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Hey, Answerman! [2008-09-19]


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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:14 pm Reply with quote
Hon'ya-chan wrote:
jsevakis wrote:
At least Nielsen Media Research TRIES to be scientific about their polling methods, and has improved in recent years, though there's still a lot to be desired in their accuracy.


Tries =/= Accurate. Like I ask, how is it that one Households Viewing Habits = XXXXXX households in the USA? So if this one household say, orders PPV Shows and watches Showtime exclusively, that means the other households in that representation also does the exact same thing? Or howabout a Household that just airs TBN and other Christian Channels? Howabout one that just only watches Deadliest Catch?

It's a flawed way to obtain ratings and needs to be dumped in favor of other more accurate methods.


Dude, that's like the most fundamental concept that all statistics are based on. If a random sample of decent size produces certain results, those results will also roughly apply to the larger group. Here's a simplified example: Lets say 100 people are surveyed. Lets also say there are 10,000 people overall from which those 100 are taken. That means if we weight each of those 100 people as 100 viewers (100 x 100 = 10,000) then we can find the approximate number that likely watched out of the full 10,000. If it were say 23 people, that means statistically, roughly 2,300 people watched it.

Yes, with a very small sample you risk happening to have more of one type of person that another, but as long as you maintain a decent sized group, it's relatively likely to even out. It's by no means perfect but again, it's the principle on which all statistics are based. It's just not possible to actually survey every single person. It's results are going to be at least roughly representative of reality which is far more than can be said of basing it on who can post the most angry messages on AS' message board.
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TheVok



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 613
Location: North York, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Who Is This Guy!? wrote:
But let's say IF we were in some whacked 72nd Dimension where you CAN divide by zero...Team Venture would pwn all. Wink


Hells yeah, brother.

If Aeon Flux had never been produced, The Venture Bros. could very well be my favourite TV series of all time, animated or non.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3492
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Takeyo wrote:
vashfanatic wrote:
But yeah, especially the older I get, the more I become sick of everyone in anime being 15, even when it makes no sense whatsoever for them to be 15 (this my only complaint about Gankutsuou, for example).


I agree with the sentiment in general, but how did it not make sense for some of the characters to be teenagers in Gankutsuou? I'm pretty sure Albert was just turning sixteen in the original Dumas story, and it seems natural that most of his friends would be a similar age. Plus, he couldn't have been made much older without having to alter the Edmond Dantes chronology.


Because they're all engaged to be married, don't attend school, and one of them has already had distinguished military service; it would make a lot more sense for all of them (Albert included) to be 18-21, which would only bump the elder generations' age up by a few years, which isn't unbelievable anyway, given their positions of high leadership. And I could mention that they're all way older than that in the original book, although since the series plays fast and loose with the original (usually improving it, IMnsHO), it is better for them to be younger, but not that young.

...

Yeah, Nielsen ratings don't take into account specialized audiences, which is ridiculous; just "demographics," and the otaku demographic isn't one of the ones they count. We don't make up enough of the vague 18-24 year-olds (as though you can tell what we all watch based on our age). But since they based this all on how much commercial time they can sell, gross numbers count, I guess...?

...Not that I watch dubbed anime much anyway, just a few exceptions, but still! We're the ones who buy this stuff, so you'd think that they'd at least get some advertising from companies that sell anime, manga, and various other (stereotypically) otaku-related stuff... comic book movies, I would think, would make good filling in time-slots.

Some of it is, I think, that they're scared to have cartoons with "mature content" on any earlier for fear of having idiot parents let their children watch these shows assuming that they're innocent and kid-friendly and then protesting. Hopefully shows like South Park, Family Guy, and (*shudder*) Drawn Together will eventually break this trend in moronic-ness, but as someone who witnessed a parent bring a 3-year old to watch Metropolis, it's still a long time until we can get people to realize that animated does not mean kid-friendly.
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BrothersElric



Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 1996
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:47 pm Reply with quote
Actually, my own manga storyline I've been thinking up (man I really need to get that thing organized.......) is indeed in a college setting. And guess what, it's a shounen series too, so take that! Razz The reason though, well, take a look at what a poster earlier already said:
Quote:
At that age a great upheaval is happening in your life. For some it's a ripple and for others it is lafe altering, sometimes to destruction. That kind of dynamism is precisely what can make a good story. Regardless of that story being physically set in school or elsewhere, people undergo changes in body and mind at that age which makes good stories plausable, while also alowing the stupid stuff and lack of subtlety of that age drive things.

