Forum - View topicNEWS: Zeta Ships... With Changes
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Nagisa
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 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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To be fair though, the show itself is uncut. Nothing was physically removed from the footage, it just has different audio on top of it (unless they actually changed the video in the OP to fit the music, of course, which I haven't heard anything about). It's uncut, just not unedited. But even though it's edited for music, the entire fifty episode span of the series apparently hasn't been altered. Short of Bandai's failure to inform us of certain exclusions, I honestly fail to see what there is to get so worked up over. Getting the MP3s of these songs is simple enough—hell, there're even sites that lets you download the video of the OP (one of whch I know for a fact has both of Zeta's)—but the show itself remains intact, and I think that's the vastly more important part that has gotten lost in simple purist nitpicking.
I wouldn't be surprised if at least part of the long Zeta delay was due to legal issues that Bandai of America was ultimately defeated in. Also, dubbing an entire fifty episode series in one go as opposed to gradually as each volume is put out naturally makes the release date for the entire bunch set back much farther than a standard "volume one" release would be. Don't get me wrong, it was a pretty long wait, but I think Bandai has at least some sort of good reason for a fair amount of it.
That actually happens all the time in the domestic DVD market. Just about every movie getting put on DVD these days has "Special Edition" somewhere on the packaging, even if there is no "standard" edition following it, and even if the movie was a glaringly average performer at the box office with no real "Special Edition" materials on the dsic to speak of (Resident Evil, anyone?).
Yes, because the fansubbers were WRONG. "Athrun Zala" is the name that Sunrise, the people that made the show, gave the character. This isn't Bandai, this is SUNRISE naming SEED's characters. Even the alterations made for the North American release (like changing Raww le Klueze to Rau le Creuset) was all Sunrise's idea. Don't blame Bandai for stuff they didn't do, and DO NOT use fansubbers as any sort of "official" source.
Ocean Group merely did the voicework. If you want the EDITING, aim your ranting at Saban.
Victory will likely be one of the last series released, while SEED Destiny comes in just after (or right around the same time as) Double Zeta. SEED's been one of the biggest Gundam titles locally since Wing it seems (despite a decidedly botched TV run), so they'll be looking to capitalise on that. Then my guess is they'll go after X since it has a bit of a "Wing vibe" stylistically, and will be their last grab at mass market appeal before the ultra-niche Victory & Turn-A releases. Zeta's problems might be partially corrected depending on whether or not there's another standard release coming up after this Limited Edition deal. As for the original series, last I heard the Japanese audio track was beyond repair, and the series wasn't profitable enough here to warrant buying said audio even if it does exist. |
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JinchuuGundam85
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So we should just except a mangled series? I wonder how you would react Nagisa if this happened to SEED? |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11306 Location: Frisco, TX |
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And they did an excellent job at the voicework too. The first three movies produced by, what as then, Pioneer are the best English adaptations you'll ever find of DBZ. They were left totally uncut and had great voice acting  .
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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You feel cheated out of $160 because you didn't get a few songs, so you're ready to pay an additional ¥78,000? Hey, it's your money, but that seems just a little wasteful to me.
Wait, with all your rambling about toys and videogames, I got a little lost. What exactly is wrong with the DVDs? Where was this "crime"? The only actual complaint here is with the price, and that's really not valid. You're only going to get the complete show cheaper with bootlegs. I swear to god, all the complaining people do about prices...do you even realize how much anime costs in Japan? I'm sure those nth generation VHS tapes recorded off TV twenty years ago are going to be fantastic, too.
How can you tell that it wasn't remastered? Is it those beautiful, vibrant colors (which, by the way, look much better than on the R2 release, which is generally darker and a little washed out)? For being twenty years old, it looks extremely good regardless of whether or not it was remastered.
Bandai uses ZRO for shorter shows, Ocean for longer shows. There's no evolution here, this is just how they do it. Not to mention, your info here is just flat out wrong. Gundam Wing and Char's Counterattack were both Ocean jobs, and the 08th MS Team was done by ZRO. G-Saviour wasn't even dubbed. It was made in Canada and has been in English all along. All Bandai did was put it on a DVD and start selling it. Bandai used ZRO for 0080, 0083, and 08MST because they're all only a few episodes long. They used Ocean for Wing, G, etc. because they're longer shows.
Pretty much every change to First Gundam was mandated by Tomino himself. I don't know if he said anything about the theme song, but I'd imagine he probably had a hand in that too. Besides, my understanding is the theme song is on the DVDs (I wouldn't know as I didn't buy them). Anyway, have you actually heard the First Gundam theme song? Sure, I'd love for everything to be left alone, and while I wouldn't have tinkered with the song, I can certainly see why Bandai did.
Bandai didn't have a say in the matter. The powers that be in Japan made this change and Bandai's options were to accept them or not release the show. Bandai did what they could by leaving the names unaltered in the subtitle script. Sunrise actually wanted to remove the country concept entirely from the American release, but they found that it really couldn't be done, so they went with Plan B, which was to rename some of the mobile suits. Personally, I think that's better than not getting the show at all.
Hm. There are two sets of names. Do I use the one put out by the creators of the show, the people who MADE these characters in the first place? Or do I go with one of the numerous variations that exist in the fan community, created by people who are basically just guessing at what they think it should be based on the Japanese phonetic system, which leaves plenty of room for error? As for your extremely minor translation quibbles, refer to the Zeta thread that exists on the Anime forum.
