Forum - View topicOtakon 2008 Fansubs and Industry Panel
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luisedgarf
Posts: 660 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
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Hello, dude? Have you even traveled or even investigate about other cultures besides the U.S. and Japan? FYI, Spanish language (and in my case, Mexican Spanish) is also as polite as Japanese, and sometimes even more. (Heck, even some Spanish-speaking Japanese friends complain that we Mexicans speak even more polite than many Japanese people in their own language). Just to get an idea about the politeness of Mexican Spanish, just look the Spanish honorifics, especially how they're use in Mexico: Señor: Mr. Señora: Mrs. Señorita: Miss Señorito or Joven: Similar to the-sama or goshunjin-sama honorific in Japanese, normally used by butlers or maids from richer Mexican families. Licenciado or Ingeniero: Used by people with a Universitary degree, if you meet a person with a degree and also have his own office, you MUST ALWAYS used the "licenciado" honorific or you will get in trouble (especially, if you are a foreigner) Don (male) or Doña (female): Used by married people older by 50 years or more. Other examples is: It's not the same using "¿Como estas? (How are you?) since is the informal way than saying "¿Como esta usted? (the same thing but in polite language) or even more complex and more polite "¿Como se encuentra usted?" "¿Que tal le va? and other variations. And another thing: If many Japanese-to-English fansubbers try to be so literal when they're translating Japanese stuff: Why they're rarely bother to do the same with other East Asian languages like Chinese or Korean? (Korean is EVEN more polite than Japanese) |
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bobsicle
Posts: 8 |
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I can't speak for the Korean language, but the Chinese language is less formal than the Japanese with regards to any sort of linguistic hierarchy. It's more akin to English where a specific title (generally regarding occupation) is used (where appropriate). I'd say there is substantially easier transition when translating Chinese into English than Japanese into English in this regard. Heck, even Chinese fansubs don't attempt to translate the Japanese honorifics. 
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luisedgarf
Posts: 660 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
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But I remember that Chinese have more honorifics than Japanese, (well, according with Wikipedia and some books about Chinese language that I readed here in Mexico)
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bobsicle
Posts: 8 |
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The list given on Wikipedia (more than I ever really wanted to know) is hopelessly outdated when compared with contemporary usage. It's also somewhat deceptive with regards to how those "honorifics" are used. A good portion of them are general adjectives that do not necessarily depend on one's professional or social status. For example: the "honorific" that could be applied to someone that is more respected than you or holds a more senior position is 老（lao). However that character also has the literal definition of "old." In this case, you would almost always defer the usage of that character to the age definition before social/professional status. Calling someone younger than you 老 would be extremely awkward, even if they were your professional superior. Not to say this is the only interpretation; there's definitely a little wiggle room with this stuff. |
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Daimao Raki
 Posts: 593 Location: Dark Side of the Moon |
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GATSU
Posts: 15365 |
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bill: The problem with BV is their "bells and whistles" consist of a box and collectibles no one wants.
gatotsu:
One Piece wasn't given an immediate uncut, bilingual, release until last year, and is a prime example of what they're referring to, I imagine. Though I guess you could also include the leftover titles at 4Kids. Xanas: Shin Chan isn't technically censored as much as padded with more dirty jokes. The main story is still the same in each ep. |
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billborden
 Posts: 73 |
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I'm going to ignore most of the flame bait here and just mention a few things--my background extends into both linguistics and semiotics, I have a deep knowledge of Latin, old and middle English, and a passing knowledge of French and German. Actually I never directly touched Spanish; it's not a language I needed. I admit my Japanese is weak--that's why I rely on native speakers whenever possible. Even more to the point here, We were not discussing Spanish, or, for that matter Korean or Chinese. I was making a direct comparison between English and Japanese, the languages we were talking about. To be honest, I really couldn't discuss Korean or Chinese, as I only have the barest understanding of their specific structures. |
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billborden
Posts: 73 |
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Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. My only hope is for a reasonably priced box-set coming out later or rich friends 
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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Also, the companies know very well what sells: Boobs, blood, samurai, ninjas, etc. and what doesn't sell: Moe, slice of life, old shows, etc. It isn't rocket science just to figure out what people will and will not buy. |
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crilix
Posts: 208 |
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kokuryu
 Posts: 915 |
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When BD players reach the sub-$100 mark and BD disc reach the sub-$15 mark, then it will be popular. Until then, dream on. The largest core set of current anime fans are under 21 and live on an allowance and do not buy their own AV equipment. They are the ones that absolutely will not pay for anime and download and view the most anime.
