Forum - View topicANNCast - Code Geasscast
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jroa
Posts: 537 |
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That's primarily because Akito the Exiled is not on TV. Western fans can't easily get a hold of it. There is always some buzz whenever a new entry comes out, so a number of people are still following it. For the record, the production has been delayed multiple times and the last episode will only be released in theaters by February 2016. Having said that, I'm quite happy with it. I didn't want a bad clone of Code Geass but something completely different and this does deliver a change of atmosphere and mood. Kazuki Akane brings his own tastes and quirks to portraying the European side of the planet (albeit with some "woe is Japan" as usual) and not everyone is a fan of his creative choices, such as how Akito is arguably more difficult to like than Lelouch due to lack of charisma, yet there's more care in developing the setting. The pacing of the story has been an issue. It really only took off by episodes 3 and 4. Definitely agreed about the quality of its mecha combat. Akito the Exiled has, along with Majestic Prince, probably some of the best 3D mecha action in the anime industry courtesy of studio Orange (no, not the character).
This is fair, but I do think he's still partially to blame for Shu. Don't forget Haruto though.
As a general rule of thumb, I don't read light novels nor do I watch anime adaptations of light novels. There's few exceptions to that. Which means I can't really confirm nor deny your statements about the quality of light novel main characters. However, I do have the impression, as an outsider, that most of those light novel characters are presented as more perfect and flawless than Lelouch. I think that would make them far too boring for me, even if they have similar backgrounds in terms of tragic pasts or poor little sisters. Lelouch does have more in common with Char than Light Yagami, despite the obvious similarity in terms of magical tricks, evil laughs and exaggerated poses. Which does beg the question: why can't Sunrise just make a Gundam show where Char is the lead character? Not Quattro, Char. Or rather, I should say why they didn't try to do so until Gundam The Origin came along.
The thing is, people have copied several of the other real or imagined elements of the Code Geass formula and the actual results have been underwhelming. Not total failures, but still nothing compared to the original in terms of commercial appeal, popularity and even critical perception. I wouldn't say Lelouch is the only good aspect of Code Geass but he certainly reflects most of what made the show work. Even CLAMP's character designs don't automatically lead to very high sales either. Not all anime adaptations of their own manga are guaranteed to suceed.
It's a matter of perspective. Lelouch did lash out against the world, but he wasn't blameless. He actually explicitly and implicitly criticizes his own actions on various occasions, so that statement doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Whenever someone asked Lelouch if he had sinned and deserved to be punished, the man couldn't possibly deny it. In fact, the dude does prefer to lie in order to make himself look worse rather than come up with an excuse. It doesn't make him an angel, much less a true genius, but it doesn't make him a heartless demon fiend either. Light believed himself to be almost a living deity and thus free from taking any responsibility since the world needed him to remove all crime. Lelouch didn't think so at all. He wasn't that blindly self-centered. I don't want to say Lelouch is a great human being, because he does have a lot of black marks on his record that would be disgusting in real life, but I think he is a good character. Beyond that, I have no issues with Lelouch choosing the method and time of punishment. It made sense for him to go that far due to his personality and under the circumstances. We will have to agree to disagree there.
Wait, who ever said that was the only way? Not even the show itself. It is, however, the method that most properly reflected Lelouch's personality and his method of operation. You can easily suggest other alternatives, but not without ignoring that the character himself probably wasn't going to pick them. Of course there is some level of absurdity, but we are talking about anime here. The show doesn't have any need to maintain realism in its resolution, especially not after openly reject it so many times. It would be like suddenly complaining that Kill la Kill ends in a completely ridiculous fashion, if you wanted to use a cynical description, yet it doesn't actually bother me because it's true to that other show's nature too.