I don't even know where to begin with this. Bandai Visual, first of all, is *not* owned by Bandai America. Bandai Visual is a subsidiary of Bandai and is responsible for releasing shows on video in Japan. Sunrise, which Bandai bought in 1994, produces anime, including Gundam, and to the best of my knowledge has no direct connection to Disney. Second of all, ZRO didn't "drop" Bandai. Bandai chooses whether they'll use ZRO or Ocean or whoever else to dub their shows. Ocean was chosen by Tomino himself to do First Gundam, so they stuck with it for mainstream UC productions like F91 and CCA. They prefer to use Ocean for longer shows anyway, which is why they were used in the dubbing of Gundam Wing and G Gundam.
Discs are sometimes burned badly. It happens. Talk to Bandai and they'll be more than happy to help you out with your defective disc. One bad burn doesn't equal a "lack of quality control" and certainly doesn't necessitate a full refund.
Do you have any idea what copyrights and royalties actually are? Listen. Bandai does not have the music. It was composed by Neil Sedaka, an American musician, who retains all rights to distribute it outside of Japan. It's not like Bandai just decided they wanted to rain on your parade by changing the music. It doesn't even belong to them. For the same reason, there won't be any soundtracks released in the US. Remastered transfers? Already went over that. 5.1 sound? Yeah, it's really worth the time, money, and effort to remix the entire soundtrack for the very small group of people who are actually going to buy these DVDs. Discount coupon? After you already got your full refund? A bit greedy, aren't we? What you don't understand is that Bandai is a BUSINESS. They released Zeta Gundam here not because they give a damn about you or what you want, but because they know that by releasing it in the US, they can make money. Their release will be optimized to make them the most money, which means they aren't going to release something so bad that it doesn't make them money, but they aren't going to release something that costs them more money than they're going to make back either.
Why? You already have it. What's it matter to you how it's sold to other people? Bandai hasn't actually announced any formal decisions about an individual release, but whatever they do will go back to the fact that it's a business and they're trying to maximize profits. They aren't going to manufacture thousands of DVDs for such a small market.
You feel overcharged...and I can't help but think back to your eagerness earlier in the post to shell out for the R2 release. Have fun paying for that. As for the defective disc, again, it was a simple mistake and if you contact Bandai about it, they should be more than happy to help you out. Just try to tone down the whole impudent child act.
Actually, most of the people I've heard from, while they would have preferred the original songs, have the cognitive capacity to understand why they aren't there, can recognize the merits of the rest of the box, and are quite happy with it. Myself included.
First Gundam doesn't even exist on DVD in Japan. It's not because Bandai's out to get you, it's because the soundtrack is pretty much ruined. Before they released the movie trilogy on DVD, they had to get the entire cast back together and record it again. If you can find an audio master in good condition, I'm sure Bandai would love to oblige your request.
The Ocean Group just does voice acting. That's it. I don't know why you've got such a beef against them. Frankly you need to step back, recognize first of all that this isn't such a big deal and second of all that you didn't get screwed as badly as you'd like to believe, take a deep breath, and let it go. The DVD set is actually pretty well done, the major problem with the music being far beyond Bandai's control. Many of the problems you complain about are quite simply wrong or shouldn't matter to you anyway (honestly, why are you so committed to how Bandai releases the show when you yourself already managed to get ahold of it?). You're so unbelievably spoiled. EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to get this little gem.
What part of the series was mangled? |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Just the same as I'm acting now. I have all the themes in MP3 format (hell, I even have about two remixes apiece from all the singles and whatnot), as well as videos of the openings from the shows. And dubtitles from a dub that remained completely faithful to the original story don't phase me in the least (they'd still be lightyears better than bootleggers' subs or most fansub translations...especially A-J, which is the group I had the misfortune of seeing most of SEED through...). It's like zaphdash said, Zeta's hardly been "mangled." Song changes were made due to reasons out of Bandai's hands and the rush to get the boxes out before fanboys beat down their doors Night of the Living Dead style resulted in a few isolated defective discs. By my understanding, it's still a quality release. |
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JinchuuGundam85
Posts: 149 |
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I guess "mangled" was a bit much. There are issues with Zeta, but, they don't really make it to difficult to watch it.The main issue is that Bandai did not give us a heads up about what was happening with Zeta. They set up us the bomb. I would like to know where exactly people are getting information on what happened and saying it is fact? As I see it there is no offical word until Bandai says anything.
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JinchuuGundam85
Posts: 149 |
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Can anybody tell me if a person creates a song do they have complete ownership of all it's forms (remixs and instrumental)? Reason for asking is because in Zeta there is an instrumental version of the second intro song Mizu no Hoshi e Ai wo Komete.
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Now that pissed me off, I agree. While Bandai may have had legitimate reasons to make the changes they did, there was really no plausible excuse to not tell the consumers about it. Hell, I think a good majority of the people who are upset now would've been much more understanding had Bandai actually done so.
I think it's news sources and individual customers calling the company up and asking individually. Or at least that's what I've been told, anyway. |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Is that version used on the American DVDs? I haven't finished watching the DVDs yet. If it's on there, it really confuses the whole issue, and to be honest, I don't know what to tell you about it.
Sunrise said something twenty years ago. Watch Zeta's original opening credits. When it gets to the song information, you'll see (although if you can't read any Japanese, you won't know what you're seeing, and you'll just have to take my word for it) that Neil Sedaka is credited for the songs. Here's the full story, once and for all. It was posted to the GML by -Z-, who is highly knowledgable about a whole mess of different things. Where did he learn it? I have no idea. But his information is very reliable, and if he were wrong about this it'd be the first time I've known him to make such a mistake. You'll see that it basically confirms the assumptions I had made earlier in this thread:
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JinchuuGundam85
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I am talking about the American release. The instrumental version of Mizu no Hoshi e Ai wo Komete is played a couple of times in the show the best and saddest use of it was at the end of series.
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TetsuoShima9
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Speaking of defects, has anyone had problems with the 2nd Dvd of the Gundam Seed boxed set?
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Zalis116
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 Posts: 6873 Location: Kazune City |
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