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Have you ever had an anime ruined for you because of over-zealous fans?


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bllanosr



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:20 am Reply with quote
Like one poster said, most of my spoilers are my own doing by reading ahead on the manga. A perfect example of this is Mirai Nikki. I already know the main twist and ending of the story but still continue to watch the anime. Does it affect it? Yes, it doesn't have the same suspense that it had before. I'm glad that Another doesn't have a manga (or I don't know of it), since I would be all over that manga right now.

Raftina wrote:
The suggestion "stay out of threads that may contain spoilers" is incorrect. It goes against the nature of dedicated title discussion threads, and it goes against the nature of anime discussion communities. It is such poor advice because it fails to take into account common sources of spoilers.


I'm sorry but this is biggest junk of rhetoric I have ever seen on this forum. You state that the arguement to "stay out of threads that may contain spoilers" is incorrect and state "because it fails to take into account common sources of spoilers." Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're going to argue that, then shouldn't you explicitly state what are the common sources of spoilers other than threads? All your listed examples all mention threads. You, yourself, state that most of the spoilers you came across is due to "reading" [I only assume they are from threads] them because you had no initial interest in the anime. So if most of the spoilers you encountered were read, then what exactly is the most common source of spoilers? I really hope you're not going to state anime articles like that previous example from another poster.

If anything, the arguement to "stay out of threads that may contain spoilers" is actually correct because it is an absolute. If you don't read threads that may contain spoilers, then you certainly won't get it through that way. It's not the best solution but it is correct. The real issue with that arguement is that staying out threads that may contain spoilers is highly unavoidable and unreasonable due to our human nature to join a discussion about a topic that interests us. Since Raftina likes to use "nature" a lot, it is also human nature for a person to accidently blurt out stuff or accidently (or purposely) break the rules once in a while. That was the whole point of moderators.

I'm sorry this isn't an attack on you, but I had to respond since I had to read your post 3 times, trying to see if I missed something about what the common sources were and just had to point that out.

As for Rukia's little snide respond that spoiler tags are there for a reason could be used against Rukia as well - that's what moderators are there for. Gee, I wonder why the world doesn't run so smoothly, shouldn't people follow the rules at all times and be considerate? I'm sorry, but be realistic. I think most spoilers were posted by accident. Don't have stats to back that up, but when the moderators reprimand the offender, the offender usually replies it was done by accident or they unknowingly forgot to tag it. That's the nature of human beings. It's like sending an e-mail without the attachment. It happens all the time. I'm sure the person is not just trying to trick the person they had sent the attachment to frustrate them.

Not that this is any kind of proof or anything, but I have never heard of Madoka Magica and never read a thread about it. I haven't been spoiled about watching this anime! Seems like those overzealous fans completely missed me. In fact, some if not most of these animes that you guys always mention I know very little about because I only read what's in the encyclopedia and if that doesn't interest me I don't bother reading threads about it or watching it. So I can definetely say I don't know a thing about Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis, Gundam Seed or Air and probably will never come across a spoiler about it. By the way, I have the complete series of Air, but dropped the series after the first episode. Good thing it only cost $14. I also recently ordered the complete Gundam Seed series as well and just waiting for it to arrive. Don't know anything about it since I don't read threads about it. People talk to me about it, but I just tune them out since I can't really talk about something I haven't seen as well.
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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:12 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Dessa wrote:
I'm interested in seeing it. Why haven't I? Because it's not legally available to watch in the US. As soon as it goes up on a streaming site, I'll be able to watch it. So yes, there is a real reason for someone interested in it to not have seen it.


Then how would you be spoiled unless you went into talkback threads about the series or related subjects about that series? Short of just talking about your new car you bought and someone coming in to spoil it, it seems a bit easy to avoid. In that case, yeah, it sucks, but nothing you can really do about it and it happens in every fandom. The huge Harry Potter leak meme a few years back is just one major example.


Who said I'd been spoiled on Madoka? You specifically said that there was no reason someone interested in the show wouldn't have seen it. I gave my reasons I haven't seen it. For the record, I was spoiled on it, because a friend of mine told me in person how it ended, while we were discussing an unrelated series.

