Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Is It Socially Unacceptable To Be An Otaku In Japan?
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Ashley Hakker
Posts: 115 |
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At my work we're actually involved in the production of Marvel films (And many other films) and I've literally seen work-mates declare 'This is it. I'm going to actually TOUCH a Marvel film. I'll get to say that I MADE PART OF IT, it will exist for forever and that's AWESOME. :O' and then the conversation turn to the merits of the MCU as a whole and the direction it's going. So, to answer your question, 'This week'. |
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Ashen Phoenix
 Posts: 2914 |
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That is troubling. 
This was a fascinating article! |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Movies =/= Comics |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Japan shares much with England, in that they both had a monarchical social hierarchy dating back to their very pre-history, with those on top enjoying the luxury of telling those on the bottom they just weren't working hard enough, and those stuck in the middle of the pecking order trying to find those slightly under the middle to peck on. And that doing so was somehow contributing to the traditional spiritual ethic that made the thousand-year-old country what it was. Nowadays, to be an otaku of ANYTHING, let alone of anime, games or manga, is to be a hopeless otaku of EVERYTHING, and thus presumably sharing the shameful aspect of childish self-destruction that will ultimately make him the very cancer of his workplace or school... If you look at this season's current reboot of The Laughing Salesman, whose plots all revolve around flawed characters getting Faustian paybacks for their fatal flaws, the flaws in the episode just all happen to revolve around workplace-stiff characters either immature and unable to let go of their childhoods (eg. still living at home with Mom or not dating), or letting their particular hobby passion get the better of them (the train otaku who wants to ride the legendary favorite line), especially if it starts to interfere with their bitter and hallway-sniping workplaces. And in the end, it's not the Salesman who's laughing at them, but the show, and we're encouraged to point and laugh at their innate self-destruction as well, since it was clearly bound to happen sooner or later anyway, tough luck, loser. Now attach that sentiment to the idea of still watching "cartoons" when you should be studying for the college exam for that big career, or of playing Playstation or typing on the Internet when you should be running into the sunset with the spirit of Youth, enjoying all that sunshine, and that's when you start to see a bit of cultural or socially/hierarchically-justified glee in the pecking... There's an old joke, "Ever notice when you're in a grocery or DMV line that isn't moving, and someone gets behind you, you feel better?" And when you're in a country that isn't economically moving, and someone appears to have more social/maturity "flaws" in the gainful workplace than you do, reminding them of it feels even THAT much better. Last edited by EricJ2 on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ashley Hakker
Posts: 115 |
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Where do you think every conversation that STARTS with the Marvel movies ENDS? 
Hint: In discussing the comics. 30mins today was about Collateral Damage to be specific. |
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SillyPerson
 Posts: 39 Location: Vatican City |
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Being into anime is not perverted. And they show it all the time on Japanese TV. I don't see the big deal. So what if ONE killer was an otaku? I am sure that there have also been Japanese businessmen who killed people but nobody stereotypes all businessmen as being serial killers and tries to make being a businessman socially unacceptable in Japan.
