Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Pornography for Women
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errantrogue
Posts: 45 |
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Bullshit... its about teenage girls who want to be the center of bright pretty emo boys of every persuasion. Thats universal teenaged ,pop culture stupidity, not a manga invasion. |
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Panda Man
 Posts: 257 Location: North Carolina |
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I know that men who watch porn tend to have more testosterone in their bodies. So I guess it's possible that watching porn can cause some to go on a sexual rage. As for the article, I thought it was a good read. Most of the stuff they said is what I agree with. I don't mind Hentai, but if it's rape, it makes me feel sick. I don't like the tentacle stuff either. IF anything, I would rather watch a hentai that is based on a more realistic relationship than the made up "plumber meets slut at the door" kind that are in basically all mediums of porn. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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To my knowledge (I don't watch them so I can't say for sure), most hentai have at least one rape scene. So even watching those shows, if you pick carefully it's hard to avoid it completely.
I CAN tell you one show that disgusts me: Variable Geo Neo. It's one of those obscure OVAs no one's ever heard of, I've not even seen it, and worst of all they charge 30 bucks per disc...and there's 3 discs, each with ONE EPISODE EACH. And you thought FLCL's R1 release was bad. That's not the point though. The idea is that these cutesy waitresses fight in this competition...but the loser is forcibly raped by random guys for the enjoyment of the audience. That kinda crap just makes me sick to my stomach, both that someone thought that'd be sexy for an anime and that there's an AUDIENCE for that trash. |
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errantrogue
Posts: 45 |
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stats... PURE stats or gtfo. you don't watch them so OBVIOUSLY you know every title. just like those folks who blanket all anime as either pokemon or tentacle pr0n... or politicians who say GTA is the deathknell of our youth.
there's an audience for every fetish under the sun... and i'd much rather they got their jollies fapping to hentai than acting them out via RL experimentation. i prefer anything distasteful (like guro or the SAW movies or whatever) be acted out in fantasy other than IRL. we don't have to like it... we don't even have to watch it if we don't want to. that's the beauty of personal taste. |
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rinjichan
Posts: 58 |
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I'm pretty tired of the perpetuation of victimized thinking that's suggested in this article. When are all of us, as women and consumers, going to quit blaming advertisers, like Dolce & Gabana? D&G aren't a huge lofty force that we can't do anything about, they rely on OUR money to exist. If the media relays messages we don't like, we need to quit accepting them and blaming them for social ills. We aren't robots with the media inputting all of our choices into our heads for us unless we ALLOW them. I saw the Dolce & Gabana ad, along with things like the Paris Hilton Carl's Jr. ad, and because I don't agree with those ideas, I will not purchase those products. All of us as consumers have the ability to cause a stir over messages we don't like instead of whining about they're to blame for victimization of women everywhere. Our inability to act or to speak up against these things are why they still survive.
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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;p Twilight is a poorly-written, thinly-veiled teenage-masturbatory allegory for abstinence. Nothing more.
I mentioned this in last week's discussion thread, but I believe this is largely by choice. Nobody is telling female PhD students, "No, you can't be a professor. You have to teach kindergarten." It's also easier to get into a science program if you're female. Less women want to be scientists because it's a crappy, underpaid job, that requires many, many work hours. Many women *choose* to get a job that will allow them to spend more time with their families. |
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Swissman
Posts: 768 Location: Switzerland |
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I quite enjoy reading this collumn. It's refreshing to read good discussions about issues surrounding anime and manga from the viewpoint of women. Speaking of "viewpoint" however, I have a small nitpick here:
Mulvey's arguments in this famous essay have always been controversial to say the least and can be considered rather passé in nowaday's scientific community. "Visual Pleasure and narrative cinema" had it's political purpose in the seventies but it doesn't make lot of sense to understand or analyze movies (and visual entertainment such as anime/manga, or ads) in this day and age with the mind frame the essay suggested (aka that there is one specific gaze both for males and females; biological inherent male/female dichotomy, ect.) I'd be better to consider Edward Branigan's or David Bordwell's narrative viewpoint-theories; they're less politically driven and do a better job explaining how visual narrative art works. |
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smoochy
 Posts: 367 Location: Texas |
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What you're doing is projecting your dislike of the concept of submission to men onto the preferences of other people. So what if a woman enjoys being submissive to a man? Many men exist who enjoy being submissive to women sexually, there's a whole sub-genre of porn devoted entirely to that. Don't attempt to find some subconscious reason to justify your view, one doesn't exist. |
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ParagonDoD
 Posts: 34 |
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Yeah, honestly I think that "act like this and you will be desired" is significantly less offensive and objectifying than "you have no free will and will do whatever an advertiser tells you to do". |
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Hikari06
 Posts: 55 |
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This was a very good, enlightening article, especially in how it discusses why women condone rape fantasies and the like. Now I feel like I understand (at least more than I used to) why, for example, Hot Gimmick is so popular, or for a somewhat more niche female demographic example, the reason why so many female yuri fans (not just guys) still like Shizuru from My-Hime, despite what she did to Natsuki. I'm really interested in reading that essay on the Mulverian gaze now. I've heard about the concept before, but I wasn't sure where exactly it originated. The advertisement examples were also really well chosen, imo.
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12skippy21
 Posts: 785 Location: York, England |
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I find the article a fascinating read. Good work.
