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Hey, Answerman! - Occupy Anime Street


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eyeresist



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 995
Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:19 pm Reply with quote
Eruanna wrote:
And that isnt even touching on the entire subject of how anime tends to protray female sexuality. DO they seriously not think that rape is a big deal?


So... have you seen Wings of Honneamise? Another show where the trivialisation of rape is just bizarre.

But this also relates to ideas of male sexual dominance which are in fact equally pervasive in the West. Plenty of idiots, male and female, think a "Real" man is always verging on rape.

I read an article about upskirting recently which said that in Japan you can't turn off the clicking sound on your camera, for just this reason.


Regarding the expense of anime in Japan, I am convinced, though completely without proof of course, that there must be some sort of underground sharing system amongst the otaku. Otherwise how could the stereotypical fan with a menial job in some money-sucking place like Tokyo afford more than one DVD a month?
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14796
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:46 pm Reply with quote
Because rape is not that serious in Japan. If there's a 1st-world country to do it, Japan would not be a bad choice. Rolling Eyes

Then: "the minimum prison term for rape is two years, lower than the five years for robbery. A minimum penalty of four years for gang rape is under consideration."

Seiichi Ota, a Japanese cabinet minister, was heavily criticized after he issued a statement regarding the case, "At least gang rapists are still vigorous. Isn't that at least a little closer to normal?"

The magazine quoted [Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo] Fukuda as saying: "There are women who look like they are saying 'Do it to me'. Those who have that kind of appearance are at fault, because men are black panthers."



leafy sea dragon wrote:

Still, the police are almost everywhere in American media. If it isn't about law enforcement itself, you can bet that the police, the FBI, or whatever equivalent there is in the story's setting can be seen apprehending the villain at the end.

Are the Japanese police just that much more passive? They're the one major profession where they can legally carry a gun. I'm sure there must be a lot of Japanese kids who'd like that kind of power.


That's because American law enforcers are generally seen as very capable, while Japanese law enforcers are seen pretty much as a joke with anything that requires serious work (e.g. beyond giving directions at a koban).

There are so many stories on J-news such as a J-policeman cut and running away scared from someone wielding a bat, J-police letting a suspect escape from custody and disappear at the scene of a serious crime, and of course hidden-camera panty-voyeurs turning out to be J-policemen themselves. Laughing


leafy sea dragon wrote:

Cutiebunny wrote:
If a woman is groped, raped or is the victim of any kind of sexual harrassment, the overwhelming view is that it is the woman's fault that it happened. She *must* have dressed provacatively, advertised her goods, asked for it, etc. Most Japanese women don't physically fight back, and that probably explains that, when some punk decided to grope me over there in the train that he was utterly shocked when I slugged him. I personally feel that if more women fought back that more men would think twice about molesting them.


Wow, that reminds me a LOT of that trial in Italy a few years ago where a woman was raped, and someone decided it was her fault because her jeans were too form-fitting.

I must wonder now: A lot of Japanese people come to America, often for college, on vacation, or to do business with American companies. Are there a lot of male visitors who try to grope women as much here as they do in Japan? Because I know the expected thing for an American woman to do is, well, slug him, or at least scream. Do Japanese people know about this? Do they see American women as dangerous and aggressive?


Yes. J-gropers typically avoid foreign Western girls (unless you look meek or weak), unlike J-girls who often just grin and bear it (the "shoganai" phenomenon).


Cutiebunny wrote:
leafy sea dragon wrote:
I must wonder now: A lot of Japanese people come to America, often for college, on vacation, or to do business with American companies. Are there a lot of male visitors who try to grope women as much here as they do in Japan? Because I know the expected thing for an American woman to do is, well, slug him, or at least scream. Do Japanese people know about this? Do they see American women as dangerous and aggressive?


Well, since I work with a lot of Japanese, I might be able to weigh in on this.

In Japan, there is a concept called "hesokuri" which basically is keeping a separate account of money for "fun". A lot of men do this in Japan - they funnel money from their job into a special account which they used to fund their extra curricular activities. Usually, the wives don't know about this account, and most of the time, there's no way to for a suspicious wife to find out about it.