I know that there is some fan-made stuff like doujinshi and hentai that can kinda be perverted, and publicly announcing you are into it is like publicly announcing you love watching pornographic films. But not all of the anime and manga stuff is hentai or perverted, and most of the stuff I am into is not like that at all, although admittedly some of it is "ecchi" stuff with "fanservice", but only because that is what Japan is putting out and it is hard to avoid the fanservice nowadays. It's not as if I actively seek out anime with fanservice, I am mostly indifferent to it. For me the best service an anime can provide me as a fan isn't panty shots or anything like that, but good quality writing, a good plot, good characters, good artwork, good music, good voice acting, just the kind of stuff that makes a show actually good. So I dunno whether I'd be considered an otaku or not, I do watch a LOT of anime and talk about it a lot and it is my biggest hobby currently. But I am not a terribly strange person or anything, and I think my tastes in anime are pretty typical and conventional. I don't see why there would be any problem with liking anime, that is like if there were a social stigma against people who like sitcoms or against people who like HBO or Showtime shows. I suppose if an adult is into cartoons this might be perceived as a bit childish, but my elderly dad likes Teletubbies and Spongebob Squarepants and it seems perfectly natural to me, I don't judge. And my elderly mom is into shows that are live-action but based on fairy tales and myths, nothing wrong with that either. I guess that Japanese society itself just makes no sense to me despite all the anime I have seen... apparently the way people act in almost all anime would be very inappropriate in real life in Japan, although here in America, a lot of that same behavior would be considered perfectly normal. Or maybe our societies are not really that different at all, I have no idea, I've never been to Japan. I have read about various subcultures in Japan that are very strange such as ganguro girls who take getting dark suntans and having weird makeup to new heights... hopefully those ganguro girls won't get skin cancer. From what I have heard, ganguro girls are similarly perceived negatively just like otaku by many ordinary Japanese people... people who are different tend to be looked down on, but still there are many strange subcultures in Japan that arise precisely to rebel against this type of society, and maybe the people in those subcultures will end up winning the culture wars there and the more socially conservative Japanese people who just want everyone to act normal will end up losing. Besides being into anime I am into a subculture called the Church of the SubGenius, a "joke religion", which was really considered out there back in the 1980s, but now so many people are acting weird in the U.S., being a SubGenius is practically mainstream and no longer means much of anything anymore, what with all the people who are into memes and various odd subcultures now. Japanese game shows seem very weird, a lot of things there completely unrelated to anime and manga seem weird like the "penis festivals", so it is hard for me to think of them as being very serious and not into weird things. Everything about Japan seems incredibly weird to me, that is the whole appeal. But maybe they are actually just a boring country full of mostly normal people who only pretend to be a weird country to get attention, who knows. |
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silentjay
Posts: 304 |
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A. No, they don't. Some places refuse to do business with foreigners, regardless of status. B. Gaijin is a term usually used as a pejorative. The term you want is gaikokujin. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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This article hit a lot of nails on the head. Particularly the comment that much of anime has become something of a salve for the social anxieties of Japanese nerd-dom. TBH, I feel like the modern Production Committee model is business-driven to the point of exploiting that fact, to the detriment of the most vulnerable of fans. For many in the fandom, anime is becoming more than just a salve --- it's turning into a surrogate for personal relationships and a normal life.
Nerd-dom in the West, I think, is a lot healthier in comparison. There's a certain mainstream open-ness and acceptance of previously nerd-only genres that isn't driven nearly as much by sexual or social frustrations. |
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Slashman
 Posts: 253 |
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What's troubling is people trying to tell other people what they should and shouldn't like and people telling other people how they should or should not feel about something. Whether you like mainstream anime/manga, whether you're into moe slice-of-life, whether you get your fix from erotic visual novels, fanservice romcoms or RPGs or whatever else, as long as you're not hurting anyone or causing anyone else problems, your hobby is your own. If you're embarrassed about it because someone else likes something you don't in a separate genre and you want to go hide away and limit your enjoyment because of that, then take a long hard look in the mirror and and ask who has the real problem. It never fails to amaze me how people frequenting an anime/manga enthusiast news site want to keep making apologies for what they like. The genre is wide enough and with enough sub-categories that pretty much anyone can find something they're interested in. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
 Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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Its use as a pronoun seems to be the correct origin of the term. I've been unable to pin down when "hikikomori" really became known to the general public, but I wouldn't put it any earlier than the mid-90s, whereas "otaku" started being used to mean obsessive nerds in the early 80s. The other theory based on the "house" definition I've heard, also debunked by timing, relates to Miyazaki Tsutomu and "the whole house" being filled with anime videotapes. (That being late 80s.) Though that did turn otaku from being "obsessive but probably harmless weirdos" to "mentally disturbed and potential serial killer" to many people and introduced the term to a fair number of them.
