Forum - View topicNEWS: New Survey: Reactions to Geneon
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Josh7289
Posts: 1252 |
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But it actually is logic. Just because you don't know a particular language is no reason to feel entitled to steal something. Just learn the language. It would do you some good. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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And how do you think one should manage to do that? To gain sufficient fluency to watch something without subtitles it would require most people to probably live in Japan for a few months. Even provided they could learn it without doing that, they would almost certainly have to use resources which cost money, money which would not be going to anime.
Second, even if you really like to call this "stealing" there isn't anything taken when someone copies. The word almost has no meaning unless it's combined with an effect that's negative (someone not buying because they copied, and therefore losing the company money). |
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_Earthwyrm_
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Is it okay to download episodes that are available to you on TV?
That's kind of hard for me to answer. No Anime is available to me on TV. 
I felt pretty conflicted throughout this survey actually. In general, I don't believe that it's okay to download licensed series; but, despite this, I do it myself. I think it's all about the downloader's attitude - it can be okay for person A and Person B to do it, and at the same time it can be wrong for persons C and D to do it. The strange difference between my answer and my own actions is based entirely upon the use of the word 'generally'. In my case, I'll never download a licensed series unless I'm interested in it from reading reviews, and then I'll buy it when it's released if I like it - this is okay, by my book. Making the occasional speculative purchase is advised too. (These are person A and B) But generally I believe that most people will download a licensed series and then never buy it, whether they like it or not - this is wrong, by my book. (These are persons C and D) Basically, if you're the type of person who will not buy a series on the basis that you already saw it fansubbed (the majority), you shouldn't be downloading it. If you're the type to buy a series regardless of whether or not you've seen it, or are the type who is more likely to buy a series that you've seen, (the minority) go ahead and download it. I guess, what I'm saying is that the issue isn't when you download, it's why you download and whether or not it affects your purchasing choices in a negative way. I've a feeling that I'm going to get slated for saying all this... 
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You've been turning nearly every thread you enter into a fansub debate, think you could cool it with this for a while? We know how you feel about copyright and fansubs. |
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Jih2
 Posts: 403 Location: East coast |
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You don't have a right to know how the series ends or to see the rest of the series at the expense of the hard working and underpaid Japanese creators. |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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To be honest, i'm more angry the survery was even posted. Theres always a cause to end fansub debates and then ANN goes an creates another one. Although people against it would bring it up anywhere even without a reason to do so.
That aside, I only had 3 Geneon shows I was buying. They cost too much. Plus, I felt their dvds were inferior (at the time) to other compaines. It seems almost like the only show they took real pride in was Hellsing OVA. But now, adv is skimping their dvds to the core, so i'm starting to get sick of them as well. I wish they'd ask which category of fansubs viewer the watcher falls into to. Do you buy after you watch? And Jih2 I do have the right to know how the series ends. I'm paying for it. So if I read the ending, does that make me a theif? Your logic is a double egded sword. Either way I'd know how the show ended. |
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Jih2
Posts: 403 Location: East coast |
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**Miss**
...paying for what? The cancelled discs that won't be released? You don't have a right to see something just because the company holding the license for your region isn't going to release the rest of the series. You either buy the R2 copies or you download and thus are viewing the material for free i.e. stealing. Anyway, on to me not being a total asswipe. I think that this downloading debacle that's been carving off profits for the music industry, the movie industry and the anime industry shows interesting things about the "mindless masses." Most people value music, movies and anime so much that they won't pay for it. They obviously attribute very little value to whatever it is they've downloaded because they couldn't wait for the release or couldn't shell out the relatively small amount of cash to buy the product they are now enjoying for free. I'm not sure if national governments need to crack down on illegal sharing of copyrighted material or not but it certainly is beginning to look that way. It's sad how the aforementioned art forms are seen by so many as something that's not really good, just something to kill time with. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Well, to be honest you are probably giving me the benefit of the doubt here. It's probably 100% lol. Sadly so many of the talkback issues end up like this for me as someone always ends up blaming fansubs or using the "stealing" rhetoric. I'll try to ignore this particular section of the forum for a week or two. Last edited by Xanas on Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lumcolette2006
 Posts: 43 |
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I hope Geneon comes back again because I wanna buy Zero No Tsukaima DVDs soooo badly!! -_- Also if they do come back someday, I hope they do english dub with that anime (Dubbing Company Ocean Group)! PLEASE COME BACK GENEON AND PLEASE GIVE US ANOTHER CHANCE TOO!!!
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britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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Are you telling me, if I buy a series and it stops I have to take the time to learn Japanese just to complete the series? Heres my solution: How about they not release the series until its completed. That way we're on the same level. You can watch the series completely and I won't have the chance to waste my money. When I start buying anything I expect the job to be finished. It's like if I paid someone to clean my house, they either finish the job completely, or give me my money back. |
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Jih2
Posts: 403 Location: East coast |
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Agreed.
