Forum - View topicMobile Suit Gundam 00 (TV) (all seasons + movie) - Japanese broadcast (w/ index).
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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spoiler[Glad to see Saji finally cut off that dreadful mullet. Ugh.
You knew from the very beginning he'd obviously eventually find out who Setsuna was and there'd be some animosity there. The way it ends up happening in this episode is...kind of underwhelming. Maybe it's just because it's the very first episode, so last season isn't really fresh in the mind anymore and there's been no buildup or anything. I don't know. I didn't especially hate it or anything, but it was just kind of whatever. It was actually sort of funny how such an important development in the story just kind of happened without much fanfare. Exia actually looked pretty cool with its Terminator right eye and cloak over its missing arm. I haven't been a huge fan of the mecha designs in this show so far, but I wouldn't have minded seeing decrepit Exia get a few more sorties before Setsuna traded up. At the very least, I'm wondering why he didn't bother to engage Trans Am at all in that battle. I guess they just didn't want to go too crazy in the first episode. C'est La Vie seems to be pretty much exactly the same as Virtue. This is probably not really news to anyone else, but I haven't been following any of the "offseason" developments so a lot of stuff in this episode that's probably been known for weeks or months is new to me. It also looked like it kind of had a giant Gundam face on its back, sort of like a backwards Devil Gundam. Weird. Looks like Louise maybe had some work done on her over the past four years. Has she become an Enhanced Human (or whatever they're calling it in the 00 universe, I forget)? Is this already known and I just haven't read about it or is this a new development? Looks like Livonse/Ribbons/whatever his name is has her under control. In any case, looking forward to seeing this subtitled in a couple days to fill in the considerable gaps in my understanding of Japanese.] |
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Nerv1
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Couldn't you tell spoiler[that Exia was still damaged from the battle against the GN Flag in the last episode of season 1 ?]
Wow, this episode getting me all excited for the next, it's kinda sad to see Graham pilot A-Laws suits instead of his Flag in the op  . But nowspoiler[ that the enemy's have mobile suits that can fight on-par against the Gundams, I expect season 2 to be more action-packed than season 1]
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MeanMachine
 Posts: 28 Location: Robertville, New-Brunswick |
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Well, the suit Ali is piloting in the Ending sequence looks wicked. And I think it had soome kind of bits wepon
spoiler[I would also like to know what exactly that sick evil f**k of Livonse did to Louise]. I'm starting to grow a soft spot for her I think. At least she's a bit more endearing than Stellar from GSD, having seen how she was before the situation crapped for her kind of helps. As for Graham, he's still awsome, but....... I'll leave it at that. spoiler[Personnaly, I found the first season had an appeal to me because what I shaw made me root less for celestial being and more for the other guys. Now, with A-LAWS in the KILL-THEM-ALL mode, I feel as if I am being TOLD who I should be rooting for: The now morally correct side. ]I say f**k it, I'm with Ali. |
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imperative7
Posts: 39 |
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I saw episode 1 a few times yesterday and I thought that the episode was good, although, some more explanation about what happened over the last few years. The episode felt like we were dropped right into the action (which is good) but we need more back story about what happened.
The Good: spoiler[Setsuna acting on his own with what's left of Exia. Definitely different from what happens in Gundam shows normally.] And the episode helped to introduced the new players and show a bit about what the characters were doing as the new season starts. The Bad: spoiler[We have no idea about what Louise is doing in a mecha and Saji just happening to be there to meet up with Setsuna seems to be a bit too convenient. And Saji does have the right to hate Celestial Being for what happened to Louise and his sister due to their encounters with CB and what he lost. Tieria telling Saji that the big picture matters more. Of course, Tieria would say this since he is so absolutely devoted to the ideology of CB at the expense of the needs of individual people.] I'm sure that we will see the rest of the regular characters soon. And I'm sure that Nena will be the 5th Meister at some point in the season and it would be an interesting twist on the Gundam rules if spoiler[Nena is the person who caused Louise great suffering but she is now the side of the heroes while Louise is with Ribbons and Innovator. And don't be suprised if they end up with CB eventually with Saji and the rest of the original Meisters.] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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A strange episode, it threw us into the action before it actually explained just what was going on. I thought it introduced events suddenly and without warning, and the narrative jerked around violently. One moment something was going on, then there would be this jarring transition, as if a great deal of time was skipped between scenes. Again, motives and explanations were left alone, leaving me to scrap together a plot from the piecemeal clues. Four years of developments and background, and they basically ignore it all. Worse, I don't get the feeling that we are ever going to get a decent answer as to what happened, what the characters have been up to, and why they are in the positions they are now. To make matters worse, after the ED (which seems more like an OP), we get a couple of minutes more episode. This was very disconcerting.