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And honestly, I don't believe in a "statute" of spoiler territory. Yes, there are places which will have spoilers (discussion threads, etc) that should be avoided, but there's also common courtesy. Just the other night, I was in a chat room for a game I'm in, and I mentioned where I was at in G Gundam. Someone proceeded to try to discuss things that happen later, and I said to stop, because I'm not there yet, and I haven't seen the series before. When they tried to argue, the rest of the chat jumped on them. There's no "statute" when someone flat-out says they haven't seen something and don't want spoilers. It's all about respect.


That's a bit unreasonable to me.. I think at this point if you don't know who Darth Vader's true identity is then if they haven't seen any Star Wars up to now, chances are the don't care about Star Wars enough to care. Same with what Sasuke does at the end of part 1 of Naruto. That's such a big part of Naruto that going into any Naruto thread to discuss the series it's pretty much an unwritten given you at least know that. A few episodes/chapter grace period is what I usually give in talk-back threads.

Sure, as mentioned, new fans and people are born all the time so it's new to them, but there's also the idea of pop culture. Everyone makes jokes and parodies of Darth Vader and the like. Even if you don't watch Star Wars you probably know from parodies done in other shows.

That, and chances are new fans going back to watch older stuff isn't as likely. I see anime as such a current medium. We get like 100 shows a year, plus OVAs and movies. In this day and age, Madoka is kind of old. I suppose people waiting for R1 released haven't seen it, but to be brutally honest, those people are in the minority, and it's a bit of a danger when it comes to doing that. Funi is just now releasing B Gata H Kei, which is two years old at this point, and people who've seen it have said what they wanted and moved on. R1 viewers might see it for the first time, but at the same time, R1 releases of short 13 episode shows come out all at once.. so it's not like each week a new event happens. It's a bit tricky, I suppose. Maybe a new talkback thread for R1 releases is in order, but until you see it, going into a thread about Madoka or whatever seems like a no-brainer.


I'm not sure where you get this assumption that I'm going into discussion threads for things and complaining about spoilers. My example was a chat room for an LJRP I'm in, where I mentioned I was watching a series and where I was at (as there are many fans of the series in the game, we are a SRW-based game), and someone proceeded to start describing events clearly after the point I was at.

No, I'm not saying that things that could be considered spoilers should never be discussed. But as soon as it's apparent that someone in the discussion doesn't know them and doesn't want to know them before experiencing them for themselves, they should be dropped and not brought up. Personally, I was born in 1982, and I never saw the Star Wars movies until I was in high school. I would have been quite pissed if someone had spoiled me, because there's no reason to bring something like that up in casual conversation.

No one here is saying that discussion threads for series/subjects need to be censored for spoilers. Yes, if you go into a discussion thread for a series you haven't seen, spoilers are likely. That's why you shouldn't go into it without being aware of this.

However, that doesn't mean that spoilers should go unmarked in threads outside of that (for example, the product thread mentioned). Or, related, if a discussion thread is for an adaptation or delayed version (anime based off a manga/novel, airing-on-tv dub of a show, etc), then no, people shouldn't be posting unmarked spoilers past the point where the adaptation/delayed version/etc is at. In the Persona 4 Animation thread, we're careful to spoiler-mark anything from further in the game. And Fate/Zero was brought up earlier, people shouldn't be posting spoilers from the novel without tagging them. Or if there's a discussion thread for the episodes of Bleach on [adult swim] right now, then people shouldn't be posting spoilers from the current Japanese episodes or manga chapters.

There's a large difference in going somewhere that is likely to be discussing "current*" events when you're not caught up, and going somewhere and having a casual conversation where someone suddenly decides to discuss spoilers with no warning, where said spoilers aren't even relevant to the discussion.

[*"Current" being relative to the discussion at hand, not necessarily the newest information available. Like the current episode of an anime, not the manga it's based off of, in an anime discussion thread.]
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:26 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
For the record, I was spoiled on it, because a friend of mine told me in person how it ended, while we were discussing an unrelated series.


A good friend helps you move house.

A great friend helps you to bury the body.

A wonderful friend however knows to STFU and avoid spilling the beans for series and movies you have yet to watch.
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EricJ



Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:03 am Reply with quote
Y'know, in another lifetime, in another universe, I might have happened upon Neon Genesis Evangelion by sheer accident, and liked it?