I think that anime production companies need to (1) keep the original titles of the anime that they produce, (2) put out subbed versions before doing dubs, or released them both extremely quickly - I am not going to remember 2 to 5 years after a show has aired who got the rights for it and to look for it on a US DVD - I will have purchased the R2 versions by then, (3) put out subbed digital files that you can toggle the subs on and off - there are times when I want to watch it sans subs to see the animation more. Anyways, overall a very positive forum. The future looks good. |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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I am typing this reply via phone so I apologize if it's sloppy.
Though it's not mentioned here, (I have not seen the video but I don't notice it in replies) I personally enjoy the karoke subs. That's one aspect of DVDs that doesn't appeal to me. I love the openings and endings with romaji and English. I also like the different colors depending on who's speaking or the battle move being done. As much as I love those they don't hinder my ablity to buy, but I do wish companies would look into them. While I'm on the subject, I have yet to replace my Naruto boots with legit ones. Are the subs in the show as tiny as the ones in the opening? On tv? I have a pretty good tv setup, but I can barely read the pale yellow font, compared to DB's bigger brighter subs. I am in no way a sub only person but when it comes to naruto, one piece and bleach I can't watch them in Eng. The only viz boxset I own is Ranma 1/2 and I don't remember being pleased. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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I thought it interesting that the guy from Media Blasters was adamant on the point that download or streaming will never cover the costs on its own, regardless. He seemed pessimistic at best, though they seem confident in their niche business model. From that, it appears the current numbers don't work out at any reasonable price, and producers should only expect a bit of supplemental income from online. Unless merchandising were to take off here, DVD sales will still count for the majority of profits. I agree with the point earlier that there are "viewers" and "collectors". The viewers can be brought to contribute via paying online, and the collectors pay the same or more for DVDs. The days of preventing people from watching anime until R1 DVDs are produced are gone, period, and never to return. I still think that to get any sizeable percentage of viewers to pay, the price will have to be lower (maybe a subscription model like cable TV) and quality equal to fansubs. The point made about having to pay per episode at all shows the challenge of online distribution, and we aren't even talking TV quality. It's up to the industry to figure out how to make money on it. Yes, conditions may make it impossible right now, but if you're old like me, you recall paying $1.00 per minute for long distance calls to 50 miles away. Things change. For instance, if the Japanese could monetize even 50% of the global market, seems to me they could make a profit. There is or will be a way to do that, if everyone decides they are willing. Or they aren't... and uh, General Motors shrinks, causing economic devastation for whole regions because of unwillingness to change to address new challenges. I love the Chinese proverb that the Crunchyroll guy quoted: "When the winds of change begin to blow, some people build shelters, and some build windmills. " Let's dream lots of windmills. |
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Ultenth
 Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Americanization was a minor issue in my arguement, but since that seems to be the focus at the moment that's what I'll address. Many comedies in Japan use puns based on the language or use of Kanji quite regularly, and often when these are translated into english the pun is removed completely and the comedy is removed as well. There are also many circumstances where shows are very heavily Japanese, and have lots of elements of history and religion and other, such as Rental Magica. Often the fansubbers for these series will add notations in order to fully explain the historical, religious or cultural referances, and sometimes even add note pages before or after the show as well. 9/10 times when these shows are brought over the US companies do not do the same, and so a lot of the culture shown in the episodes is lost because they dumb it down or ignore them altogether.
Regardless, my main issue is the continued lack of support in the outside of Japan market for non-collectors. Inside of Japan non-collectors can get the TV channels they wish, and watch the anime or even tape and collect it directly off TV if they wish. Outside of Japan our ONLY option that seems to be available is DVD. Yes, the same issue is there if you want to watch shows from other countries (outside of England usually that you often can get in the US) but no other country outside of the US creates the same volume of shows. Because of the amount produced it's often very hard to know which shows are good and which shows are crap, because reviewers often have different tastes so you can't always rely on that. Many companies are moving towards this already, but until more take into consideration the non-collector customer, and provide them with a reasonable and cost-efficient way to watch the show once and then delete it (or stream it or watch it via a TV channel), those customers will often instead simply choose to use fansubs. |
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luisedgarf
Posts: 660 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
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The same thing happens here with American movies, especially those movies that uses too many American-specific jokes and references in the same way that Japanese stuff does. (You should watch some movies that uses too many American humor like Undercover Brother who relies too much about jokes and stereotypes about Black and White people in the U.S., especially many obscure references like Black people and fried chicken and stuff, many of those references are difficult to translate outside the U.S., even in subbed versions of that movie) The point is, in the case of American movies, is rarely used and frowned on the use of worthless notations here in Mexico in official subbed versions, since you should try to find yourself that info, instead of cluttering the screen with that info, and maybe the anime fans should do the same, instead of asking anime companies to do the same thing that fansubbers do just to "educate" the audience, even if the audience doesn't give a damn about that topic. |
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