×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
James S.



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:28 pm Reply with quote
Finally, caught up with 8, 9, and 10, it was a great showing. Turning Point 1 was great but the Eris fantasy before the actual event was unnecessary. The show really nailed making Hitogami look unsettling, was that still 2D animation? I thought they used 3D there but that's really amazing if not. While they did good with the explanation of the spears of the Superd, they left one critically important detail: Superd spears are their tails that fall off after reaching adulthood. When Ruijerd calls it their soul, it's literally the last remainder of a Superd after they die.

As for 10, I really don't understand why Rudy disguised himself only to do away with it later, but it probably did make more of an impact. Nokopara looks more unsettling than in the novels ironically enough, and I love how they've handled the different languages so far.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3680
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:53 pm Reply with quote
Kibako wrote:

I would be mad too if a random guy came and ripped the coat I got from my gf. And she is a violent type of girl so that kind of action is understandable.


Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Beating someone half to death (if not further if Rudy hadn't stopped her) over a piece of clothing is not an "understandable" reaction. A single punch would have been expected I suppose, but this would be the type of thing that would make you worry about a person
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:07 pm Reply with quote
I just realised something about this ep tat stuck out and I couldn't figure why.

Is there Rice and Beef in this world? I think I remmember seeing cows but not rice. His monolouge about wanting it felt strange, cause he definitely haven't eaten it in the past 10 years. I do feel sometimes like somehow like the first 10 years of his life is almost strangely static and almost skipped over somehow despite all that happens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James S.



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:39 am Reply with quote
helln00 wrote:
I just realised something about this ep tat stuck out and I couldn't figure why.

Is there Rice and Beef in this world? I think I remmember seeing cows but not rice. His monolouge about wanting it felt strange, cause he definitely haven't eaten it in the past 10 years. I do feel sometimes like somehow like the first 10 years of his life is almost strangely static and almost skipped over somehow despite all that happens.

Yes to the cows not really to the rice. IIRC there's a grain similar to rice, though I can't remember if it was close to how unprocessed rice is or closer to brown rice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:15 am Reply with quote
TheWa_rudo wrote:


It means that you show things without the the presentation distorcing much the scene one way or the other, it lets the viewer pass the jugdement.
Like when some putting a x scene in an exagerated way like in many anime in a way that it's far enough from reality to take seriously.

Or, with an example, it would be like watching "Friends" without the background laughs where the scenes become downright creepy.
The character inside may be trying to be funny, but without the laughs to tell how we should think of the scene, we have the freedom to see for what it is.

Another example are the cases when an story shows all the actions of seomeone as bad or in a bad light, only to reveal later that they were innocent. But the original scene itself passes the jugdment for us that those actions were evil. Like that old guy home alone.


Again I think there is a flaw in your logic, all the things you have listed is the framing of a story, storytellers are there to tell you the story they want to tell you, and you have the freedom to believe their story or not. If it is needed that the storyteller not tell the story that they want to tell you and you are the one deciding the story for yourself then you are not reading a story. You don't need to be granted the space to not believe the story, that exists already.


TheWa_rudo wrote:

That's the important part, it shows in a way that there is no message. It simply is and happens. We know that it's bad and the anime does not try to hide it.

But the fact that it simply is is in and of itself a message. Again maybe this isnt your way of viewing things but there is no such thing as not having a message in a story since it has to be decided to be that way. And its not about what the viewer thinks cause its about the story that the creators want to tell, saying that other people will view it differently is sort of the "its just a prank bruv" defense


TheWa_rudo wrote:

Maybe that's because I have the context of the original novels. He beats himself up quite a bit later for some of his actions, at times with some of the very arguments other people use.
And in the novel he is ALWAYS self-reflecting about his mistakes and opinions. A smaller example is in Vol. 1 when he initially blames most of the reasons he never left home after becoming a hikikomori on his parents, and later admiting it was mostly his own. And he is always in this flux.
So when he goes in his into his most disgusting antics, the main reaction that follows the "wtf is he doing?" is of "when will he fix that as well" instead of of the pure wtf.


I am then just going to note it again that its not in the anime.

TheWa_rudo wrote:

I see that as more of there is no problem being a pervert, the problem is how you express this.
Also, Rudeus will keep being a pervert and what will change is that he will stop expressing that in an unhealthy and damaging way.

Yeah but the author didn't say that. And there is nothing wrong with a person being a pervert, and in a way being a pervert has nothing to do with being a serious and good person, they are just not related to each other. The fact that the author links those two as two opposing sides is a problem for the story.