There's actually a complete "lost" or "ghost" script for episode 26 that came with the Code Geass R2 BD box set. Perhaps someone will translate that whole thing one day in order to get a better look. But based on a couple of summaries...under that scenario, Lelouch would defeat Suzaku during the S1 duel but the Emperor was still going to capture him instead. So he'd still be imprisoned at the start of S2, except with all his memories intact and without a fake brother. Rolo was purely created due to the perceived need to come up with a better way to re-introduce the show to new viewers. Needless to say, it certainly wasn't a good idea in the long run. |
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Thatguy3331
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This was fun to listen to as I was working on a personal project, the danger of shows like these is always if I run into something that makes me laugh too hard it messes up my drawing hand, but at least means the quality's good and good enough that'd I'd risk that
I haven't seen a split second of the show and don't really have any intention to but I figure this would be a good way to erase any niggling curiosities I may have had and again, it was fun, great show! |
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Black Thunder 6
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He follows in the same creed of characters like Tatsuya in which his dark brooding facade hides a twisted destructive personality with the biggest difference is that his flaws are apparent and actually problem and not just lipservice. Not all LN protags are perfect they're just lacking in personality.
I honestly don't think it'll be all that entertaining since with the exception of a few none of the Char clones would make an effective lead character like Lelouch and I just don't think they have the talent to pull it off.
Keep in mind that the formula is the same formula used in SEED which was the same firmula used in 0079. I think the most common description of Code Geass was 0079 with Char as the protagonist and they weren't wrong I think the reason why the clones are so similar is because they same writers than anything of a trend started by Code Geass its more of a sign that Okouchi doesn't know how to write anything else and can't capture lightning in a bottle twice.
Geass came out when they were still relevant with Holic and Tsubasa so anything before Blood-C is fair game and Kimura's designs also helped to distinguish them so Lelouch and Suzaku werent just expies of Kamui and Syaoran.
Like I said it doesn't matter if a character admits what he does is wrong if he continues to do thus actions. The whole point of Lelouch's arc is that he built everything on lies until he actually deluded himself that it would all come to fruition in the end until he snap as a resort of perceiving that Nunnally died and it all went down from there. If there's anything to be learned is that karma is a bitch and what goes around comes around. I think Hope was on to something with Lelouch becoming his own father since his ambition was no different from Charles who had the same mindset of taking the world on by his own twisted logic and of course Schinzel who was exactly like him before his revelation.
Seems fairly egotistic and hypocritical to choose his method of death rather than just accepting it from when it came coming to him three months earlier but I realize this show has its own logic to abind by in the end.
Well not through the characters mouths but the solution brought about to have the world move on was to create a tyrant so reviled that the world would come together to stop a common enemy which was the original purpose of the United Alliance before the betrayal which seem to pretty much handwave all the world's problems and direct it all at Lelouch which is like saying WWII ended because Hitler died. While true peace was not achieved through this method as stated in the epilogue the solution was hamfisted but to its credit not as bad as something like A/Z and played well with the themes of the characters as absurd as it was. It is, however, the method that most properly reflected Lelouch's personality and his method of operation. You can easily suggest other alternatives, but not without ignoring that the character himself probably wasn't going to pick them. Of course there is some level of absurdity, but we are talking about anime here. The show doesn't have any need to maintain realism in its resolution, especially not after openly reject it so many times. It would be like suddenly complaining that Kill la Kill ends in a completely ridiculous fashion, if you wanted to use a cynical description, yet it doesn't actually bother me because it's true to that other show's nature too.
Well that was episode 26, R2 was never actually planned beyond the Lelouch gets captured scenario which evolved into something else entirely. And I do remember them saying Rolo was created as a result of trying to get Lelouch back to Ashford so he could avoid excessive running in and out of prison. |
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rizuchan
 Posts: 976 Location: Kansas |
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My biggest problem with Code Geass, apart from just about everything said in the podcast... was that, I got the feeling that the audience was supposed to agree with Suzaku that his methods of working the system from the inside out was the "correct" thing to do. That's a sentiment that's probably impossible for the teenage viewer to swallow, and even as an adult his methods seem way too idealistic to me. (Though, Lelouch's would be too, if he didn't have the magical Plot Device. ) And Suzaku's reception among the fans would show that not very many people could empathize with him. Regardless, there seemed to be a LOT of disconnect between fan reception of Suzaku and what the writers did with him.