It's an interesting debate between west and east, while feminism has a roughly global movement it's intensity if much less in Japan. Japan is much more male-dominated than the USA or UK in my opinion and the woman are a lot more reserved (hence how westerners are depicted as being much more open and unphased in manga and anime). This may be a factor towards how hentai is. However sex and commercialism is much stronger in the West and is still aimed at the male demographic despite the feminist movement. I think that this is less due to advertising but more due to the stereotype that women are less interested in sex and only want a good long relationship, this idea got worked on until it became the fantasy of young girls. Hence the Twilight reference. Seems to me that the whole industry is focused on keeping generic female insecurities present. It's similiar to the stereotype that all men want is sex (the advertising backs this up) and has an asexual (not interested in sex) the current situation pisses me off. Lets hope women can destroy this deep-seated stereotype cause men sure won't do it. |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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Maybe an interesting topic for one of the future discussions would be the "role models" in Shojo, by women for women, like those series mentioned by Mayu Shinjo etc. There are a lot more mangas in that genre, but at least a few animes where made that also reflect those "typical shojo" characters, like Vampire Knight or Itazura na Kiss. (Maybe with someone like liannesentar as a guest, like you've done for some of the other discussions.) liannesentar, that article you linked was very interesting and well written ... eventhough it's a serious topic, I actually found it really funny  I couldn't help but laugh at this picture:
It just looks so much like a parody ^^;; |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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I think I've always understood rape fantasy as being about control. Think about the obvious similarities with alcohol. Why do people drink alcohol? it doesn't taste necessarily any better than anything else that you could drink, so why is it so universally popular? Why are there commercial establishments (bars, pubs, etc.) that cater specifically to people who want to drink it? Alcohol is a drug, and by definition drugs are things that change the chemical balances in people, often with effects on how they behave and not behave. In alcohol's case it removes inhibitions. It allows people to succumb to suggestion more easily. People say they drink to help themselves relax, but really what they are doing is saying, "Hey. I don't want this control that I have over my life and the things that I do right now, you have it." It's freeing to "hand over" control of yourself.
In Japanese society, drinking serves exactly this purpose. I remember taking a cultural anthropology class in college (was my major) where I studied a social custom around New Year's (I think), where groups of men would get themselves completely smashed and then go on this walking parade of the town, carrying a great big box (shrine or something culturally significant) and if they passed by the homes of people they didn't like, or felt were not kind people, they might "accidentally" swerve into them, causing damage to paper walls and the like, and it's all considered "in good fun." Basically, there, drinking is a way of escaping a very socially repressive society, and they are "allowed" to do many things by drinking, ie, giving up control, that they would not otherwise be allowed to get away with. It's forgiven by the culture as a necessary outlet to basic human frustration. I personally, as a non-drinker (because I hate the idea of handing control of myself over to anyone or anything), don't share the appeal that people have to want to give up control of themselves (seems like an awful lot of trust some people give to the total strangers all around them in a bar), but I understand the desire to be freed from the rigidity and stress that comes from every day life. I feel like rape fantasy in fiction is designed to allow both women and men to ignore what is "expected" of them in a sexual relationship and explore sex without regard to the issue of "control." For a woman it can be freeing to be "taken by force" because then she doesn't have to deal with "giving over" control of herself to a man. She doesn't have to think about the social or emotional implications of having sex with someone, especially in a society that still calls girls who have sex without love, "sluts." She can safely fantasize about sleeping with a guy she finds attractive or might like as a person, without thinking about what it means about her ('cause she can always fall back on the defense that she was "forced"). For a man, it sort of relieves him of the responsibility of being an attentive lover or have any emotional or social responsibilities to her afterwards. He isn't required to "please" the woman he is forcing, though, of course, inexplicably the woman enjoy it anyway, which relieves any lingering guilt he may feel about it. He is neither required to feel anything for the woman and on this point the differences between porn for men and porn for women is apparent. In porn for women, the man forces himself on the woman because he can't control his "feelings" for her, but then, that is rape fantasy designed for women (another "safety zone" designed to justify the female audience/reader's acceptance of that loss of control). In porn for men, the issue of "love" is irrelevant. The point is about selfishly pleasing himself, so anything that has to do with the feelings or desires of anyone else is an inconvenient complication that would require drawing away attention from the sex to establish a situation. It would be like one of those classic porno movies trying to establish why the plumber chooses to have sex with the hot half-naked chick (and her sister) who opens the door, or ponder what their relationship will be after the sex is over and he goes back about his life. It doesn't matter what his motivation is, what he is thinking or how he is feeling, the point is fulfilling sexual desires. But above all, the "fantasy" is the important factor in rape fantasy. It isn't meant to be real, just like it isn't meant for people to take a drunk seriously. As long as the drunk doesn't start causing trouble for anyone around him (or her) with his (or her) inebriation no one pays it much mind. As long as people don't take the "fantasy" out of rape fantasy, no one should really pay it much mind. Let it do what it is there to allow people to do with it. No one is "forcing" anyone to "enjoy" it. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Most means over half. Now, I've only seen about a dozen or two hentai shows, but of those, I recall only one that didn't have a rape. Maybe two if you count "she wanted it, but not exactly then" as not rape. Sure, it's a small sample and thus there's a chance my results are skewed, but I specifically avoid the ones that have plot synopsis implying that rape is a major part of the plot. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14790 |
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As I mentioned before about Twilight girls and real girls in general:
So, it's an admitted secret between girls: be a douche - she'll love you for it. 
Last edited by enurtsol on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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