TheWa_rudo wrote:

The best bet I have for the why the anime did that is that japan does not see sexual things in media with the same in the same most of the west does. So it didn't go over the line over there.
That scene from EP.8 was the make or brake for me in the novel. If wasn't for his self torturing right after I would have probable dropped it. But in the novel he also has more bad traits to fix..


Sure but the author also has full control over the anime project(this studio was created specifically for it) and as noted before had no problem with showing actual crotch grabbing and but not the self reflection after the fact. And to your point about japanese not seeing sexual things in anime......eh what do you mean exactly? this is the country that showed the toothbrush scene, Interspecies Reviewer, Kuzu no Honkai, Aku no Hana( which also had teenage rape), Cross Ange( all the rapes) and currently Redo.

helln00 wrote:

He is not a genius. He had years and years of studying magic and that was mostly the only thing he had to do since he couldn't leave his home. He has more magical capacity and his knowledge from past life, but that's all. During all these years he is still stuck on the same level he was when he graduated from roxy. And in terms of battle potencial he couldnt defeat even a pair of bandits with real experience.


Dude it has been only 10 years, he started reading when he was like 2-3, and managed to blast a hole through his house at the age of like 5 and after training with Roxy summoned a giant storm, not including the fact that he doesn't need incantation and like had to choose to use incantation to make it more normal. Even in the first ep when he commented on reading, there was even a joke that he is a genius, not also including learning another new language just from reading the books. Its like if a kid got a chemistry set one day and then in less then a year had made plastic explosives. Its like hardwork if the work was easy. He isn't completely OP but thats like saying he's not 1st in the world, he is only number 5.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2868
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:30 am Reply with quote
errr. no, that is why silphie was shown using chantless magic, to show that eudy iw not special in that way. he only has his memories of his previous life, but he has no advantage over the world natives besides that.

helln00 wrote:
I just realised something about this ep tat stuck out and I couldn't figure why.

Is there Rice and Beef in this world? I think I remmember seeing cows but not rice. His monolouge about wanting it felt strange, cause he definitely haven't eaten it in the past 10 years. I do feel sometimes like somehow like the first 10 years of his life is almost strangely static and almost skipped over somehow despite all that happens.


its a side quest. there is a fun theory about the mushoten world that uses that sidequest . anyway, at this point one of rudeus monologues shows that he wants to eat tamagokake gohan, which is hot rice with an egg cracked on top of it and aome soy sauce added for flavour. might be a lampshading in how in several isekai the average japanese is treated as a super good chef, starting with shield hero and having the one with cheap bar food as the worse offender. the only reason i am not sure its making fun of them is that mushoten might be older than the trope.

they have kept on skipping showing the world map, for a sense of scale, i am putting it in spoilers in case the anime want to make this a surprise as i am noticing is moving some events to episode 11, probably to provide a more interesting way to end the coeur.
spoiler[
imagine an earth map centered on japan, the human continent is eurasia, right now they are in new york and they will have to travel all the way back to paris, passing thru southamerica.]

loved how the eris reaction played out, at first i was pissed of with her losing her temper so easily, the i remembered she does not speak the language, so from her pov she was just chilling and this dude just assaults her out of nowhere.

as a novel reader i also apreciate going a second time thru this. like now i can figure out why the humangod wants rudeus to help the Supard, and that line about eris wanting to slay a dragon holds a very different meaning even for manga readers.


[/spoiler]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:10 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
errr. no, that is why silphie was shown using chantless magic, to show that eudy iw not special in that way. he only has his memories of his previous life, but he has no advantage over the world natives besides that.


When did this happen? I dont remember seeing this so far?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OtherSideofSky





PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:27 pm Reply with quote
helln00 wrote:
maximilianjenus wrote:
errr. no, that is why silphie was shown using chantless magic, to show that eudy iw not special in that way. he only has his memories of his previous life, but he has no advantage over the world natives besides that.


When did this happen? I dont remember seeing this so far?

Episode 3. It's a gag where Rudeus is teaching Sylphie. He thinks it would be nice if it was a special thing only he can do, then she immediately figures it out and runs around casting without incantations.
Additional LN context: spoiler[It was cut from the anime, but Roxy mentions in book 1 that incantation-less casting is a known thing, but is generally thought to be something only a few of the most advanced mages can do. Roxy learns to at least shorten her chants, which is why she could set that prince on fire so quickly in her letter-writing scenes.]
Back to top
TheWa_rudo



Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:51 pm Reply with quote
helln00 wrote:

Sure but the author also has full control over the anime project(this studio was created specifically for it) and as noted before had no problem with showing actual crotch grabbing and but not the self reflection after the fact. And to your point about japanese not seeing sexual things in anime......eh what do you mean exactly? this is the country that showed the toothbrush scene, Interspecies Reviewer, Kuzu no Honkai, Aku no Hana( which also had teenage rape), Cross Ange( all the rapes) and currently Redo.