When you are older, a lot of your rough edges have been worn away by life and regret, and the stories are different. But the changes of teen years, AND the interaction between older experience and young brashness make a story that moves... because life also can move like that. Much of the background stroy of full metal panic has older interactions with younger protagonists, and often points to where the elders would take the safer road where the young wish not to.
Basically the big difference between my series and the typical kind of high school aged drama in most other shounen series is in the sense of the different kinds of challenges and drama one faces at that particular age, and moreso applying the main shounen themes to them rather than adolescent ones.

Although it's still not void of high school drama though, in fact the basic backstory that all of my main characters center around is indeed a high school drama setting. But instead of overcoming those problems they faced back then at that specific time, that is instead the "tragic past" so to speak that led them to their state at college age; full of regret and partially worn (though still at a young age, but more emotionally than anything else) because they now have to deal with adjusting to a whole new world where the things that wore them, gave them so much regret and are even left unresolved and torturing them inside has been left behind. But in a sense though, I can't help but think I'm sending a message to both age groups; make the best of your lives with no regrets at that young age while you still can for the high school kids while at the same time sending the inspirational and invigorating message of shounen that applies to anyone of any age, applying it to their trials.

Anyways, as for the whole anime vs. US TV/movies thing goes, I'm with those who are saying they're both on par, the best of each medium being better than the worst of each medium and whatnot. I will say that. However, I actually do think there is one advantage that anime has about it that makes it special from those other mediums (American animation included) and that is, naturally being animation and all, the zero boundaries that the world of animation can create, leaving far more room for innovativeness. Now the reason why it even separates itself from American animation is because American animation sort of takes advantage of this, but it doesn't do it NEARLY to the same extent that anime does. Other than that one advantage though they are pretty much on par. But I guess at the same time that's one of the things that makes anime so special, because of how boundless the world of animation is and how it's used to make it on par with US TV/movies, maybe even then some with that slight advantage.
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Bika-chan



Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:38 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
Isn't InuYasha vacating that 5 AM slot? I don't think it killed InuYasha. (Nothing can kill Inu?)

Inu-Yasha finished it's run at 12:30am. You're thinking of the reruns. The many many many reruns of the show...

Unless you meant the fact that they still air the reruns and that it's showing 5am in the first place. I just don't understand why.
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Josh7289



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 1252
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:11 pm Reply with quote
They better not remove the shows completely.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Bika-chan wrote:

Inu-Yasha finished it's run at 12:30am. You're thinking of the reruns. The many many many reruns of the show...

Unless you meant the fact that they still air the reruns and that it's showing 5am in the first place. I just don't understand why.


Yeah, I mean in the last few months when I was still up at 2 am Inu would air on the Eastern feed. Which is when I watched Code Geass Saturday.

Why are they throwing FMA back on?
Fangirls.
I would watch Inu at 2AM if I wasn't headed to bed. It. like FMA is a title one can watch many times & still enjoy.
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StickyToffeePopcorn



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 61
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:06 am Reply with quote
Quote:
that 5:30 am "death slot" is basically where shows go to die.


no wai

Anyway, Ah My Goddess is also set in college, in case nobody else mentioned it. It also features some stuff about college societies and that kind of junk.
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Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:34 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
That means if we weight each of those 100 people as 100 viewers (100 x 100 = 10,000) then we can find the approximate number that likely watched out of the full 10,000.


....which does not accurately rates the shows, which also means that the results can be skewed, leading to false positives.

Seriously, your also forgetting views in "public" venues like sports bars and the like. If those results were taken into account, alot of Sports Programs would be raking in ratings.
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:07 am Reply with quote
On AMVs: Sturgeon's law applies here as much as it does everywhere else (that is, 90% of everything is crap), but I think the good AMVs really are good promotion. For example, I remember once there was a discussion on the Princess Tutu LJ community about how they got into the show--I think more than 50% of the people that responded said they got into the show after seeing the award-winning AMV "Hold Me Now". I didn't (I started watching the show on Anime Network On Demand), but Hold Me Now was one of the things that convinced me to spend the money on the DVDs.
Also, I've bought albums based on songs I've heard in AMVs.
So, yeah, they actually CAN be promotional, particularly the GOOD ones. Of course that's not true all the time for every fan, I'm sure.