I've always believed that Code Geass season one was far superior to Gundam 00 season one, which looked pretty but came across as vapid and without much substance. The opening episode of the second season of Gundam 00 does not engender much confidence that the show will get any better. In fact, this episode is of seriously inferior quality than the first episode of season one. While I liked some elements, it was too scattered and dis-jointed. Furthermore, the plot comes across as a Zeta clone, at least enough that it makes me uncomfortable. I will of course continue to watch the show episode by episode as they are released. But, my expectations are sinking fast. I hope that this episode was an anomaly caused by the switch over from Code Geass R2. In any event, the second episode had better step up the game, or the entire season may be in jeopardy. Not from being cancelled necessarily, as most Mecha fans are likely to put up with garbage as long as there are prettily animated action scenes. But, should the season remain in SEED Destiny territory (where it unfortunately lies at the moment), then it will become the object of much ridicule and outrage. It may even kill the chances of Gundam ever returning to the television sets of nations other than Japan. What happens now is entirely in the hands of Sunrise. They need to clean up their act, tighten their narrative in an orderly fashion, and stop introducing pointless cameos (among many other problems that need addressing). Anyway, I've talked long enough, so I'll let others take it from here. Actually, I do have one question: which is the best fansub group for Gundam 00 season two? I'm using Conclave-Mendoi, but do not have the bandwidth to sample others. Any advice would be appreciative. And Tony K., if you're reading and disapprove of my question, feel free to delete this entire paragraph. I'm not trying to cause trouble, so if the question is not permitted, then I have no objection to it being removed. Thankyou. |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11311 Location: Frisco, TX |
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That's the same group I've been using. In fact, I'm very appreciative that they were so kind as to make a PS3-compatible .mp4 version for Season 2, which now makes it just as good as watching the HDTV broadcast from Japan. As for the episode itself, I actually liked it a lot. Granted, I was watching the last 2 episodes of Code Geass R2 directly beforehand, which I turned off immediately after spoiler[ Lelouch supposedly dies during his parade, leaving me with a desire to skip the epilogue entirely], but I view the disjointedness of this episode as a mere tease of what's to come. A few things I'm looking forward to are: spoiler[ how Saji will deal with the fact that Setsuna, his former next door neighbor, is one of the central cogs of Celestial Being. It's true that his sister died wanting to investigate the whole ordeal, but the kid (Saji) needs to understand that it was a result of his sister's personality, not Setsuna or the rest of CB and their ideologies that caused her to have such an unfortunate death. And Louise's predicament is all on Trinity bitch. That was not CB, Setsuna, or anyone else. Trinity bitch was stupid, immature, impulsive, and pushed the button of her own free will to blow up that party because that's all she is, a Trinity bitch.] spoiler[ Louise being an A-Laws pilot doesn't surprise me. Because of Trinity bitch's actions, Louise is probably seeking revenge on Celestial being. But instead of doing it in the name of peace, justice, or whatever better self-righteous motive some other character can think of, I predict Louise's drive is out of self-gratification only. And unless her character shows some kind of admirable progression or development, I could care less about her and hope that she dies a quick, meaningless death because she'll turn out just as annoying as she was in Season 1, only this time she's supposedly trained and armed.] spoiler[ Looks like we have yet another blond-haired, masked man playing rival to the main protagonist. I actually chuckled a bit when I saw him, but it wasn't from disapproval. Frankly, I love the bond and synergy shared whenever this kind of combination is established in a Gundam series. However, I find his mask a bit odd. Does anyone else think he looks like a Japanese daimyou? But in any case, I would like to see Graham developed as