No, what I meant with that is that Japan does not see sexual themes with the same weight as west does. So they have a bigger tolerance towards sexual themes in media.
As can be seen by the examples you mentioned.

Also, as should be common knowled by now, no author has full control over an anime project. I think a recent series even exposed much of this side of the industry.
The one who has the final word is always the one paying the money.

helln00 wrote:

Dude it has been only 10 years, he started reading when he was like 2-3, and managed to blast a hole through his house at the age of like 5 and after training with Roxy summoned a giant storm, not including the fact that he doesn't need incantation and like had to choose to use incantation to make it more normal. Even in the first ep when he commented on reading, there was even a joke that he is a genius, not also including learning another new language just from reading the books. Its like if a kid got a chemistry set one day and then in less then a year had made plastic explosives. Its like hardwork if the work was easy. He isn't completely OP but thats like saying he's not 1st in the world, he is only number 5.


Picking up reading in 2-3 years is not that hard if you already have a grasp of concepts and words, and with a phonetic writing system. His parents read to him in bed and he ended up picking it up. And again, he didn't have anything better to do during those years other than read and train his magic.

And as explained, chanting magic is mostly automated, as long as you have a grasp of the concepts and enough energy, you can simply say the words and the magic will appear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2143
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:24 pm Reply with quote
TheWa_rudo wrote:
No, what I meant with that is that Japan does not see sexual themes with the same weight as west does. So they have a bigger tolerance towards sexual themes in media.


Rule of thumb -- it's rarely useful to talk about how "Japan", or any other country with a nine-digit population, views sexuality. Any opinion you might consider characteristic of Japan, I guarantee you there are lots of people who strenuously dissent. Just like how there are French people who don't eat bread and British people who want to abolish the monarchy.

(And it's especially dangerous to generalize from media targeted at, and largely made by, otaku. This subculture is not representative of the whole. Even a successful light novel anime doesn't have the reach of Demon Slayer or a Ghibli movie.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:11 am Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
errr. no, that is why silphie was shown using chantless magic, to show that eudy iw not special in that way. he only has his memories of his previous life, but he has no advantage over the world natives besides that.


Good to know, But from from that, the fact that he(and sylphie) can do it is a sort of special thing and not something that other people are supposed to be able to do. Like so other people can do that but its not a widely used skill so its an advantage as noted by OtherSideofSky, like he doesn't need to be number 1 in the world to be OP.


TheWa_rudo wrote:

No, what I meant with that is that Japan does not see sexual themes with the same weight as west does. So they have a bigger tolerance towards sexual themes in media.
As can be seen by the examples you mentioned.

Also, as should be common knowled by now, no author has full control over an anime project. I think a recent series even exposed much of this side of the industry.
The one who has the final word is always the one paying the money.


From what we do know this author has more control over this project than most, considering that he was able to get a specially purpose made studio to make the anime, whereas most anime studio are decided as an afterthought. Like do we know if he personally approved of those edits, no, but the fact that he was part of that process and arguably have much more influence on it then in other cases, he will effectively own those changes.

Also add to note Shay Guy's point about not generalising Japan's views towards sex and other topics. What counts as ok in sex and sexual topics are is not a smooth set, and like topics can vary wildly, The Danes have a children's TV show about a man and his giant penis, doesn't mean that its ok for a child to be grabbed by the crotch. Even the fact that the author and another had to go on to defend what happened on the show means that it has crossed a line somewhere.

TheWa_rudo wrote:

Picking up reading in 2-3 years is not that hard if you already have a grasp of concepts and words, and with a phonetic writing system. His parents read to him in bed and he ended up picking it up. And again, he didn't have anything better to do during those years other than read and train his magic.


I am not talking about the Human tongue, but the demon tongue that he picked up in the 2 years at Eris's place, that was done arguably even faster with him even speaking it by the time the incident happened. You try just reading a dictionary of another language for 2 years and see how much of it you can speak. And you say he had nothing better to do, he was acting for the most part as a regular kid with friends, he wasn't reading and training all day and as you noted before, his magic skill supposedly stagnated after training with Roxy so he wasn't doing that either.