On the Answerfans question: ...Yeah. Sturgeon's law again: 90% of everything is crap. But here in the US, we don't get all of the anime that comes out, and anime companies do a decent job of filtering out a lot of the crap (they have to, in today's market...), so I don't think we see it as much as we do with American TV shows. And even with fansubs, or fansubbers going to work on a show if they don't like it, or if they don't think other people will? So, I think anime fans tend to assume "anime must be better! The Japanese are geniuses!"
I think it probably helps that anime seems "different" and "unique" to us, too, since it's from a different culture.
...That being said, I don't watch American TV much. Most of it just isn't what I'm looking for. (There are exceptions. I'm a rabid fan of Pushing Daisies, for example. Oh, and WordGirl. Best PBS show in a long time. ...Yes I watch PBS cartoons. I used to work at a daycare!)

On anime set in college: From what I've seen of Welcome to the NHK!, I know some of the plot deals with the main character's inability to stay in college, thanks to his social anxiety. I just took a quick look at my anime shelf, though, and I literally don't own a single series set in a college besides Death Note. (I was renting NHK.) However, I own...9 series set in a high school or middle school in my collection. Which doesn't sound like it's that many, but I've only been collecting for the last two or three years, and I'm a college student on a budget, so...I think that's well over half of the series I own. Just a random tidbit.
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rti9



Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1241
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:31 am Reply with quote
Showsni wrote:
Hon'ya-chan wrote:
It's a flawed way to obtain ratings and needs to be dumped in favor of other more accurate methods.


Such as?

We're still waiting for some examples, Hon'ya-chan.
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Ambrogino



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 57
Location: York, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:08 am Reply with quote
rti9 wrote:
Showsni wrote:
Hon'ya-chan wrote:
It's a flawed way to obtain ratings and needs to be dumped in favor of other more accurate methods.


Such as?

We're still waiting for some examples, Hon'ya-chan.


Well I for one can't believe that in this day of interactive television functionality a signal can't be sent back with channel requests and a log kept of the time spent watching each channel. Amalgamate the results, compare those to the schedule and your sample size has gone up considerably. Give people the option to opt out to protect their privacy if they wish, (which would probably scew the rating of stuff like pornography downwards, but nothings perfect).
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:21 am Reply with quote
Ambrogino wrote:
Give people the option to opt out to protect their privacy if they wish, (which would probably scew the rating of stuff like pornography downwards, but nothings perfect).
I doubt anyone will notice that one.
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Shousetsuka



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 25
Location: Nagoya, Japan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:30 am Reply with quote
Asking if anime is better than American TV is like asking if apples are better than potatoes. I don't even think they are in the same category. As a person who lives in Japan, I can say there is a ton of crappy shows on TV, the same as America. Sometimes you strike it good, sometimes you don't. What Japanese show can compare to House or 24? Not saying that these shows are vastly better, but what you can do and the money you have to do it is vastly different.

Moreover, not all American cartoons are like Spongebob. Avatar: The Last Airbender was an amazing show, one that was well thought out and beautifully executed. Both kids and adults could watch it, and it didn't suffer from filler-episode doom like a lot of the Jump shows. Moreover, it didn't try to be anime-like with exaggerated reactions and SD characters (except when it made fun of itself).

There is good and bad sides to both anime and American TV. To rank one over the other isn't doing justice to the masterpieces that exist in both areas.
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TheVok



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 613
Location: North York, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:52 am Reply with quote
Ambrogino wrote:
Well I for one can't believe that in this day of interactive television functionality a signal can't be sent back with channel requests and a log kept of the time spent watching each channel. Amalgamate the results, compare those to the schedule and your sample size has gone up considerably. Give people the option to opt out to protect their privacy if they wish, (which would probably scew the rating of stuff like pornography downwards, but nothings perfect).


It depends on the technology. I use satellite TV, which has some level of interactivity due to the software in the digital box, but which has no way of sending information back to the provider, unless I specifically opted to link it to my phone line for pay-per-view orders and such, which I don't. (I've never understood the appeal of pay-per-view ... on-demand, yes, but pay-per-view, no.)

But if everyone winds up on digital cable--or some similar technology--then yes, it's two-way and could collect data in the way you describe.

Remember, though, that it's no guarantee niche programming will get higher ratings. They could actually end up lower.
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