the main antagonist, or at least the main one for Setsuna. That whole obsession thing he has with wanting to defeat him is kind of fun to watch. Then again, Ali makes for a pretty good villain as well. It should be interesting to see how those 3 get worked out.] The only strange thing I feel about the new season so far is: spoiler[ the fact that they're getting Lockon's twin brother to replace him as a Meister. I would've settled with Lockon's death in S1, and maybe having just 3 Meisters, or maybe even writing Saji into the mix, but with less outlandish results. I mean, killing Lockon in S1 made the overall story a little more believable for me, and actually had more dramatic effect. But then you're basically resurrecting him here and tweaking his memories. His appearance, voice, and everything else is the same.] As for S1 of 00 vs. Geass S1, I have Geass S1 rated Excellent / A. It's sort of mindless action mixed with over-the-top writing, good art/animation values, and a cool, energetic soundtrack (aside from the Hitomi insert songs, which worked in Last Exile, but hasn't done anything for me in Geass). The only things that kept it from a Masterpiece was the blatant fan service and the evolution/non-deaths of a few character I couldn't stand (*cough* NINA!). I found 00 S1 to be fairly entertaining as well. None of the characters were as complex or admirable as Lelouch/Zero, but I've always liked the pseudo-philosophical and ham-fisted political writing of the Gundam franchise. 00 also has a very sleek look (duh, since it's the most recent) of any Gundam show, so that was a little pleasing to the eyes as well. I have it rated as Very Good / A-. The detractors were again, blatant fan service (why are both this and Geass filled with giant-breasted girls? Not even women, but girls?!) and continuing evolution/non-deaths of characters I can't stand (such as the Trinity bitch and possibly Louise Helliviknowwhenshe'sgoingtodieorbeuseful/notanotherbrainlessbitchthatactsonimpluse or whatever her last name is). Oh, and I didn't necessarily like how spoiler[ half the cast got offed a la Zeta. As I always recommend, if you're going to kill off characters, spread it out. Even if they're useless, very minor, or whatever, you get more dramatic effect over a long period as opposed to a train wreck like Geass R2.] I definitely don't mind the first episode just jumping into the action. This way, it just proves that nothing was ever truly resolved, that the Federation is a sham, and that there's probably someone somewhere in the background pulling the strings, like Ribbons. We'll find out in the next 24 episodes. EDIT: Typo. Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Saji got a huge amount of development in season one, when we consider that he never did anything. He and Louise were in almost every episode, and had more screentime than anyone who wasn't a Meister. Yes, even more than Graham. I, and I wasn't the only one, thought that Saji would become a Meister himself. I mean, why spend so much time on him if he wasn't going to do anything?
spoiler[And yet, instead of him becoming the new Meister, they pick Neil's brother. Just because the two were twins does not mean that Lyle has the same skills as Neil, or the same training. I think that it is a huge mistake to do so. Couldn't they have just left Neil alone? Every time I look at Lyle now, I will be reminded that he is not the cool guy that we saw in the first season. Every time I look at him, I will be reminded that he is but a fake, a replacement, who makes no sense story-wise and cheapens Neil's heroics and his death.] I don't like to be negative and depressed. It is not like I wanted this season to be bad. I don't hate Gundam 00; I just hate what it is doing, where it is going, and the overall execution of the series by Sunrise. If it gets better - which I sincerely hope it does - then I will be the first to rejoice (as well as the loudest). |
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nightjuan
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While it's not clear where the second season is going, I agree, other than partially remaking Zeta Gundam, there's more than enough time to deal with that. I actually find the first episode to be sufficiently entertaining, but I would appreciate if some of the lingering questions are answered over the next few weeks and the new status quo is fleshed out a bit. Shouldn't be hard to do.
