Forum - View topicNEWS: Video Site with Unauthorized Anime Gets US$4M Capital
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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You're right, there is no "grey area" here. Profiting or not it is still being streamed and distributed without a license from the provider. The reason the copyrights and licenses exist is to protect the rights of the studios to ensure that they can earn from their hard work. Anyone who thinks the site is treading on a "grey area" is fooling themselves, especially if they demonstrate $4M in capital, there is no way they will be able to claim they are just taking donations or that they are not-for-profit.
Maybe it is what people asked for, but last I checked people asked for it so they could stream anime and watch it online but still support the industry. This site does not support the industry, and if it had to I would say it's almost a sure bet that their current pricing setup and business model wouldn't function. This site is a parasite that is far lower than fansubbers could ever possibly be, not only distributing anime illegally but profiting from it as well. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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The problem is that judges and juries don't really think that way. They're going to see what the obvious case is and if anything, if that's what they're getting away with, the laws will change to prevent sites like Crunchyroll from existing. Period. It's basically a loophole. Even in 2008, common sense usually does prevail in these sorts of things. |
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sheighton
Posts: 20 |
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Wow, it seems that most of you if not all of you except for Goodpenguin are missing the point that there is only ONE thing that is illegal that is being done...That one thing is illegal distribution. There is no profiting going on, only donations by subscribers and an investment of $4M by an outside company...And yet the reason why I say that it still falls under a gray zone of the law is because of the fact that CR makes it very visible that they will willingly remove any copyrighted content if asked or told to do so. This in turn would mean that if a company does not ask this, it is essentially consenting (whether in reality it approves of it or not) to this distribution until it does ask for the removal of the series. This is also the reason why a distribution company is far more likely to come knocking on the door than a studio...
Last edited by sheighton on Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kokuryu
 Posts: 915 |
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They are adding manga to the site too soon aparantly...
I think they may have some legit manga titles.... |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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I consent to you stealing from me as long as I don't find out and therefore can't ask you to stop. I consent to you punching me if you punch me and knock me out before I can say stop. It's easier to make up wild funny things that are similar to this than I thought. |
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sheighton
Posts: 20 |
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To say it is going on without any of the studios or distributors noticing is a blatantly false statement... |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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sheighton wrote:
Say what now? Venture capitalists don't hand out 'seed' money to non-profit fan sites. Of course Crunchyroll profits off of streaming content, it's (streaming content) the major draw to the site, whose viewer-numbers then are used to attract advertisers who pay Crunchyroll. Absolutely they profit off their content.
As just stated financial intent is irrelevant to copy-right law. In practice, the same type of 'defense' arguments have already failed for a number of other sites, notably that popular Russian mp3 one awhile back. Edit:
You wrote that as I replied above, but again Crunchyroll has an undeniable profit motive here, or they wouldn't be getting funding. To the point about distribution being illegal, that's not a little 'hiccup' for Crunchyroll, that basically what they are entirely: a distribution site. Most everything they have up is basically in violation of international copy-right law. While you have a kernel of a point in that they may being playing a game of odds in that Japanese rights-holders may not notice, taking content down at request isn't a legal 'loophole', it's a 'here's a chance before we sue' nicety, it ('Take down when you ask') doesn't protect anyone from lawsuits/prosecution/fines. |
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sheighton
Posts: 20 |
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I did not say that it is non-profit, rather that it does not [directly] profit off of it's steaming content (be it the major draw or not); CR profits off of donations for increased bandwidth. Now, how significant these profits are debatable and also beside the point.
As I have said, CR is in no way profiting on it's streaming content. If it is profiting it is only doing so off of money donated for increased bandwidth...
Actually no I didn't...The only thing I changed when I edited that post was that I added "in reality"...That post had me agreeing with you from the start...The distribution is illegal, and yes that "Take it down before we sue" nicety does equate to a loophole due to the fact that if you take it down you usually don't get sued... EDIT: Also note that CR also often takes down series at the time of licensing to a distributor and sometimes even before. That said, it is also working on gaining the necessary capital to become a legal internet distributor (something that will take the industry in an entirely new direction). |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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I don't want to belabor a point, but again, Crunchyroll is beyond a shadow of a doubt profiting directly off of streaming content, by attracting advertising dollars based on the amount of viewers the streaming content attracts (and actually incorporating ad's directly into the streams). A bar that serves you free salty peanuts which may or may not make you thirsty, and thus prone to order a beer, can be argued that it may in cases profit indirectly from the free peanuts. A 'For profit' website business that makes its money based on how many people view it's streaming content cannot claim to 'indirectly' be profiting by them. They are not a side freebie extra to the main appeal of the website, they are the reason people browse it in the first place. And as said, whether Crunchyroll profits or not, the mere act of displaying the content (most of it) they have already puts them afoul of copy-right law.
