sympathy for self inflicted wounds. Rolling Eyes
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Thanks to Wyvern for that One Piece info.

Africa is a continent, so there is not just one type of people living there, not just a single stereotype that could define it.


I didn't percieve Mr. Popo as a black stereotype, even though his face undoubtedly resembles blackface. He looks more alien or elflike than anything.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Not that it's a major bother to me...but, I'm gonna be honest. Popo is definitely a stereotype. If you watch the Japanese version, he speaks in broken sentences and really grovelly. Like "You come now" or "Popo know where ship is."
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:07 pm Reply with quote
But just because he's dumb or speaks broken English is not an absolute indication that he represents an realistic racial stereotype.

I'm not giving Anime a pass, because they've had their racial blunders, but I'd like to argue for them a bit.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:30 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
Thanks to Wyvern for that One Piece info.

Africa is a continent, so there is not just one type of people living there, not just a single stereotype that could define it.


I didn't percieve Mr. Popo as a black stereotype, even though his face undoubtedly resembles blackface. He looks more alien or elflike than anything.


Thank you for saying this.

People need to remember that just because the skin is tan or the hair curly does not make the person African, African-American...
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:


Not that it matters, because of course no reasonable person would judge Brook by the color of his skin. Oh wait...he doesn't have skin! Yohohohohoho!


SKULL JOKE!


but seriously its nice to see all the one piece love being thrown around the site lately. Its nice to see a good show getting attention after so many dismissed it early on.

also nice to see some Ussop love in this weeks Answerman, he has and always will be my favorite character from the series. For the reasons previously stated beforehand.


Quote:
Really the episode 13 of the 2nd Gig really makes you question.. much like judging gender based on online avatars in an MMO or forum.. what is seen may not necessarily be the case. (Although in My DM experience most of the time players tend to choose their own gender when imagining a character, but that's not always the case from game system to game system. I know my brother played a female avatar on WoW, because as he put it "I play this game for hours, might as well have something good to look at while doing so." which personally makes me go "Sigh" but is interesting...)


its funny that you mention this because, as an avid world of Warcraft player i know a lot of people who use avatars of the opposite gender. I never really understood it, I don't even do the traditional Role playing and i always choose a male character.

Its funny how this relates to ghost in the shell though, i never really thought about it that way.
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PMDR



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:02 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:

its funny that you mention this because, as an avid world of Warcraft player i know a lot of people who use avatars of the opposite gender. I never really understood it, I don't even do the traditional Role playing and i always choose a male character.


That's the point: life gives you one gender (most of the time). You'll always be the same. The games give you a chance to play as and pretend you are something else you can't otherwise be.

If you were restricted your entire life to wearing one kind of shoes, you might find it interesting if you played a game that allowed you to wear another kind. If the game is also full of other stuff you can't have or do, so much the better.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:19 pm Reply with quote
YotaruVegeta wrote:
Anyone who doesn't understand that 1) art is subjective and 2) Japanese animation is a form of art should either complete the 8th grade or die in a campfire.

The definition of art remains a controversial academic subject. Several aestheticians concede that those engaged with "artworks" in a scholarly manner have yet to achieve a suitable definition that fully accounts for the representational, expressive and formal qualities (et cetera) we traditionally cite when declaring a work to be a work of art. In recent decades, some have even gone as far as to suggest that a definition of art is impossible. Currently, various functional and historic definitions have attained a level of prominence.

In view of such a myriad, it would perhaps be tempting to declare the matter of the true definition to be subjective. Of course, one problem with doing so at a definitional level is that one loses the ability to claim that different people are talking about the same sorts of things when using the word "art". Instead of merely believing the criteria for art to be restricted in a way that others might not agree upon, a genuine subjectivist of the matter of definition would believe the term "art" to mean a great many dissimilar things in different contexts, in virtue of the many different qualities that different subjects use the term to connote.

Whilst I am happy to accept that different people may validly apply separate terms to the same object simultaneously, I accept this only in cases in which the terms denote facts about the speaker in relation to the object as opposed to the object alone — as in the case of most opinionated discussion — and not in cases in which different speakers use the same word to denote dissimilar sets of facts about objects alone. "Art" does not seem to be used in the former way.

Now. I presume you have in mind something other than a subjectivity of definition. I presume that you may instead be considering the term "art" to be synonymous with a given aesthetic standard or a degree of aesthetic value, and that you deem a work's satisfaction of said standard to be a subjective matter. Whilst I can differentiate my initial thoughts on the matter from these conjectures upon your considerations, one can certainly see the merits in thinking in the way I presume you to think.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:08 pm Reply with quote
You said a lot of big words. Polysyllabic as well. Smile

Some people argue that something like video games are not are, even though the pieces of the final product are artwork. I think video games are art, and I would even consider a computer operating system art.

As for what I meant by subjective, I was responding to the Answerman question where someone on Deviantart said "anime is not art" implying that anime is at some lower level where it is too horrible not to be considered art.

Those clowns feel like there is a standard for art, when the only thing that should define art is whether a work was created to illicit emotion in an audience or not.
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InnocentSorrow59



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 156
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:28 pm Reply with quote
kailegh wrote:
Kyogissun wrote:

Greed1914 wrote:
InnocentSorrow59 wrote:


Is it just me or did his answers seem more...aggressive this week? I don't really care much (Aggressive Answerman owns all?) but it kinda felt that way...


I liked it. To the point answers are my favorite.


I liked them too. Not to say Brian beats around the bush, I just think that it's nice to see... well, 'lively' answers.

Agreed. The "kick him in the throat" bit made my day~


Anime hyper I didn't hate it, I think "lively" Answerman is awesome too. (Haha I'm saying that like they're two different people... What if they are?! Dun dun DUN!)

I remember when people would insult anime and manga and TELL ME TO MY FACE. (I told them off and I had my friends... And my fists and notebook which I would hit them with, tsundere style.) It annoyed me to no end. After a while I just told them "You know what? I don't care. That's your opinion and if you feel like you have to bug me about it get a life and stop acting like a child." Then after that I went back to acting like a 5 year old and gushing over Roronoa Zoro Laughing And one of the kids that would bug me was reading One Piece a few weeks later. (To which I shunned him because I'm an asshat like that.) It's more annoying than people would think.

People who think anime isn't art are the kind of people who should never be artists. Artists are usually open minded and all that. Someone so close minded wouldn't be able to enjoy art. Because you cannot (and I mean CANNOT) look at Black Butler and think it's not art. (The drawings, IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!)
One Piece is art. FMA is art (and if you don't think so I may kick you in the nads...). Hell, even Naruto is art (and I dislike it!).
He deserves a boot to the head!...And another for the wimp. Laughing
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