As a whole though, I think Code Geass is very good when you take it as entertainment and nothing more. As Zac discussed, it has a little bit for everyone - a high school romcom, a mecha show, armchair philosophy... the problem is if you get too focused on any one aspect of it, you'll wind up being disappointed. |
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Black Thunder 6
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I think its largely that the fanbase did not care who was right or wrong in the show which wasn't the point just that they found Lelouch more entertaining as a whole. Its a lot like Amuro and Char from Mobile Suit Gundam where the former winded up being a lot more popular despite being the antagonist and as later installments would show very pathetic and self destructive because he was more entertaining to watch and arguably better written. I thought both Lelouch and Suzaku were well written and the only fully realized characters in the show, they were noth great foils to one another and its kinda sad that people were so quick to write him off which is why people tend to misinterpret his character. Despite the vocal minority he's actually fairly popular on his own. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5861 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I always thought that the death of Princess Euphemia li Britannia was what led Lelouch to decide his deathly end game.
Lelouch didn't want to use geass on Princess Euphemia. But when his geass went out of control, Euphemia was his victim. Not only did he have to kill her, because of her geass controlled actions, but she would be forever known as the Massacre Princess. He viewed that as a horrible and unjustly fate for an innocent and kind woman. I could believe in his actions, because of that. Guilt can be a powerful motivator. |
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Galap
Moderator
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Out of all the various elements in this unusual alternate universe, there was one element that always seemed out of place, even since the main series: Geass itself. It may be strange to say this, but I always kind of wished that there were no Geass in Code Geass. Its reason for being there is never really explained, and while all the other differences between our world and this one seem physically possible with minor science fiction concessions, Geass remains completely fantastical and bizarre. We never get any explanation as to why such a phenomenon exists, or rather why Geass is endemic to this world specifically.
Within the context of the show, Geass is treated like the oft-appearing break from reality that necessitates the story in low fantasy/urban fantasy works, or in ‘low’ science fiction set in our world in the present day, except Code Geass isn’t set in our world in the present day: it’s set in its own world with its own setup and rules, and Geass represents a second level break from that reality. The choice to take this second step away from the familiar is certainly interesting, but ultimately it only serves to weaken the immersion, because we must not make just one inferential step to get there: we must now take two steps in orthogonal directions. It isn’t egregiously bad, and is an interesting choice as previously mentioned, but due to the execution it doesn’t really work either: it gives the impression that the show is sticking its finger into too many pies, which makes the setting feel less cohesive because it makes it seem more like a contrivance to allow the writers’ whims to play out rather than a real world that exists for its own sake. To me this would be a lot less of a problem if they went into what geass really was, why it existed, and how it led to or is connected with the other differences that exist between their world and ours. |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5439 Location: Iscandar |
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Code Geass is my second all-time favorite anime series (behind FMA: B). I also think that the first season is the superior season, but I do not think the second season is bad. I agree that the Chinese and "Evangelion" stuff was unnecessary, but the ending of season 2 was a big payoff for me.
I usually get frustrated with Zac and Hope's harsh criticisms of some anime, but I give them credit for raising valid points on the failings and virtues of Code Geass. By the way, I am convinced that Lelouch is dead. Other than Death Note (if I am remembering correctly), you have covered most of the big hits from the previous decades. I assume that you will start to cover newer anime. I would love to see the Super Nerds discuss SHIROBAKO in the near future. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5861 Location: Virginia, United States |
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@Galap
You could say the same thing for the "Force". Geass was this series "Magic". Hardly anyone explains were magic comes from. |
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Shippoyasha
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I don't agree with the idea that the show's individal aspects were weak as some people think. I do feel each element of Geass could be stronger, but by no means are the individual aspects actually weak. Also, the oedipus complex thing was not really there as I see it. He looked up to both his sister and Euphemia as a proud older brother does more than anything. If they went against his ideologies, he was not shy about speaking out.
