Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-01-12]
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Strephon
Posts: 177 |
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I have to say I'm amused by the misinterpretation in the fillers question: reading "Naruto fillers to end" not as "filler is ending" but "it's all filler until the ending" is a very, um, creative way of looking at it.
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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Ah yes, the great "subtitle but no actual volume number" issue that caused many a problem for me at Von's Comics and Video Rental Store back when I was renting Revolutionary Girl Utena. I kept getting the wrong disc, because the person at the counter couldn't find the volume number (and the only way I knew I had the right one was by looking at the box for the episode listing...which was even more confusing, because they'd have two seperate episode listings, one for what was on the DVD, and another for special stuff from the previous DVD's episodes). As a matter of fact, the poor labeling of the Utena DVDs kept me from even bothering to start the series for several years after it came out. I had no idea where the beginning of the damn thing was. At least now I know the 'reasoning' for the lack of volume numbers, as silly as it sounds to me.
Although like Zalis, I do rather like some volume subtitles. Utena has a few catchy ones, like "Impatience and Longing" and "Darkness Beckoning"...even if they made it difficult to figure out just what came next. |
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bennyb
 Posts: 477 |
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I was happy to have the "subtitle on each volume" question answered! I recently received the whole Bubblegum Crisis series on VHS and each one of them has one of those.
If people REALLY want to know whats better about buying anime than watching it on youtube, all ethics aside, you've got: -extras on the dvd -multilingual options -sweet coverart or extras that come with some boxsets -the ability to watch it any time, without an internet connection Altho I understand youtube is a problem due to convenience, the quality is so poor I rarely watch anything on it. I torrent, like many newschool otaku. I can't buy everything I watch, but I buy what I like. This is the middle-ground approach, in general I pirate shamelessly but in this case especially for series that would be canned without fan support (cromartie high school manga, Hare+Guu, etc.) I feel proud to own them. Also, IMO, manga is so much more worth owning. |
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belisarius
Posts: 203 Location: Concord, NC |
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$20.00 says this weeks rant was written by an ADV employee. You know, like those people Penny Arcade sort of outed a while back who gaming companies paid to lurk gaming forums, develop online "personas" and then write favorable commentary of games for cash. Seriously, something about that rant seemed a little too much like the author wanted us to all pack our bags and go on a guilt trip. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the basics of what he's saying, but the whole thing seems a tad contrived.
As an aside, I can't believe people watch anime on YouTube. Fansubs, sure, I get that. But Youtube? The quality is god awful. It's like watching a VHS tape you managed to prevent your dog from eating but had already been in its mouth for a while. |
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Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
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I think the anime producers continue to produce filler ins because it makes money and that most of those filler-in filled Shounen Jump anime adaptations are targeted at a younger age group in Japan than in America who doesn't complain as much as the older more jaded American fans. In Japan, anime is mostly watched by kids and younger teens whereas manga is mostly read by older readers. Most older readers who buy the Naruto manga in Japan probably don't even watch the anime at all unless they want to be labeled an otaku and be shunned by society and most of the little kids who watch the Naruto anime probably don't care to read the manga too. Since the older readers who would be old enough to realize that a lot of the filler-ins in Shounen Jump anime adaptations are crap probably don't even watch the anime, the companies don't hear any complaints from them because they're probably too busy socializing with friends or studying for high school entrance exams than to complain about crappy episodes in a kid's cartoon and just stick to reading the manga. And since the younger kids are just watching the Naruto anime rather than reading the manga too, since anime is more popular with younger kids in Japan than manga which is more popular with older fans, the younger kids probably don't even realize which episodes of Naruto are filler-in and which ones are actually important to the plot and just treat them all as part of the series.