And for the record, while I'm not fond of such comparisons, I do prefer Code Geass in terms of characters and overall entertainment value, but I believe 00 delivered superior mecha action and had a better overall plot line. In those two areas, I expect 00 to significantly outdo R2 without much effort, to say the least. It should even be easier this time around. The real question will be whether this second season of 00 makes me care about the characters a lot more than the first did, which is entirely possible given what we've seen thus far, and then perhaps my opinion of the show will improve in general. In any case, I'm not too worried at the moment. Btw, I understand that the ending sequence used for the premiere is in fact supposed to be the actual opening, so that little stunt should be out of the way from now on. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8465 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Having just (finally) watched the first episode of the season, I have some thoughts/reactions to share.
It was certainly quite exciting, with several things happening in the span of just a single episode, and much of it pretty action-packed. I felt as though I was being thrown into the frenzy head-first. Besides getting a very interesting interpretation of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam's first episode, which Setsuna F. Bajeena infiltrating the Titan-Laws colony while the fascists beat up on innocent spacenoids, we also start to recieve what will probably be the resolution to some of the first season's lingering plotlines. I expected Saji's animosity towards Celestial Being, since he was so tragically effected by their actions. Personally, I was surprised he had enough guts to even grab's Setsuna's gun, so I don't see why some people are whining that he didn't shoot him, because the guy just isn't that type of person. Seeing Louise work for the A-Laws was somewhat surprising, even though she was with Regene at the end of the first season. I can see her wanting to stop any forces like Celestial Being from popping up, after her trauma, but actually piloting a mobile suit? I'm not sure I like that, or if I would prefer her to stay a deer in the headlights or to become a really threatening pilot. I just hope she and Saji aren't caught in a situation like the end of Gundam 0080. The A-Laws certainly are brutal, but I hope there's more to them that just bullying folks, which tended to be the overarching purpose of the Titans in Zeta Gundam. The rebel force doesn't seem to be all that well-equipped, they're hardly the threat that Celestial Being was. I wonder if Celestial Being will be working with them or end up intervening and fighting them, too. I'm interesting in finding out what Shirin is doing in that rebellion. Also, I want to know what Ribbons is up to seeing through Louise's eyes. I hope he realizes that he doesn't have the cleavage for that outfit. More importantly, I can't wait for Ali al Sarches to appear. You know that Not-Graham-Whatsoever will be on the battlefield soon. With Not-Neil-At-All coming aboard (which I hope he doesn't do right away, as if it were no big deal because he's Neil's twin) and Soma called to duty, it's only a matter of time before my favorite named character killer returns and offers someone a car ride. After all, he spent a good portion of the first season assuring his place in the world to come. I'm sure he's probably been bored. I thought it was fitting to see Gundam Exia back, but in the same wrecked shape it was at the end of the first season. After all, if Setsuna hasn't had any contact with Celestial Being since, you can't expect him to have magically restored it on his own (unlike some Gundam pilots of the past). He's a pilot, not an engineer. And it was all the more fitting to see Exia get totally trashed. After all, now it's an outdated model. It could barely handle the GN-X's before without resorting to Trans-Am. I'm not fond of the Gundam 00 design, but I'll wait until I see it in action before I make any real judgements. All in all, it should be a real interesting second season. It's already pretty thrilling. