Forum - View topic

Chicks On Anime - International Fan Culture

You are right about the merchandise helping out. I've seen countless times that Bandai rakes in more from Gunpla than they ever could from DVD sales. You can't download merch, so it's always a good way to try to sell a DVD by packaging with it. And it's unarguable that Japanese DVDs tend to contain better physical extras than American ones. The issue here is that Americans aren't as merchandise crazy as the otaku seem to be.

Zin5ki wrote:

Quote: So, first you have to convince Japanese producers that DVD is dead in North America and Europe. A bit extreme, don't you think? I was under the assumption DVD sales were the intended result of choosing to stream many shows.

Yeah I think that is a little extreme to as how do you get new fans with a stream only model, it would have to be a word of mouth, as opposed to something aired on TV and walk in and see a DVD of it at say Wal-Mart or Target.

I wish I had time to dig up the links, but basically other than the top TV shows (see latest ANN news link for TV ratings--it's all little kid/family shows), anime is essentially a pay-for-play business model in Japan. The "advertisers" for late-night anime are the production partners who paid to make the anime in the first place, those that will make money on the DVDs, merchandising and licensing. So they are really paying the TV station to play the anime, which drives the revenue from other sources. The comparison in the U.S. is infomercials.

In the U.S., a series is picked up by a network based on the pilot under the assumption that the show will consistently draw enough viewers to earn sufficient revenue from advertisers. Those advertisers pay by the number of viewers according to ratings. That's why low overall viewership, regardless of rabid niche audience popularity, gets shows cancelled (e.g., Star Trek). If a show isn't successful, or doesn't play at all, then no DVDs. You don't see TV shows that didn't air selling on DVD, right? Cable companies that run ads work on the same model. Others like HBO try to pick or even produce their own shows that are popular, because if people don't watch, subscriptions fall off, and they lose money.

The popular kids and family anime in Japan can also earn "real" advertising dollars, so the model is like American TV. But no sane advertiser is going to pay money for ads during Ikki Tousen, To Love Ru, Rosario+Vampire, Strike Witches and Kanokon, right? The only audience is otaku, and they spend all their money on anime and its merchandise, not counting the stigma. So, how does Ikki Tousen, three seasons worth of it, get aired? Because the anime producers pay to air it, so they can sell DVDs and stuff to the otaku. There is a close correlation between the number of threads on 2channel (the otaku forum site) for an anime series, and the number of DVDs that will be sold, because that's the core of the audience.

The Japanese producers are in the same situation, ironically, as the R1 companies. Except the economics and structure of the industry there allow them to pay for airing the shows on TV, and they have a dedicated, captive audience that will pay for merchandise, and for 10,000 copies of a $700 special edition of Full Metal Alchemist, and do it right before a remake of the same show airs. Those little plastic figures and dakimakura are sold by the ton. Years after the show airs in fact (Haruhi, Evangelion...).

Imagine if the market were large enough for anime in the U.S., that a cable channel existed where R1 companies could pay to play the anime, and enough people would watch that would then buy DVDs? We would have the same model as the Japanese. But we don't have a large enough market to support the cost of operating a channel. The DVD sales are too low, and we won't buy enough Nanoha dolls.

So... back to the My HIME/My Otome marathon...

I think it's all quite accessible, actually, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the growth model. After all, I went from Hardy Boys mystery stories, and a few Nancy Drew books, to studying Joyce's Ulysses in college. What's wrong with going from Pokémon, to Sailor Moon, to Naruto, to Bleach, to Death Note, to ... Grave of the Fireflies? No problem, in my little book.

I do think that streams are a method of promoting DVD sales. With the lack of Anime on TV now, the companies needed another way to let people see their product. Show that appear on TV tend to sell very well compared to those that don't, so it was a necessary step. The guests at a con panel I attended in the summer mentioned that the US companies had been trying to have a stronger online presence, but it was tough to convince the Japanese companies that it was a good move.

I find it interesting how in Japan it's acceptable for a DVD to have a couple of episodes and be $40-50 while here such a price would be ridiculous. Personally, it's a matter of being thrifty with my hobby. I'd like to hear what other people think.

To give you a sense of why I think most anime is priced too high, back in the day I was a huge Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan. I bought the first five season boxsets. Each season had 22 hour-long episodes, which is equivalent of 44 episodes of anime.

Imagine if the market were large enough for anime in the U.S., that a cable channel existed where R1 companies could pay to play the anime,

You are right about the merchandise helping out. I've seen countless times that Bandai rakes in more from Gunpla than they ever could from DVD sales. You can't download merch, so it's always a good way to try to sell a DVD by packaging with it.

DVD: Karaoke, subtitling, dual language subtitles, etc. Fansubbing has more than any DVD could offer (Except textless OP). I don't want 'extra' clips or trailers (Ugg, unskippable title root intro garbage); I like the helpful contextual comments.

Mitsuho wrote:

DVD: Karaoke, subtitling, dual language subtitles, etc. Fansubbing has more than any DVD could offer (Except textless OP). I don't want 'extra' clips or trailers (Ugg, unskippable title root intro garbage); I like the helpful contextual comments.

Ummm..that doesn't make any sense. Fansub offering more than DVDs? If you're talking about fansub simply having more side notes, then DVDs can do the same thing with better features. Blatantly put, fansub is just superimposed, indelible screen texts. Depends on title, DVD makers do put those helpful contextual comments/cultural notes under DVD menu or pop-up bubbles. Good example would be Excel Saga. You can skip opening and ending credits on just about all Anime DVD's. You can skip extra clips and trailers with a press of the button. I do admit that those title root intro is annoying, but they only last 5 seconds or so.

You can't turn off subtitles on fansubs when you feel they're distracting or obscuring the view. You have to click & drag or fast forward at exact time frame of fansubs videos when you're tired of watching opening, ending, and preview

You can't turn off subtitles on fansubs when you feel they're distracting or obscuring the view.

You have to click & drag or fast forward at exact time frame of fansubs videos when you're tired of watching opening, ending, and preview

I have no trouble turning off the subtitles whatsoever - it requires exactly two mouse clicks. What you are describing are hardsubs, which are pretty much a thing of the past. Almost all fansub groups use softsubs now and have been doing so for quite some time. They will usually create a hardsubbed version for people with antiquated computers or standalone DVD players, but some groups are moving away from that practice. Softsubs also allow for multiple subtitle tracks so you could have a track with translator notes and one without, and switch between them at your pleasure.
The use of ordered chapters in fansubs is also gaining ground, especially when dealing with large high definition files. Repetitive sequences - usually the OP and ED - are rendered as separate files. The individual episode files contain markers that tell the video software when to insert and play the OP and ED files. You normally keep all the files in the same series folder, but if you don't want to watch the OP and/or ED you simply remove those files from the series folder.