It's kind of like how when you have kids who never read the Lord Of The Rings books and watch the movies first, the kids who never read the books and don't know which parts of the story are different are probably going to enjoy the movies a lot more than say someone who has read the books first and are watching the movies with a critical eye, pointing out each and every scene that's even the slightest bit different than the original Lord Of The Rings books. Meanwhile, in the U.S. both the Naruto anime and the manga are targeted at the same core teenage audience who have probably seen and read both versions of the series. And while in Japan you have your manga fans and then you have your anime fans, most American fans usually like both manga and anime. So basically, the anime filler-ins continue to be produced probably because most Japanese who read manga don't bother to watch the anime and most Japanese who watch anime don't bother to read the manga, so the companies receive less complaints from fans than the older more jaded American fans who have experienced both versions. I hope this made sense and this is just an educated guess on the subject but ultimately it all comes down to money. And as for the rant. if you decided to not buy a series because you watched it fansubbed first and decided it wasn't really worth your money isn't that helping your wallet? How is that cheating you out of something? If anything wouldn't you feel more cheated if you bought Ah My Goddess on DVD first and then decided later that you really didn't care about the show all that much? Seriously, the rant doesn't make any sense. |
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mokitty
Posts: 106 |
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I'll admit, I'm in the category that tends to reject these books based on nationality. But it has nothing to do with believing Japanese products in general are superior (I'm a big fan of a lot of original American works: X-men, Batman and the like). I'll also admit that I've never read a single manhwa or OEL manga. The truth is, my budget is tight. My local libraries don't have either available. And I absolutely refuse to preview them at the bookstore, as I feel very strongly about the preteens sitting on the floor blocking all the shelves every time I go there, taking every brand new book off the shelf and reading entire series without ever paying for a single damn volume (I see this as akin to people who watch fansubs out of a sense of entitlement and never buy a DVD, only worse because these kids are handling "new" merchandise and using it before those of us who support the fandom pay the full price for it). All this in mind, why do I reject these books outright? Two reasons: the prevailing opinion I've found on the internet is that the majority are just not worth it, and yes, I judge these books by their covers. If the cover art looks like something I'd expect to see on a bulletin board outside a junior high art room, I'm not inclined to want to read it. And if the cover art & content description invoke memories of a manga I've already read, I'm not inclined to read it again, no matter where it came from or who made it (though I'm a fan of Yuu Watase's art, I refuse to read Absolute Boyfriend for this reason). I suppose I just wanted to make the point that there are those of us out there who have never read and completely skip over these international "mangas" without having the immature notion that Japan is the holy land of quality. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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To touch on the subtitles thing (since my views on fansubs have been stated by others and I've mentioned them myself at times too), while I admit they are lame, sometimes they can be useful.
My experience is mainly with manga and mainly with Fushigi Yuugi, which has the subtitles for every volume and they generally seem lame and random. HOWEVER, when I was ordering volumes online, the subtitles were helpful in making sure I had the right volume number, because there were many times when the number was not listed and I had to hope that the cover picture was right or match an ISBN number, etc... Now usually the volume number is there so it's not a problem, but I definitely had times where I used the subtitle to make sure what I was ordering was what I wanted to order. Also, there are sometimes when the title is not completely random and somewhat works. Fushigi Yuugi is NOT an example of this, but I like the ones for Imadoki!, at least enough that they don't piss me off, since each volume has the subtitle of a type of flower, which definitely fits with the series and its themes. |
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Iritscen
 Posts: 793 |
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A friend recently told me about a site many of you must have heard of by now, http://www.tv-links.co.uk/. I don't think there's harm in mentioning it, but if the mods have a problem, sorry, I'll gladly remove it (I'm sure you'll beat me to it, and then beat me some more!).
Well, apparently all it does is link to Youtube and some other places. Basically it's a more organized front-end for streaming video of quesitonable legality (not just anime, but you can see that for yourself). I should have told him to buy the stuff he cares about, but the fact is that he's so incredibly cheap that he would never buy anything if he saw a free alternative (even if it looked like crap). So I just made some recommendations based on the selection of anime that's there. I mean, he's never going to see new stuff if he doesn't watch at least some ep.s streaming before deciding to buy it, because he's too thrifty to just buy something without knowing what it is or only the gist of the plot. Every thing he considers buying first requires that he read every review and random Internet opinion he can find. Then he picks out the negative comments and uses them to dissuade himself from buying the thing. It kind of irks me, but he's trying to be frugal (he just goes way overboard). That's why I'm torn between wanting these sites to go down and wanting him to see some quality anime (there's some good series there). P.S: "Bersek"? How hard is that to spell? It's been like that for a while. |
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Eos
 Posts: 168 Location: Jersey |
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We're not crazy, we understand what could happen in the long haul. If fansubs become too popular, and threaten legitimately licensed anime, lawsuits would be served that would stop subbers (a "spoil it for everyone" situation). Youtube is already on thin ice with Japanese media groups, don't put all your eggs in their basket. http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6849 Last edited by Eos on Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sarahtdl
 Posts: 9 Location: Springfield, Ma |
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Thank you for your comments, Eruanna! I'm the librarian that wrote the question. to Answerman.
I agree, if my patrons were coming in and saying, "I read the first book of the title, and I didn’t like it." Or something like that, I would be fine with that. Everyone's opinion is importnant. And I agree with Answeman that a lot of non-Japanese "manga" seems to be thrown together to cash in on the popularity (And I would say this is happening with some Japanese manga as well, but that’s a different rant). Still, I have titles that I think are very good (Dramacon being one) My experience though, is that many of my YA patrons are taking the attitude of “Its not Japanese so its crap” without even looking at it. This boggles me as (1) the books are here in the library so they can give them a chance and not pay for them if they don't like them. and (2.) These are the same folks that complain that people dismiss anime and manga without experiancing it because they think its just a cartoon and don't give it a chance. This I find Ironic seeing as so many of the same patrons draw anime style work, and write anime style stories, and talk about wanting to do their own books…..which I wholeheartedly try to encourage, but then turn around and slam the idea of non-Japanese manga-style work. Wa? I personally read based on quality of storytelling and art. I have no problem with a non-Japanese artist/writer working in a Japanese style as long as the style serves the story, and isn’t just a way to cash in on the trend. (Jill Thompson’s “At Deaths Door” and “Dead Boy Detectives” comes to mind as one of the better examples of how style serves story well) And for that matter I’d happily read a Japanese created book done in a more western style (Batman: Child of Dreams comes to mind) if its quality work. Anyway, Thanks to Answerman for the thoughts, and everyone else who weighed in. I have a lot to think on for my patrons. 