And as someone noted before, his incantation-less chants can be considered special ( I mean Roxy's reaction to him saying that in ep 1 should tell us as much)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2868
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:05 am Reply with quote
not really, silphie is here specifically to show that you can teach chantless magic to any kid.

roxy was not here to watch it. it is one of those old things that just got lost of time, but there really is nothing that makes rudeus special besides his.memories from his previous lives. except for spoiler[ not being affected by a very specific curse] which again there are a few more people like him in that regard, but yes those are actually two digits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheWa_rudo



Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:25 am Reply with quote
Shay Guy wrote:
TheWa_rudo wrote:
No, what I meant with that is that Japan does not see sexual themes with the same weight as west does. So they have a bigger tolerance towards sexual themes in media.


Rule of thumb -- it's rarely useful to talk about how "Japan", or any other country with a nine-digit population, views sexuality. Any opinion you might consider characteristic of Japan, I guarantee you there are lots of people who strenuously dissent. Just like how there are French people who don't eat bread and British people who want to abolish the monarchy.

(And it's especially dangerous to generalize from media targeted at, and largely made by, otaku. This subculture is not representative of the whole. Even a successful light novel anime doesn't have the reach of Demon Slayer or a Ghibli movie.)


Well, obviously it does not mean everyone. No country is a monolith.
But It's a way to show what it's generally acceptable.
There are many things shown in anime that would never have gotten the green light in most of the west.
On of the most common argument for why "old" anime fans started watching it, was because it showed things and themes that would never appear in their own countries.

spoiler[And even outside of anime, "sexual entertainement" industry is still is huge in japan, as can be seen with the huge variety of products that are produced and well sold over thare, ranging from simple porn, to elaborate dolls, and toys. One of the best examples of this more acceptuin general mind is how you can find sex toys on sale in vending machines on the street.
Even in the general porn, there is way more criativity than most of western counterparts.]

helln00 wrote:

I am not talking about the Human tongue, but the demon tongue that he picked up in the 2 years at Eris's place, that was done arguably even faster with him even speaking it by the time the incident happened. You try just reading a dictionary of another language for 2 years and see how much of it you can speak.


He didn't learn from a dictionary, he learnt from a textbook that Roxy designed exclusively for him. It can be assumed that there are a lot of examples of how to pronounce things, like "you pronounce "X" the same you pronounce "Y" in human tongue or something similar.
Also worthy woth notice, was that he was already studying the demon god language before receiving the book.
Not to mention that a general rule for languages is that the more languages you know, the easier it is to learn new ones. And by that point he had already mastered at least 2, Human-god and japanese.

And as pointed by some people on youtube comments, other sites, etc... His demon-god language sounds kinda "Off" in some ways in relation to when the natives use it.
-----------
helln00 wrote:

And you say he had nothing better to do, he was acting for the most part as a regular kid with friends, he wasn't reading and training all day and as you noted before, his magic skill supposedly stagnated after training with Roxy so he wasn't doing that either.


He himself said that the mostly started learning new languages because he had nothing better to do and the free time for that.
In his times with the Boreas it would seem that he would mostly spend his time teaching and training wi Eris and ghislaine, and his free time was spent mostly reading/studying and growing his magic capacity with his sculptures.


helln00 wrote:
And as someone noted before, his incantation-less chants can be considered special ( I mean Roxy's reaction to him saying that in ep 1 should tell us as much)


Rare, not special. It's not like it's some special power that only he can learn.

spoiler[As I pointed in a previous comment:
Silphy will later develop the theory as to why some people can use it and others can't, and later create a pratical method so that evey mage can silent cast while terying it on Rudeus grand-apprendice.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2868
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:47 pm Reply with quote
anticipation for season end.
some staff from the first season of one punch man has been confirmed to work in this episode.
the pv confirmed that a scene that got skipped from the novels is indeed going to be used in this episode to end the season with a bigger impact.

elinalise is finally here, i cant wait to hear her voice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
helln00



Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:54 pm Reply with quote
TheWa_rudo wrote:

helln00 wrote:
And as someone noted before, his incantation-less chants can be considered special ( I mean Roxy's reaction to him saying that in ep 1 should tell us as much)


Rare, not special. It's not like it's some special power that only he can learn.

spoiler[As I pointed in a previous comment:
Silphy will later develop the theory as to why some people can use it and others can't, and later create a pratical method so that evey mage can silent cast while terying it on Rudeus grand-apprendice.]


I will agree to disagree with you on most of those points tbh cause our POV is divergent. ( also that is a lot of assumption for the demon language learning)

To just further elaborate on the last point, I never said that for it to be special it had to be exclusive. I just said that it had to give him a starting advantage ( this was because you argued that everything he has is earned through hard work). Being born taller then the average person is rare and a bit special, but its not exclusive to a single person. You can be born with the skills that other people had to learn and it would be rare and special, but its not exclusive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 30 of 31

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group