(thinks)

...Nahh, I doubt it. Confused
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:51 am Reply with quote
Like most discussions of spoilage, there really are very few practical suggestions offered here besides the obvious one of avoiding threads where spoilers are likely to appear. In my mind there are a few absolutes when it comes to discussing shows in any context where it's likely a number of readers will have no prior knowledge of the plot.

1) It's never okay to talk about a character's death. Threads about deaths need to be marked as potential spoilers in their titles.

2) It's never okay for manga readers to talk about upcoming events in an anime series. This is a common problem in threads about popular adaptations. One well-known site that cannot be named here maintains parallel anime and manga threads for precisely this reason. Even then it's hard to keep the manga readers in line.

3) Don't hesitate to point out spoilage to the moderators. Even if you've been spoiled you can help reduce the "collateral damage" to other members.

Some places are more dangerous than others in my mind. YouTube has no moderation, so I'd avoid reading any of the comments there. Some sites like this and the one-that-cannot-be-named have intensive moderation and a serious and committed membership. On sites like these most spoilage is the result of commenting before thinking and can usually be fixed by reporting the post to the moderators.

Being spoiled by discussions in unrelated places like conversations is unfortunate, but there isn't much any of us can do about that. In a world where it often seems few people think before speaking, you and your powers of persuasion are your only defenses against spoilage.

I do have one suggestion for the moderators, though. Not every news item needs to have a discussion thread, especially when it's pretty obvious it will be a magnet for spoilers. I knew right away what to expect in the Mami cake thread, and the moderators should have been able to predict that as well. The cake was cute, but providing a discussion thread about it was unwise.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4420
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:05 am Reply with quote
Every show on Adult Swim Action for the last six years.
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LKK



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 426
Location: Virginia, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:00 am Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
2) It's never okay for manga readers to talk about upcoming events in an anime series. This is a common problem in threads about popular adaptations. One well-known site that cannot be named here maintains parallel anime and manga threads for precisely this reason. Even then it's hard to keep the manga readers in line.

In addition to manga readers, I would include game players and novel readers in this category.

*grumbles about how many Persona 4 animation twists have been spoiled by overenthusiastic P4 game players*
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Konopan



Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 397
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
What's the point of watching the show when nothing is new?


But there's never anything new.
What really matters is execution.

Knowing something like "Charmuro Bidanjeena dies halfway through Armored Popemobile Mackloss 5.8 and then a new cast of main characters is introduced" or "Jesus is the son of Him" shouldn't stop you from wanting to watch the series if you honestly had an interest in it in the first place. If anything, wouldn't you want to know how it happened? How it was presented?

Why make a thread about spoilers and not title it so? This thread seems to have very little with "over-zealous" fans, rather than "excessively open-mouthed fans".

spoiler[Personally speaking, "zealous" Madoka fans would be more like those who argue over Sayaka's/Homura's actions, Mami's/Madoka's ineffectualness, or just go KYOUKO/KYUBEY/MADOKA'S MOM/GREEN MUGI BEST CHARACTER fifty times in a row until no one wants to argue with them.]
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2397
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:12 pm Reply with quote
I see a few people putting more blame on one side than the other. As I see it, it is what it is, and we can't change everything, but if we care enough as a collective culture, we can work things out better for the future:

1) People who are currently watching a series, be warned of possible spoilers--if possible, you can try to finish the series ASAP or be more careful if you're watching at a slower pace. You need to remind yourself that you're hitting dangerous ground when watching a video, reading a topic, or hanging out around someone who has seen it before. Sometimes, you will be spoiled anyway. That, of course, is not the fault of the series, so be aware of that fact when critiquing the show.

2) People posting about a series, whether you realize it or not, you are risking spoiling other peoples' enjoyment of the series. If you like the series and are hoping others will like it, too, you should probably say the minimum you need to say to get your point across, and use whatever spoiler tags or markers you can to clearly identify spoilers in your discussions. Otherwise, you might just ruin the experience of the other person.

These kinds of things should be common sense, but making sure to point them out before starting a discussion might cut down on the number of people who spoil themselves/othes, even by accident.
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