They have to do that because typically the J-husband gives all his paycheck to his wife, who does all the household budget and then gives her husband a meager allowance just enough for food at work. There are many funny stories about J-wives expecting the same thing to happen (because that's always been the way it's done), but their foreigner husbands refusing to keep the status quo. Laughing


Cutiebunny wrote:

American and Western women are also viewed as aggressive in Japan. I think it's an unfair stereotype - Most women don't attack unless they've been physically harassed. But, the Japanese seem to love stereotypes, which probably explains the longevity that certain acts like "Hard Gay" have had in Japan.


Who is neither hard nor gay. In America, he would've been forced to apologize to gay people ASAP or lose his job (or even both). Laughing


eyeresist wrote:

I read an article about upskirting recently which said that in Japan you can't turn off the clicking sound on your camera, for just this reason.


For the phone cameras, yes. Laughing

Because there are many situations when you're holding your phone like tying your shoes, and the girl doesn't actually know you're taking a photo under her short short skirt. (With a real camera, it's obvious.)


eyeresist wrote:

Regarding the expense of anime in Japan, I am convinced, though completely without proof of course, that there must be some sort of underground sharing system amongst the otaku. Otherwise how could the stereotypical fan with a menial job in some money-sucking place like Tokyo afford more than one DVD a month?


No girlfriend to suck money out of their budget. Laughing
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:00 pm Reply with quote
cl-shojo wrote:
FIRST, I'd like to point out that her name is Tsukushi, not "Tsukino."

As a fan of Hana Yori Dango/Boys Over Flowers, and in particular Tsukasa's character, I thought I'd add my two cents. Tsukasa is at the beginning of the series, a jerk - that was the point of his character. But he was also not suppossed to be the main love interest for Tsukushi - the author originally wanted her to end up with Rui. But Tsukasa proved more popular, because he was so different from the generic 'mysterious pretty boy' love interests that are so common in shojo. And a huge part of Tsukasa's appeal is watching him become a better person and redeem himself - there are many times he risks his life for Tsukushi, which is a huge reason why people 'forgive' him and can root for him. Oh, and I thought I'd point out that (depending on the adaptation), Tsukasa told the gang of guys to drive her out of the school - he didn't specifically tell them to rape her.
I'm glad someone has cleared that up. I've only read the manga so is it the anime most are talking about here? There was that alleged rape incident in the manga, but it never occured thanks to Rui stepping in and rescuing Tsukushi and that is what that whole plot was all about, a vehicle for the author, who by the way is a woman as well, to have Rui ride in on to save the damsel in distress. What no one here seems to remember, (save for maybe cl-shojo here), is the incident where Tsukushi is spoiler[ chased through her school like a fox by a pack of hounds, and has to jump from a second story window only to be captured and literally tied to the rear bumper of a car and then dragged like a dead sheep down the road ripping her expensive uniform and her skin on the pavement. Later we find out it was a gang of students that thought they could get in the the "F4's" good side by doing this to her. Tsukasa had to be stopped by his comrads from throwing the driver off the roof of the school, which would have surely killed him, for what he did to Tsukushi. ] That to me was more disturbing then that "gang rape" that actually never happened. I loved Boys Over Flowers, spoiler[I just hated the cop-out ending. ] Wink
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Moonsaber



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 343
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Just two quick comments on this whole shebang, and I am sidestepping the Hana Yori Dango thing completely. Ok, no I am not. I have noticed that the Josei and some Shoujo artists like to use rape as a plot point, and then turn it romantic. And this is from women? I don't get it, honestly. Probably has a lot to do with how repressive Japanese culture still is to women.


Anyway, to good things:

Grolsch = Yum.

