Forum - View topicThe List - 7 Righteously Confident Protagonists
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GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
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For all that people like to rag on Kirito for being over powered, "hyper-competent genius" does not accurately describe him. His "field of expertise" is virtual swordsmanship. Real swordsmanship, his sister is demonstrably better. Planning and leading people? His girlfriend is demonstrably better. For that matter Klein's better as well. Academics? Again his girlfriend is likely better. His interest in doing more with VR than being a virtual swordsman? It's clear he'll need to go to school for it, just like everyone else. Even in his chosen field of VR swordsman, he's not unrivaled. Plenty of people exist that are a real challenge for him. In short, he's no genius, and he's merely highly competent, not hyper competent, in his field of expertise. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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Kirito probably didn't make it because he's not really "righteously confident," he's just an unstoppable badass who just happens to be a nice guy.
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T.Silver
Posts: 163 |
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I feel Sora from NGNL and Kanie from Amagi Brilliant Park should have a honorable mention
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DRosencraft
Posts: 666 |
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I don't think anyone did so yet, so I will see if I can help clarify the difference between a hero/villain, and a protagonist/antagonist.
Protagonist is merely the individual(s) from whom the story's viewpoint is told from. The antagonist is the individual(s) opposed to the protagonist. This is functionally different from the hero vs. villain relationship. Hero implies that there is a legal, moral, or ethical justification that firmly distinguishes them from an opposing force. The villain is the one that seeks to oppose those determined legal, moral, or ethical designations. As noted already, Light qualifies as a protagonist because Death Note is told about him from his perspective. However, most people would consider him a villain because he uses, controls, and murders people. The confusion between hero and protagonist comes from the fact that most stories are told from the perspective of the heroes, which automatically makes them protagonists. That's part of the saying, "history is written by the victors"; the winners write the stories, and they're not likely to write themselves in a bad light, so they'll always appear to be heroes. In going from that, Dio is the protagonist of the particular season they seem to be referencing, since, if memory serves right, that initial series was mainly about him and his actions, rise to power, and downfall. Joestar was the foil, Dio's antagonist, the hero of the longer story given Dio's villainous tilt. This can be difficult to gauge because the way the story was told does put a lot of focus on Joestar, and sets them up very clearly as hero against villain. Lastly, my opinion is that there are far more stories written nowadays that make this difference more difficult. Take number 1 on this week's list. Yes, he is the protagonist, but is he a hero? What is his cause he's fighting for? What are his goals? This list doesn't require that distinction, but it is something to think about that most tend to overlook because of assumptions of the meaning of antagonist and protagonist. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4621 |
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Personally I think this list was just begging for a certain Reinhard von Lohengramm. He was bursting with righteous confidence from day one, and just about always had the skills to pay the bills. In fact just about the only individual who was able to give him any trouble was a certain tea-drinking Free Planets Alliance officer.
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Hellsoldier
 Posts: 769 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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Am I the only one who felt a void after watching Mahouka? Like as if the show itself degenerated from mid-season onward? As if Tatsuya, a character whose sense of humor and ability to challenge and win against all odds I actually liked, started feeling empty as I moved forward in the show? As if the show, in the end, lacked any real story, and was all about glorious Tatsuya, his sister with a lack of personality (oh believe me, her affection for her brother is not my issue, it was actually fun for a large amount of time), and little more? I mean, I even liked a couple of characters. Tatsuya is a bit like a surrogate for anyone wanting to be super-skilled, a genius that develops world-revolutionary machines, and a guy surrounded by girls. Marty-Stu spotted. And last but not least: The last episodes felt like Tatsuya was announced as Our Lord and Saviour Tatsuya Christ, able of ressurection even. And ultimetly, an agglomeration of Koreans and Chinese as an opponent... Really? Have we not move on from this? Maybe I am missing some detail in here. Something that will make my Mahouka memories a little more pleaseant. |
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DRosencraft
Posts: 666 |
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In hoping this doesn't devolve into another argument, this is kinda what I was getting at in my post earlier. Tatsuya is held up as a hero, but for the anime itself there is no real indication that he is one. Yes, protagonist because the story is centered on him and his sister. But as a character, the only direction he is given is on that sole order to protect his sister. They keep the full reasoning why a mystery, which can be played either way (she could be a smiling devil or the innocent angel she's generally portrayed as). For all his power one would assume he could just as easily knock out or restrain his opponents rather than literally reduce them to molecules. From what we can tell, he's basically a god-powered hitman for the government, again something that could be played either way. Problem is, the anime never does a good job of clarifying what motivations drive those that direct him (since he has no emotions and therefore doesn't direct himself). It doesn't give his opponents much personality either. If he's just a participant in an arms race, I don't know that makes him a "hero", though it doesn't necessarily make him a villain either. The anime ends up playing more like one excuse after another to have him show-off some further unbelievable and unbelievably over-the-top ability to beat grunts into nonexistence. |
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Hellsoldier
Posts: 769 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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Humm, I think you expressed it better than I could. A couple of twists and explanations would have immediately upgraded the show. Alas... He seems to me a bit trigger happy, if he's going to defragment people he could have knocked down, or give a more dignified death, having in consideration there was surrender. I am sure this sort of death would be forbidden in some future version of the Geneva Convention. And yes, I am not taking their side. I'm just analyzing it here. I think it's true. It may be because it's an incomplete LN adaptation, but it feels like events that are glued together without exploring any of the characters' personalities and motivations... This is essentially the antithesis of Cowboy Bebop. |
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Desa
 Posts: 285 |
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Jesus Tatsuya is the only character on this list I take issue with. Lots of issue.