Sarah the Dyslexic Librarian |
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Sarahtdl
Posts: 9 Location: Springfield, Ma |
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I understand what you're saying, although as I said in my reply, our library DOES have a good selection of Non-Japanese Manga as well as Japanese work. I do want to weigh in that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with previewing a work in the bookstore before you buy, as long as you don’t sit there for hours reading all of it and never buying. Taking a few minutes to flip through a manga to look at the art and have an idea of the story makes sense if you're going to consider buying in. And I also understand the idea of rejecting a manga/GN based on cover art. While I generally at least try to read a little of it first before deciding its not for me, bad cover art is a big turn off. Sarah The Dyslexic Librarian |
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PaladinBlue
Posts: 63 Location: Billings, MT |
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Reviews-
This is one of the few times I agree with Zac. Yes, middle-of-the-road titles are the hardest to review, especially when are trying to find an audience for the title and you are not in it. Ones that the reviewer either loves or hates for a particular reason are much easier. Manwha and OEL manga- Yes, most of these just seem to be copycats of better titles we can find from Japan (mainly the OEL stuff). That doesn't make them awful by default, but the bad storytelling in most of them does. To this day, there are only three series in this category that I've found worth my time to read: Aoi House, Ragnarok, and Banya. review this photo!- I'm going to try this, too. 
This is a poster from the Japanese version of "March of the Penguins". In the image, the lead penguin, Kazuto (right) leads his girlfriend, Minako (center) and his rival, Mimi (left) to their school for ninja training. At the start of the movie, a group of evil seals attacks Antarctica and kills the parents of each of these little ones, and thus they set out to learn the ways of the Antarctic ninja so they can take revenge on the seals. I would not recommend this one to anyone. First reason is the story is horrible. Second reason is anyone actually viewing this movie is bound to die from multiple heart attacks induced by massive amounts of adorable. Though, if your tolerance for cute is so high that you could watch Azumanga Daioh, Strawberry Marshmallow, Di Gi Charat, and A Little Snow Fairy Sugar back-to-back, then you might be able to make it through without dying. I'll get my coat. YouTube- Like most internet-savvy fans nowadays, I watch fansubs (only keeping up with Code Geass, so far, because of my massive backlog of D.C.S.S., Macross Zero, Rozen Maiden, and more that I need to finish). However, I never watch a fansub via YouTube, unless it's a particular moment that I like, such as the opening of the Watanagashi chapter in Higurashi, or the "fingernail scene" in the Detective chapter. Why? The episodes are so low-quality that I can barely stand to watch them. Extremely low-quality is fine for fanmovies and short clips, but not for entire episodes. YouTube videos are also incredibly small. Compare screenshots* from Super Robot Wars Alpha 3; saved from YouTube** and Code Geass episode 10; torrented, and note that the SRW one is actually high-quality compared to the few others I've made note to save (mostly other SRW videos). In addition, from seeing clips from Haruhi and Higurashi, YouTube seems to automatically size clips to 4:3 screen ratio, so 16:9 series like the aforementioned are, for lack of a better term, squished. In addition to that, you have to either have each piece of a series loading at the same time, or load them as you watch them, which is idiotic. Yeah, there's no way I can justify watching anything over 5 minutes on YouTube. *both screens taken using VLC Media Player **all YouTube videos come out the same size exactly when saved |
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skaly
 Posts: 148 |
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Rant
I do think it is hard to truly value something if you're getting it for free. There is something about paying the money for a tangible product that elevates it somehow. I've actually been watching fansubs a lot less. I'll sample the show, and if I like it I will wait as patiently as I can for the American release. (Very difficult in the case of Tsubasa Chronicle and Nana, but so far so good.) |
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Julia-the-Great
 Posts: 328 |
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In reply to the filler discussions:
While I think it's true that anime "taking a break" for a few months would reduce the amount of filler episodes, it's not true that filler would disappear. Exhibit A: Tsubasa Chronicle This is one show that DOES take a break between seasons for a few months, but even with this stalling method, there was still an abhorrent amount of filler episodes in the second season. I look forward to the third season starting in April, because one of my favorite story-arcs in the manga is coming up, but I'm also dreading the amount of filler they're going to need to pad between storylines. I've been lead to believe that the third season is the last season (correct me if I'm wrong), and I also don't know how much more CLAMP plans on writing the manga, but I'll be disappointed if the series ends in an anime-only ending while the manga continues with stories we'll never see animated. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I do believe it said "fillers to the end" which would mean that the show goes into filler and never goes back to the story. That was the case with RK, but utterly false with the other two as Bleach just started back on the manga story and Naruto will in about a month. |
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