Oh, and on the artbooks, I picked up the Valkyria Chronicles guide and it is a big fat fantastic thing that I love love love.
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:50 am Reply with quote
Probably people have no idea what rape is and makes toons of stupid excuses like "she asked for that", "she enjoyed", OMG, he loves her" that should turn it into romantic point. What it worse, it works and readers usually get it.
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Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:27 am Reply with quote
Actually what I feel is being used is just the forcibly seductive attitude, which happens to invoke a sort of rapy presence. They want a guy that's more alpha, without being dangerous. And being the writer, they can push it that close. We're just used to a more toned down romance. Cause we have very thin lines between pushy and intrusive.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:45 pm Reply with quote
I don't know what the Grolsch in the US tastes like, but I know what it taste like here in the UK and to me it tastes like spoiler[badger piss ] Razz
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cl-shojo



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 70
Location: New York
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:56 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 said:
Quote:
I've only read the manga so is it the anime most are talking about here? There was that alleged rape incident in the manga, but it never occured thanks to Rui stepping in and rescuing Tsukushi and that is what that whole plot was all about, a vehicle for the author, who by the way is a woman as well, to have Rui ride in on to save the damsel in distress.


Yeah, this is the incident the person is talking about, it's been in basically every adaptation I've seen/read to serve as the initial reason why Tsukushi likes Rui. I think a lot of the people who were bothered by this scene and continued to hate Tsukasa is because they didn't read or watch the entire series.

And the later incident you mentioned did come to mind as one of Tsukasa's better moments in terms of endearing himself to Tsukushi spoiler[because he believed in her despite the photos], along with spoiler[when he saved her in Canada]. For these reasons, it's hard not to like Tsukasa (also because he's so goofy). And I totally agree with you about the ending. Wink
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:45 pm Reply with quote
I must say it's amusing seeing people use a fictional instance of rape to lampoon an entire country and make conjecture on their cultural views. Definitely no fault in that logic at all.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14796
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I don't know what the Grolsch in the US tastes like, but I know what it taste like here in the UK and to me it tastes like spoiler[badger piss ] Razz


How would you know how spoiler[badger piss] tastes? Laughing


TitanXL wrote:
I must say it's amusing seeing people use a fictional instance of rape to lampoon an entire country and make conjecture on their cultural views. Definitely no fault in that logic at all.


Check out my examples above. It's not an isolated incident.
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st_owly



Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 5234
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:11 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I don't know what the Grolsch in the US tastes like, but I know what it taste like here in the UK and to me it tastes like spoiler[badger piss ] Razz


This. So very true.
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INS Division 6
Subscriber



Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 91
Location: Philadelphia Area, PA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:07 pm Reply with quote
I'm surprised no one mentioned the book "Tokyo Vice". When the author was in Tokyo he said in the book that if you rape a woman and it's a first offense it's only a 200 dollar fine and your out the courthouse door. That was years ago, does anyone know what the penalty for rape is today in Japan. I guessing it's still just a monitary fine for a 1st offense. Maybe thats why you see rape prevelant in certain anime, because the characters may not care about a slap on the wrist penalty. Or maybe the creaters of the anime and manga are trying to draw attention through there art form to the fact that Japanese society has loose punishments for these law breakers and they are trying to reform the system?
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:28 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Check out my examples above. It's not an isolated incident.


Problem is you can find those kinds of reports in every country. Not really a good example of judging society as a whole.

All you can really do is look at crime rates as a whole. Japan has a much lower rape rate than the US does (and crime in general). So 'police presence' in the media will reflect that: the US is all about crime dramas on TV because crime is such a big problem in the US as opposed to Japan.

Just linking to a report where some cops screwed up or something isn't proof of much. How many incompetent police stories do you hear all the time on US local news? A lot.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:41 pm Reply with quote
It's why I'm really curious about this. Still, even fictional media from a country can reveal that country's attitudes, social issues, politics, and frustrations--in other words, how the populace is feeling.

As for news stuff on police, I live in Los Angeles, so I most often hear stories about police getting killed by criminals rather than any real act of incompetence, which happens about once every 3 days. It takes a lot of bravery to join the police force around here. (This is, of course, referring to today and not pre-1996, when various gangs owned the LAPD.)
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4290
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:18 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
All you can really do is look at crime rates as a whole. Japan has a much lower rape rate than the US does (and crime in general).


Just a thought. Is that really due to a lower rape rate or are women not as likely to report the crime in Japan?
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