Let's start with the most aggravating inconsistency; his supposed "inability" to feel. Utter bullshit. He very consistently goes "off-the-rails-literal-murder-mode" whenever someone threatens his sister, which is reasonable for any person who has feelings, but definitely not for someone who supposedly can't feel. Even though it's clearly untrue, Tatsuya himself says this lie so often he himself seems to believe it. But of course, the rabid fans can't swoon over someone who efficiently protects solely because it is his directive. Nothing wrong with brotherly rage, but just don't go saying you can't feel anything only when it's convenient for you. Can't stand that kind of nonsense writing. The fundamental problem with Tatsuya is that he was clearly written to basically solve all the major problems in the world the author has created. Let us list the proof: 1. All of the world's brightest minds working together can't crack this magic flight problem. Jesus Tatsuya needs a WHOLE day to solve it. 2. Normalfags can only use one magic gear at a time. Jesus Tatsuya can dual-wield. 3. Need a tactical nuke that can be fired from long distances with pin-point accuracy and has no nasty fallout? Jesus Tatsuya has you covered! 4. Pesky cold-fusion keeps eluding you? Don't worry, Jesus Tatsuya has your free-energy holy grail breakthrough as his actual high-school science project! 5. Tired of your soldiers getting fatal wounds and dying on the battlefield? Jesus Tatsuya has a solution for that! Even better his solution also works on himself! (naturally). No seriously. I wish I was kidding but he can literally fvcking resurrect the dead! If this is not proof enough that Tatsuya was written to be the second coming of the Messiah I don't know what else can convince you. The list can go on but those are some of the major points. I glossed over trivial details like he can catch bullets bare-handed and calculate like a supercomputer because I think people get the gist by now. Finally, remember when I said I'd start with the most aggravating inconsistency? I lied, that was only the second-most aggravating inconsistency. The worst offender would be the "explanation inconsistency". Oh look, the characters are doing some everyday magic stuff? Let us take a moment to allow Jesus Tatsuya to enter Super Verbose Mode and explain everything that's happening down at the molecular level because that's entertainment. Seriously though this is one of the few moments in the series I actually like because I'm more of a technical person. The problem is, Verbose Tatsuya only shows up for the basic 101-type stuff. Where is he when something actually interesting happens? The biggest example would be the corporate mafia / triad / whatever cleansing scene where Tatsuya literally disintegrates his targets from so far away they can't even see him and and it's like the walls and the building aren't even there. The targets and only the targets are disintegrated and there are no traces or collateral damage after the fact. This is not magic. This is Bullshit™. Where is Verbose Tatsuya to explain how the fvck he does something that shouldn't be possible even in a world of magic-science? How does someone go about ignoring such a huge inconsistency like it's not even there? Does the author actually believe that no one will call out such bullshit writing? If someone told me that Jesus Tatsuya has thoroughly solved the aging problem and is now immortal, I would say, "Yeah that sounds like him. Nothing inconsistent about that." This entire rant would never have happened if only they titled the series: "The Messiah At Magic High-School". At least then every explanation can be "Because he's |
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YotaruVegeta
 Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
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No, Dio's clearly up to no good, and we are seeing the story more from JoJo's perspective. If you just look at the OP for season 1, it's about Jonathan going to stop this evil vampire, not told from Brando's side. It's a stretch, and I feel that Dio was added because of a lack of characters to put on the list. Let's compare this to The Unlimited, a spin-off of Zettai Karen Children. This is clearly an antagonist who becomes a protagonist because he is the lead of the story, even though he's not a great person. |
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icelava
 Posts: 30 |
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Do not confuse "antagonist" for "villain". Antagonist simply means the person/group who opposes the protagonist, without any reference to moral compass. In Death Note the protagonist is the villain. |
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_Cyphon_
 Posts: 996 |
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Shouldn't Inaho from Aldnoah.Zero be here? I mean if you want someone who is strong in his area of expertise look no further than this overpowered little hacker.
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_Cyphon_
Posts: 996 |
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EDIT: Repeat post.
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#Zero
Posts: 32 |
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Izayoi, Lelouch, Dio and Light are the only ones really cocky on this list. Adlet is cocky only on the surface even though he can back up his claims, Tatsuya is humble and his emotions can't reach a certain point.
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Hellsoldier
Posts: 769 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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Briliant Charter. I loved it. It sums it pretty well. Another thing: Has anyone else seen a hint of nationalism in Mahouka? |
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