But you didn't pay for the entire series. I agree that companies shouldn't just drop off but it happens and you're still stealing if you download it. It sucks, the only thing you cand do is pressure licensing companiesm, that is from the legal standpoint. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I would think that's the chances that not only you or I would be taking if we were to buy the DVDs, but also the chance that the company is taking. They pay to get, they do all the necessary work on it to make it available for fans in the R1 region. They put it on the shelves. There's also marketing. When they put it out and it doesn't sell, they lose money, but that's the choice that they made, and the chance that they took. |
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Sakurachan1
Posts: 42 |
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An open letter to ANN from a fan who is sick and tired of being treated like I am somehow responsible for this mess…
This debate is getting tired, old, and absolutely STUPID. Fansubs were around before the Great Anime Rush of the 1990's, and they DID NOT keep shows like DBZ, Kenshin, etc...from selling well. In fact, you could argue that the fansubs of those shows helped boost the industry. I saw a fansub of Kenshin and fell in love on the spot. I now own just about all the DVDs. Basically I bought what I wanted, and felt free to omit the parts of the series I didn’t need to revisit. Look guys, if a show STINKS I have no intention of buying it, nor am I just going to go out and buy a 50 disc set, just because somebody licensed the show. I like what I like, and I buy what I want to invest my time, energy, and money on – period. To be perfectly candid here, I keep getting the sense that the industry is punishing fans for watching fansubs. We have become the bad guys in a war that shouldn’t really exist to begin with. Do I support bootleg rings, not at all, and I draw a distinction between bootleggers and fansubers. The average Fansuber is just a regular fan, he or she might even be an above average language student looking to gain an edge by working on translation. I doubt the folks at any of the more well known sub groups wants to put Greg Ayers out of a job, or take food off Gen Fukunaga’s table. So to suggest there is anything nefarious behind fansubs is just plain silly. It’s time for everyone involved to step up and be accountable. Do I take responsibility for being a part of the fansub problem? Yep, and I do so proudly. I get my fix of Naruto and Bleach every week, I’m even hooked on Gundam 00 (I can’t wait for DVD’s to drop!) In fact, Fansubs saved me, and my wallet, on numerous occasions. They kept me from buying shows like Basilisk, Black Cat, Air Gear, E's Otherwise, Getbackers, etc…(Please do not start with me. if you liked any of the above mentioned shows that’s ok, I’m happy for you, but I didn’t.) Let’s get real here for a minuet-the Anime industry in the US has become so bloated, and so full of itself that an implosion was bound to happen. Did we really need two dedicated Anime networks from two separate competitors? We have Cartoon Network, and the folks there have always given Anime a shot – why not pool the resources, and put together a solid block of programming that would showcase the best series from all the major US distro companies…Instead, millions of dollars were pumped into separate linear networks that turned into a waste. Then there is the case of dubs gone wild- folks I love watching a good dub, and I am glad that Anime has allowed some very talented actors to get the recognition they deserve. However, the money being spent on English voice talent for a series that is NEVER going to see a US broadcast could be spent elsewhere. Meaning –don’t spend the money to dub it, if it ain’t gonna be on TV. I’m good with the original language track – it is called Japanese Anime. Lastly, not every series that gets put on TV in Japan is worth the money it takes to bring it across the Pacific, but that’s just common business sense. I mean honestly, most of the series picked up for distro here in the states over the past two years were just BAD. There is no rule stating that Ninjas, and Samurai will equal good writing, or quality production. Also there is no rule stating that shows built around big robots, and girls with equally big mouths and chests, are entertaining, or funny for that matter. The bottom line is, I will open my wallet when I choose to do so, and I will watch fansubs when I choose to do so. If something sparks my interest enough, I will invest in it once it gets picked up. I use my iMac for other things too, and have no need for a dedicated Anime server, when I’ve got a TV and DVD player. Let’s stop playing this ridiculous blame game, and start looking for solutions. The average hardcore Anime fan has been around for years-we are not in our teens-and we know what we want. It’s time for the industry to take five seconds to get over itself, and then listen. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6874 Location: Kazune City |
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As for the Geneon questions, if it wasn't okay before the shutdown, it's not okay after the shutdown. Yes, I do some of these "not okay" things, but at least I'm not kidding myself. Although now that I think about it, I don't think I've DLed any of Geneon's halted series since the shutdown...but that's because prior to the shutdown, I'd already DLed pretty much everything I was interested in. |
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Mugen1style
Posts: 281 Location: North of the wall |
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I am very disappointed by Geneons demise. I was going to buy at least five of there titles. This has affected my anime purchasing across the board. No longer do I have faith that a show will get a full releases . So where does this leave me besides screwed?, I guess the only thing I can do is wait for box sets and hope like hell that someone picks up those titles that Geneon did not fin. Geneon was mismanaged to be sure other companies who dub seem to be able to make it work and the other companies also have to deal with fansubs ... do they like to make more money of course who wouldn't? I am taking a step back and will be waiting till they get there damn business models straitened out. WTF
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