I do think European and Chinese factions could have been a lot stronger as they were just role players in Geass season 2. As for Suzaku, he was fantastic as a character and the show really played up his flaws almost overtly so, but in the end, he is the only person who can sympathize with Lelouch's path. Where politics starts to intrude into the personal life and Suzaku knows that intimately as he even killed his father to stop a Japanese rebellion. Also, I adore the erotic touch of the show considering Takahiro Kimura is a master of it and his designs are incredibly sensual as well as CLAMP's help... which leads to.. One major irksome point is that people keep attributing CLAMP for character designs, but Takahiro Kimura is the principal character designer of the show. CLAMP did get involved but they mostly designed the clothing styles and motif of some characters. But the actual art and the erotic styling is all Kimura's. I am so irked that supposed Geass fans don't even know Takahiro Kimura brought these characters to life. I can't believe it is 2015 and people still gloss over his work. |
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LupusRex11141
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Never actually posted anything on ANN so high to everyone here, and it would be Code Geass of all things that finally drove me to the forums.
First and foremost, I absolutely, un-apologetically love this show. It is easily in my top 3 all time depending on which of the others I have watched last. Overall I feel that this is a show best just appreciated for the total ride it presents without over-analyzing any one piece in the the moment, much as the guest mentioned in his summary at the end. However I feel that there where some decent decent, slightly deeper elements hidden in the show that I did not see my first time through which was during my high last half of high school. Now that I look back on the show and have re-watched it several times I think that the best part that I rarely ever see discussed is that involves the breakdown of the Lelouch/Suzaku approaches in terms of their ages. I will start with Suzaku first, so please stick with me I know he is mostly terrible. I have always felt that Suzaku's character was terribly written to the point of being annoying despite the fact that in an any real-world scenario his approach, which I concede misses the point with this show, was not only right but the only viable solution for achieving any change. It would not have achieved to overall end result of Lelouch's plan but would have also avoided the vast majority of the atrocities he brought on. Given his age and position in the military/society all he can really do is strive to advance and make changes when the opportunities arise. Lelouch, on the other hand, I think is a fantastically written character. He is the perfect portrayal of a genius teenager who thinks much too much of his own abilities and has not really been exposed to the way the world works at the point the show starts. This can point is constantly driven home by how he is able to set up things mostly in his favor but s**t still constantly blows up in his face such as the Euphemia massacre. That whole situation in the show can seem poorly inserted until you take into account that Lelouch is exactly the kind of person who has entirely too much confidence in his abilities. The bragging that led to Euphemia killing everyone is exactly what most people of that age with that level of naive intelligence would say. I now work in engineering and have both been and have worked with several interns coming up through school and this type of overconfidence and bragging is very common in people who have not yet made it to the real world and can be horribly dangerous if not checked by someone else. I myself had this trait before spending a period of time at a refinery before graduating and look back on it embarrassingly. the only thing that Lelouch has that manages to secure his success is the absolute power of his Geass, without it he would have failed very quickly into the show due to his own inadequacies. Watching the show through a slightly older lens severely highlights his faults and makes them painfully familiar. |
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jroa
Posts: 537 |
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There's a few Suzaku fans here and there. Not all of them fangirls either. The thing is, and in a way this was an unfortunate omission during the podcast because it would reinforce a few of Scamp's arguments, the story makes no bones about Suzaku being a living contradiction. All his idealism and heroism, while he does try believing in it (especially after meeting Euphemia), is more or less a cover story for his martyr complex. Yet, in turn, developing said martyr complex was basically his way to escape from the fact he is a murderer at his core. Suzaku hates himself for killing his own father and had to put on a mask of idealism and collaboration with Britannia in order to deal with it. This isn't some sort of hidden secret by the end of the show since, as we all know, Code Geass is very transparent about itself. Suzaku's side of the argument wasn't entirely without merit at first, despite his stubborn actions and annoying behavior, but ultimately the goal of his character arc was to prove his annoying "think of the rules first!" method wasn't such a good idea. Not just because Lelouch's way is better, but because breaking the rules and killing is also part of who Suzaku really is. Or what he can be, rather. Once he drops his pretense of perfect morality (beginning from very late S1 and made even more blatant at key points of R2), Suzaku accepts his true nature as someone who is closer to Lelouch's methods than to Euphemia's innocence. That's when they can finally team up and why Suzaku can be Zero after all. Also supported by the homoerotic tension between the two dudes, but that's too obvious to deny. The end result is that Suzaku does provide the show with a fairly more interesting character dynamic and contrast, without exclusively relying on his relatively limited philosophical argument with Lelouch that he isn't intended to win. This doesn't make Code Geass as deep as Hamlet or whatever, but it does help explain why there are certain things people can appreciate about it that Zac might not share. ------ Which reminds me...Hope's argument that the show breaks its own rules about Geass near the end does have an arguable counter. Have you considered that maybe Lelouch thinks slavery is worse than death? It would certainly match his stated ideals. Most of his victims and targets just die after he uses Geass on them or the effect just ends after completing the command. Generally speaking, he doesn't want people to follow him like puppets through hypnosis as some sort of permanent condition. It would be easy, but it wouldn't fit his considerable pride nor his more noble intentions. It's only when Lelouch himself is basically broken that he actually gives out "follow all of my orders" or "become my slave" commands. At that point, he is already thinking of killing himself in order to stop Charles or otherwise dying in the process of making himself look evil. All bets are off by then.