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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With all due respect, I completely and utterly disagree with your assessment on this one. Code Geass season one had very good Mecha battles, far more realistic than the "pwnage" Gundam 00 used so blatantly. Yes, the last few battles of Gundam 00 were extraordinary, but that does not excuse the previous twenty episodes. As for the plot of Gundam 00, it was simple and child-like: "Let's stop war by making everyone hate us, since people who hate us will unite. And then when they have killed all of us, they will decide to lay down their arms of their own accord and everyone will hold hands." Hmmm. Sounds like Code Geass R2, except that A: Code Geass R2 made it work (eventually), and B: we aren't even talking about R2, but instead just a comparison of the first seasons of both franchises. Code Geass season one had a great plot of rebelling against an evil authority. It was engaging, had a historical basis (in Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and Victorian England), and it was clever and well thought out. Code Geass took a brilliantly fresh and interesting premise, and ran with it. The plot was far better, without a doubt. Gundam 00 was billed as a smart Gundam, one which would place greater emphasis on politics. Well, actually, a very select few episodes aside, politics didn't factor in much at all. It is far harder to write a smart political storyline than just tread the Gundam staple of how war is so tragic. Yes, it works to show how war is so destructive, but it means that the early theme of the politics of war barely got looked at. And, I thought a recent review by Key was very interesting. In it, he made the observation that though Gundam rallies against war time after time, its main attraction is depicting - even glorifying - the battles and fighting. Hypocrisy? Perhaps. So no, I don't believe that Gundam 00 is better in either category of (overall) Mecha action or the depth of plot. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8465 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I've got to laugh at anyone who would compare a trainwreck like Code Geass with Gundam 00. It was a laughably ridiculous show full of awful writing, bad pacing, baffling characters, and plotholes. You can barely even compare the two shows anyway because one is a mecha program and one is just a show that has mecha in it, horrible skating mecha and the same one battle over and over again. Gundam 00 may not be the strongest entry in the franchise, but it is by far the superior show. Geass is more along the lines of SEED or SEED Destiny in its absurdity. Almost everything about it screams over-the-top and cheesy.
This is a Gundam 00 thread. Let's keep Geass out of it. Last edited by penguintruth on Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I'll drop this on my end, after replying.
I'm perfectly okay with that.
This is one of the reasons why I don't usually make such direct comparisons, because their use was too different in each show. Code Geass relied less on mecha overall, so while I also appreciated the more ground-based encounters, that was mostly on a tactical or strategic level. They were less impressive in terms of pure action. Yes, the final battles of Gundam 00 blew me away, above all, but some of the earlier fights were also more effective in that regard, on average.
I'm hardly saying the basic idea had more "depth", and it's true that Gundam tends to recycle many of the same themes and plot points...but while it wasn't that new, I felt 00's plot was better executed and, more importantly, received sufficient closure by the end of the first season. I found Code Geass to be far more engaging as a character drama, no doubt, but the overarching plot was far too ambitious and convoluted for just one season...and you already know how the first one ended. Even as a Geass fan, that didn't leave me too happy. In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree here. |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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I'm far from a Gundam 00 apologist or anything, but I'm not quite sure how you can complain that the first episode just throws you into the action without explaining anything. It's been what, five years? There's a lot to tell and I'm really glad they didn't waste the entire episode on boring exposition. Frankly we don't need to know every little thing that's happened anyway. I'm sure the relevant info will be conveyed as the season goes on -- all we really need to know is some background of the A-Laws, maybe just generally what the characters have been doing lately, and why spoiler[Hallelujah is apparently locked up in an asylum.] That last part will probably be handled in next week's episode and the rest will come in due time. I think that just jumping right back into it was the right move. Comparing it to SEED Destiny is definitely a stretch (although, let's not forget that the beginning of Destiny was actually pretty strong, it didn't really start falling apart until the Archangel rescued Cagalli from her wedding in like episode 12 or 13 or whenever that was). 00 may end up being awful -- it really wouldn't surprise me, I wasn't terribly impressed by the first season -- but I think it's way too early to make sweeping declarations that it's as bad as Destiny or that it might be the final nail in the coffin for Gundam outside of Japan.
