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Shelf Life - The Lonely Hearts Club


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crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2893
Location: California
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:19 am Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
I tried watching some episodes of Natsume's Book of Friends, but it wasn't for me... the pace was too slow. I've only seen five episodes of Mushi-Shi and it was too slow for me, too, but I know a lot of people like it. I recognize that both are quality shows too slow for me to watch.


Whoops! And now that I look at the article, I remember reading this in the past. I'm sure I commented on the post too, haha. Forgetful me.

I suppose the pacing may not be for everyone since most of the episodes are standalone stories, but once Natori and the exorcists are introduced, a larger plot becomes apparent and this is carried into the third and fourth seasons.

I hope you'll consider giving the series another try, perhaps starting with the third season where Matoba is introduced. The episodes become less.... episodic... as the series continues.
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Sea Lion



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Erin Finnegan wrote:
the finer details of the game still allude me.


Elude, dear. The word you're searching for is elude -- unless you meant to say the game reminds you of something else.

As I'm still slogging through Bleach, I really don't have the energy to devote to another gigantic neverending story like One Piece. I may check out Chihayafuru, though.
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ShinnFlowen



Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:52 pm Reply with quote
I understand how you may be critical of kobato, but I do not agree with everyone when they say Chihayafuru is an amazing sport/romance series. The relationships maybe interesting, but the actual game play is boring, the poem songs are atrocious to hear, and it is mostly a memorization game.

The reviewer ERIN was also bashing YU-GI-OH when the game itself is far more entertaining and requires much more skill in building your deck as well as setting up combos. You can OTK *one turn kill an opponent in YUGIOH, making every move you make important.

The YU-GI-OH shows themselves WOULD benefit from having a great characters like in Chihayafuru so I ask myself couldn't a show like Chihayafuru been MUCH better to watch if it had a better card game to watch? Yugioh has local tournaments, regionals, and championships in North America/Europe/Japan.

The reviewer could easily understand the basics of the card game with some quick searches on google, which makes stating not knowing how the game basically works is not realistic.
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Saffire



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1256
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:24 pm Reply with quote
ShinnFlowen wrote:
I understand how you may be critical of kobato, but I do not agree with everyone when they say Chihayafuru is an amazing sport/romance series. The relationships maybe interesting, but the actual game play is boring, the poem songs are atrocious to hear, and it is mostly a memorization game.

The reviewer ERIN was also bashing YU-GI-OH when the game itself is far more entertaining and requires much more skill in building your deck as well as setting up combos. You can OTK *one turn kill an opponent in YUGIOH, making every move you make important.
You didn't really read what she wrote, did you. At no point does she write a single negative word (or any word at all) about Yugioh as a game; she simply mentions the anime exists to sell cards. Comparing the two games is futile because they're completely different. Of course YGO requires more skill in deckbuilding, considering that you can't do it at all in karuta.

If you don't like karuta, that's fine, but at least ground your complaints in reality.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:54 pm Reply with quote
ShinnFlowen wrote:
The reviewer ERIN was also bashing YU-GI-OH when the game itself is far more entertaining and requires much more skill in building your deck as well as setting up combos. You can OTK *one turn kill an opponent in YUGIOH, making every move you make important..

I wasn't bashing YuGiOh, I actually like YuGiOh. I even saw the first movie in a theater, and enjoyed it!

That said I have never played the card game. I don't care for games where you're rewarded for spending the most money in order to win (like Heroclix, although I did enjoy a few games of it in my day).

ShinnFlowen wrote:
The YU-GI-OH shows themselves WOULD benefit from having a great characters like in Chihayafuru so I ask myself couldn't a show like Chihayafuru been MUCH better to watch if it had a better card game to watch? Yugioh has local tournaments, regionals, and championships in North America/Europe/Japan. .

Man, that's a tough position if you're arguing that YuGiOh is better than karuta because it's played more widely. It's been around for what, 13 years? Karuta has been around for at least 100 years. It's strictly a Japanese game, but it's also a cultural institution. YuGiOh is pop culture ephemera that'll eventually die out, because the game itself is strictly controlled by license holders. I think karuta is beyond that kind of licensing...

ShinnFlowen wrote:
The reviewer could easily understand the basics of the card game with some quick searches on google, which makes stating not knowing how the game basically works is not realistic.

I have learned the basics by reading wikipedia and googling for it, it's the finer details that I don't get, specifically about passing cards around at the end. I also don't really get why someone who has memorized all 100 poems couldn't just take a card right as the reader reads the first part. It's the sort of thing where if I actually played the game, I'm sure I could understand the rules better (same goes for YuGiOh).
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Julia-the-Great



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 328
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:57 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:

I have learned the basics by reading wikipedia and googling for it, it's the finer details that I don't get, specifically about passing cards around at the end. I also don't really get why someone who has memorized all 100 poems couldn't just take a card right as the reader reads the first part. It's the sort of thing where if I actually played the game, I'm sure I could understand the rules better (same goes for YuGiOh).

I've been watching every episode as it comes out, and I think I have somewhat of an answer for your questions (the exact same questions I was having when I was around episode 12 or so). The moving the cards around thing, at least from what I can gather, is that when you take a card on your opponent's side, you move one of the cards from your side over to theirs. The point of the game is to be the first person to have no remaining cards on your side. Under what circumstances you're allowed to move cards around on your own side, I'm still not entirely clear.