I'm getting the feeling that Akito the Exiled is going to try and explain something more about Geass. Whether that's a good idea or not is hard to tell at this point. Without specific spoilers...there's a sequence in Chapter 3 that suggests there's more to the lore than what the TV series suggested and I assume this will be expanded in the fifth OVA.
I think both the actual content of the two hour podcast as well as Scamp's blog post on Mahouka prove that your comparison isn't really accurate. Tatsuya is literally emotionally dead to everyone except his sister and has a million magical powers on him as well as a disgusting belief in discriminating others being a good thing. He is repeatedly shown to be flawless in combat too. Rather than a character, he is basically a boring plot device. Lelouch does care more about his sister than about most people, but he isn't so dead inside to the rest of humanity. The guy does display multiple emotions, whether they're positive or negative ones. More importantly, Lelouch does not believe in a toxic nationalist ideology and absolutely isn't shown to be perfect at everything. You could make a rather long list of his failures and mistakes.
Okouchi is problematic, yes, but I think he's basically doing what studios ask of him. Can't really say no to a check, I guess. I just wish he was able to do it in a better way. Not all of the simllar series are related to him though. Aldnoah Zero didn't have anyone from Code Geass on the staff. Gundam SEED was also melodramatic, sure enough, but the formula has differences. It's not quite as theatrical and bombastic nor as silly and self-aware. It's a more morally straightforward story too. That gave it a different sense of mood and pacing. Better in some ways, but far more boring in others. More importantly, SEED did have strong structural parallels to 0079 yet it's also an imperfect comparison for the cast. Kira is not literally Amuro and Athrun isn't exactly like Char. Curiously enough, Suzaku is arguably something of an intentional subversion and/or strawman version of Kira Yamato (from Destiny), thanks to his far more messed up psychology behind his facade of idealism. Instead of being right about everything, like Kira and Lacus, the show was rather cruel to him.
Counter-point: Mōryō no Hako (2007). I've heard that show isn't too bad, but it sure didn't blow up in popularity despite having CLAMP doing the character designs.
Guess we'll have to stop here then. I didn't feel that. By the way, there are a few valid parallels between Lelouch and Charles, which even their voice actors noticed now that I can recall. That said, their plans have very different implications as Scamp brought up. There is something of a contest of supervillains during the last arc of R2, but not all of the participants are identical.
He was true to his twisted ethics and wanted to accompish something..
Well, I can assure you that Code Geass is not trying to show us a documentary of World War II. But since you want to bring up history, the demonization processes of both Napoleon and Hitler did help create an era of relative and imperfect peace after their respective deaths. There was measurable progress in a manner of speaking. It just didn't last forever. The world of Code Geass could have another war after 10, 25, 50 or 100 years of peace.
We would still get a very similar ending. Just with a different second season connecting the dots. Last edited by jroa on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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redranger
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Best. Anime. Ever. Period.
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Karasu-Lacryma
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Ah, that is true. I believe Funimation got the rights to it, I'm assuming they'll wait till it finishes before dubbing and/or releasing/streaming. I wish they'd at least try to create some more buzz for it in the mean time. Do they always wait till an OVA series finishes like this? |
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Divineking
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It's probable they may want to wait till the whole thing's finished but the more likely answer is that they don't want to put out the OVA's till they re-release the TV series and with the delay in materials from Sunrise that could be a long wait 
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