Episode 2 thoughts: spoiler[Lyle is in the fold now, so Lockon is "back" I guess. Wasn't entirely sure on this since my Japanese is not good, but it looked to me like Lyle is actually working with the rebel group that's fighting A-Laws and it seems like he's not entirely genuine, that he's taking the opportunity Setsuna's offered him to infiltrate CB on behalf of the rebels. But like I said, I could be wayyyyyy off here, I'll have to wait to see it subtitled I guess. If they're planning to explore an angle like this, though, then I'll forgive them for the sort of ridiculous "Lockon's got a twin brother, let's just use him now!" plot development, since they might be able to do something interesting with it. Graham looks ridiculous in his mask. I think I'm just losing my patience for some of the stupider stuff that makes it into anime shows, and if I actually sat down to watch First Gundam again, I'd probably feel the same way about Char at this point. But I don't know, I haven't actually watched that show in years. I do know that Graham's mask is pretty stupid, though. Saji learns the truth about the attack on Louise. Setsuna rounds up Sumeragi again and just blurts out that they're with CB to that dude who was with Graham for most of first season whose name is slipping my mind. Not sure if Setsuna is bad at keeping secrets or if he just doesn't care. Marina is arrested. Coup d'etat? Feds attack Ptolemaios, Setsuna finally activates 00 (after some trouble getting it to work -- something about the solar furnaces they were using, they got it to work after they plugged in Exia's and 0 Gundam's furnaces). 00 Gundam is pretty ridiculous and over the top, probably because Setsuna threw it into Trans-Am from the very beginning. Also looks like Ribbons/Livonse/whatever was not aware of 00. Looks like they'll be rescuing Hallelujah from his asylum next week. Probably start getting some answers about what's happened the past few years when that happens.] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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You are certainly coming across as one. And I'm coming across as a guy with an axe to grind. But maybe I have a good reason to be grinding my axe. Maybe the series is as flawed as I make it out to be. Maybe. I wasn't expecting them to explain everything (or even most things) in the first episode. But I was expecting that something as basic as scene transition would be handled competently. The episode jumps around like a yo-yo on steroids, not that yo-yos are capable of consuming steroids. But I digress. I have many, many other complaints, but I've said most of them already. I believe all are legitimate, and am not attacking Gundam 00 because I simply feel like it, or because I irrationally despise it. The comparisons to SEED Destiny are valid. Both are Sunrise shows, and both belong in the Gundam metaseries. One was awful for the last three-quarters of its run, and the other seems to be trying to out-do the first in this regard. As far as I'm concerned, this season is already at the level of SEED Destiny, and no amount of awesome battles - as seen in episode 2 - are going to change that (though they are appreciated). I've labelled the first season (of Gundam 00) as pretty but vapid. This season (so far) appears to be taking this to the extreme: incredibly nice animation, great music, exciting battle choreography, eye-catching mecha designs. But we also get: a plot ripped from Zeta (instead of Karaba we have Kataron, for instance), poor direction, awful and/or boring characters making stupid and/or uncharacteristic decisions, no desire to explain anything, a simplistic plot which is poorly handled, simplistic themes that wallow in hypocrisy (war is bad, now let's revel in the glory of it), and, um, hmmm. You know, I think I may have actually covered everything. Maybe the series isn't as bad as I thought. Maybe. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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After watching the second episode, I can see the need for slowing down eventually, or if not then at least for more exposition to explain certain things about the new setup and the characters, but again...it's still too early to tell where this show is going, and I find it enjoyable enough in any case.
Not just because of the action alone, but I won't deny that's part of it. For all the open questions, I think most of the cast is at the very least doing interesting things, even if I'm not too interested in them as individuals per se. At the moment I mean, because future developments may change this. Even with the continuing Zeta vibes and all, I still don't think this is just going to be a remake or what have you, in terms of plot. I'd expect more variety (if not necessarily outright originality), new elements that will make their presence known after the CB team is gathered again and some of the opposition's true plans come into light. Say, spoiler[whatever Wang and Ribbons are planning...though those two seem to be using each other for their respective agendas, I'm assuming they will be the main antagonists rather than the A-Laws and the enemy aces as such. Ribbons is obviously using the Federation, Wang is trying to play for both sides, as expected, but should certainly have her own interests to take care of. I wonder which of them will go down first.] |
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