Not really. They're disliked in the sense of that weird racist uncle who you never talk about, try to avoid at family gatherings, and worry might be in the papers one day for lynching someone; disliked, but not enough of a problem to be worth "dealing with" them. And there's a lot of money in it, publishers selling books and videos, stores employing people, etc that would have some significant economic impacts if otaku-oriented anime and manga were to be stamped out. Besides, Japanese society doesn't actually take action to deal with its problems, it pretends they don't exist until they get too big to ignore, then makes a token but somewhat misguided and largely ineffectual effort to do something.
Earlier this week, I think, though having a workplace where comic books are relevant to the business might have something to do with that. |
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Paiprince
 Posts: 593 |
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Oh get over your ethnocentrist high horse man. A lot healthier? Do you just ignore the flat out deviant behaviors of MLP'ers and Homestuckers? Chris-chan? The average comic book demographic of XXL nasty looking balls with manners akin to a kindergartener? The list goes on and on.
Again, another generalization. Not everyone in mainstream Japanese society thinks of them in a cynical manner like that. A bad habit I see here is the exaggeration of the "Japanese hivemind" because we always love to zero in on that collectivist mindset that is oh so alien to us and therefore it's bad for the average human's well being. And as for that last bit. The same holds true for every society on Earth. We wouldn't want to oppress the downtrodden, powerless minority right? Only when they misbehave, that the kid gloves come off. |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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You can try to focus on niche Western subcultures as a defense, but you can't deny the enormous impact that comic book films and videogames have had on Western pop culture in the last 20 years. Nerd entertainment has practically become mainstream in the West, while in Japan it's still looked down on by working-class adults. I do think that that cultural divide plays a part in the social frustrations that are fueling the type of increasingly pandering output we're seeing in anime these days. 80's and 90's anime actually seemed a lot more genre-driven and internationally-inspired compared to the more insular and trope-driven titles that make up a sizable chunk of the modern market, so it's not like I've always felt this way about Japan; actually, back in the 90's I practically felt the opposite. |
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Ashley Hakker
Posts: 115 |
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...That is an exceptionally narrow focus to take on a few specific things just to justify you being a self-hating nerd o.O |
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Crisha
Moderator
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Guys, argue about the differences between Western and Japanese fandom WITHOUT resulting to insults, or else we're shutting the argument down.
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Stuart Smith
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If the incident with Kurt Eichenwald is any indication, people would rather pretend that side of the nerdom is a small minority or non-existant entirely, rather than admit the truth Anglo countries are a lot more shameful and prideful about those things. The main difference is here it's forced to be hidden away in the shadows. Plenty of porn comics, videos, and pictures exist, but they're digital only, because having a huge convention like Comiket or store hosting physical releases is impossible in our society versus Japan. One just needs to go to one of those furry sites and see how much artists make from commissions, or head over to the Patreon and see artists making up to 30K a month. To put in perspective, that's heads and shoulders above more than what 'mainstream' journalists, or ex-TGWTG allumini/YouTubers are making. 'Out of sight, out of mind' and all of that. If it's not a front page article on Buzzfeed, most people will ignore it.
Those comic films and AAA games are in the same manner of Sazae-san or One Piece in Japan. It's fine to like them, but breaking through the first tier to the more obscure stuff below is when the stigma hits. Dismissing them as 'niche subcultures' is intellectually dishonest. As someone who worked in a comic shop during his youth, comics were more mainstream then than they are now, since sales have slumped despite the movie boom and DC and Marvels attempt at pushing them. In printed regard, manga is far more mainstream in Japan than comics are here. If you're going to talk about Wonder Woman to your co-workers, it better be Gal Gadot, because people will think you're a nerd if you talk about the fan favorited Perez run of the 80s and 90s. -Stuart Smith |
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