I meant that I would have included your last point with the others, but I didn't see it until I was done responding to the first two, not that you had edited something with ill intent. |
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Tyrenol
Posts: 398 Location: Northern California |
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And the head circus clown over at AnimeOnVHSTape.com goes to the center stage and stands on his soap box over why it's harder to care anymore.
Personally; I think we should all still care. It's called "taking somebody else's cherished hobby and making cash off of it." The worst form of opportunism based around anime PERIOD. (Besides; 98% of anime out now is crap, with no obligation from the industry whatsoever to break from the norm.) I hope those companies get a wind of this and start taking Crunchyroll to court. A messy process but it needed to be done last year. |
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sheighton
Posts: 20 |
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I would like to point out that CR has in fact done no such thing...There are no advertisements placed into the streams and there is no known plan of doing so. At most, what has been discussed is whether or not the pages themselves should display ads or not, and as of the current time there is only the banner ad on the main page and that is it... Anything beyond this (like that stated in the article) that points towards ads being placed in the streams is merely outside speculation that is as of now completely inaccurate and false. Furthermore, any claims that CR is currently doing so are also completely untrue and blatant lies... |
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BasouKazuma
 Posts: 15 |
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Now the big question here is, what does any of this even matter to any of you people reading this?
Work case scenario, Crunchyroll get's taken down completely by companies who actually own the content. More likely, things will escalate to the point where Crunchyroll has to remove material as it becomes licensed in America. Even more likely, some licensed videos will remain while other companies continue to send requests for media to be removed (which is basically where it's currently at). The issue of Crunchyroll making a profit is also minute (small). The owners would be making money off of the hosting service and organization of the content. There are plenty of other mediums to get Asian media off of the internet or in stores. People come to Crunchyroll for it's ease of use and community. So once again, all of you should just sit there and think for a second. What are you arguing about? How does it concern you? Yes, I'm an UNPAID moderator of Crunchyroll which might make you think I'm biased towards the site but I'm just speaking from what I know about the site. There is no evil plan, the owner just wanted to share videos with friends and people who loved Anime from the beginning. For the longest time he struggled to pay bandwidth costs and now if this deal is true. He can continue to do so without worrying about the monetary aspect. If it was just about the money, the banner ads would not have been taken down. They could just scam it to make even more money on top of wherever else they are getting funds from. In short, hosting streaming media is no worse than using bittorrent which I'm sure most of you use for your own purposes. |
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Vortextk
Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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I'm arguing about a site's policies and content. It concerns me because this is what a lot of people want, subbed anime online with ads/subscription fees, that is so far doing nothing to help the state of the industry or using said content legally. This could all change with the capital influx as to other users have speculated; a Youtube scenario. As of right now it's not. I don't have to be in the war, or even American to speak about our "war" in the middle east do I? This subject, being one of legal/illegal anime distribution from a site some people may not like the look of, hits closer to home with a lot of people on an anime news site than a lot of other subjects in the news. |
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Tofusensei
Posts: 365 |
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Except when you make 4.05 MILLION DOLLARS off of it. -Tofu |
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sheighton
Posts: 20 |
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You know I am wondering something here...If indeed ANN is so reliable, why don't we know who wrote this article or where it came from? Do we know the credentials of this individual or not? How is it that this information was come by? Is this all just a hoax or a scorned former member of CR trying to have their revenge?...I actually find this article more dubious than in fact what it is proposing. Why? There are a lot of people out there that write fake stories and try to get them published for one reason or another, and as of right now I have no proof to the contrary of this article falling into that category.
---> EDIT: Keep in mind the recent stories that have been in the news about the deluge of autobiographies and other works of fiction that have been turning out to be fabrications. Also note that these were all published by noteworthy publishers... Last edited by sheighton on Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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