As for why someone who has memorized all 100 poems can't just take a card right as the reader reads the card, they repeatedly make a point of telling us that there are several poems that start with the same syllables or words, so in order to be sure which poem it is, you have to wait until a certain point, as in there would be several "The" cards and you have to wait until "The Cloud" or "The River" etc is read to be sure, and sometimes there might be several "The Cloud" cards and you have to wait until "The Cloud is". If you react too fast and hit the wrong "The Cloud" card, you take a fault, which I think involves your opponent moving one of their cards to your side. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that)

It gets even more complicated when you find out there are "Dead" cards that the reader sometimes reads to fool the players, cards that don't have a match in the game.

By Episode 19, I THINK I know enough of the rules that I could play a REALLY slow game of Karuta... if Karuta was in English and I took the time to memorize all the cards... REALLY slow game...
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crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2893
Location: California
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:23 pm Reply with quote
Julia-the-Great wrote:
As for why someone who has memorized all 100 poems can't just take a card right as the reader reads the card, they repeatedly make a point of telling us that there are several poems that start with the same syllables or words, so in order to be sure which poem it is, you have to wait until a certain point, as in there would be several "The" cards and you have to wait until "The Cloud" or "The River" etc is read to be sure, and sometimes there might be several "The Cloud" cards and you have to wait until "The Cloud is". If you react too fast and hit the wrong "The Cloud" card, you take a fault, which I think involves your opponent moving one of their cards to your side. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that)


As Julia mentioned, there are cards that start off similarly so you can't take the card until you're sure which one is being read. Sometimes they read cards that are not in play as well.

FYI, what is read and what is written on the card is different. They read the first part of the poem and the second part of the poem is written on the card, so you definitely need to have mastered the memorization of the poems.
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ShinnFlowen



Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 141
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:17 am Reply with quote
I think I wouldn't take things the wrong way if Erin just add an extra word or two to help explain her thoughts in her reviews because I clearly mistook her idea of what she meant by not understanding Karuta.

Making a negative comparison that wasn't necessary as the review was good enough, it indirectly shows that you may dislike something such as YUGIOH. Anyway I found the review and your reply great!
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:33 pm Reply with quote
GokuMew2 wrote:
FYI, what is read and what is written on the card is different. They read the first part of the poem and the second part of the poem is written on the card, so you definitely need to have mastered the memorization of the poems.

Yes, that much is obvious from episode one or two...

Julia-the-Great wrote:
The moving the cards around thing, at least from what I can gather, is that when you take a card on your opponent's side, you move one of the cards from your side over to theirs... Under what circumstances you're allowed to move cards around on your own side, I'm still not entirely clear.

See THAT's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And what's up with "Double Faults"?

Julia-the-Great wrote:
As for why someone who has memorized all 100 poems can't just take a card right as the reader reads the card, they repeatedly make a point of telling us that there are several poems that start with the same syllables or words, so in order to be sure which poem it is, you have to wait until a certain point, as in there would be several "The" cards and you have to wait until "The Cloud" or "The River" etc is read to be sure, and sometimes there might be several "The Cloud" cards and you have to wait until "The Cloud is". If you react too fast and hit the wrong "The Cloud" card, you take a fault, which I think involves your opponent moving one of their cards to your side. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that)

OK, it kind of makes sense, but... are these poems all extremely similar? Here's the Chihaya poem they talk about a lot:

Translation from http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-japanese?specfile=/web/data/japanese/search/japanese.o2w&act=text&lang=&offset=259768&textreg=1&query=chihaya&query2=&id=VarHyak wrote:
Chihayaburu
Kamiyo mo kikazu
Tatsuta-gawa
Kara kurenai ni
Mizu kukuru to wa

Even when the gods
Held sway in the ancient days,
I have never heard
That water gleamed with autumn red
As it does in Tatta's stream

Let's say the first two lines are read by the reader, "Even when the gods, Held sway in the ancient days," - do you mean to tell me two or more poems start off with those two lines? I understand that lots of the matching cards might start with "I," but why can't you grab a card right away after "Even when the gods," is read, like, before the reader gets to "Held sway in ancient days,"...?
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Saffire



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1256
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:11 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Julia-the-Great wrote:
The moving the cards around thing, at least from what I can gather, is that when you take a card on your opponent's side, you move one of the cards from your side over to theirs... Under what circumstances you're allowed to move cards around on your own side, I'm still not entirely clear.

See THAT's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And what's up with "Double Faults"?
A fault is when you touch a card that isn't in the correct territory. So, if you grab a card on your side and the correct card is on the opponent's side, that's a fault. A double fault is if you commit a fault, and at the same time, your opponent touches the correct card. Note that this means that if you touch a card in the correct territory that isn't the correct card, there's no penalty (which is why people tend to knock away multiple cards when taking on their own side). You can rearrange your own cards as much as you like, so long as you indicate that you're doing it.

As for the readings, for example, there's three cards in karuta that start with "chi" but only one that's "chiha", which makes it a "second syllable" card. You can take a card as soon as you want though; most cards are taken before the first line has been read. Chihaya regularly takes the Chihayafuru card on the second syllable. The proctor does have to read the whole card, which might be what's confusing you?
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