Forum - View topicBest Duo Tournament: RESULTS.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18234 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Yes, but does any of that actually make Spike and Jet a good duo? And does their series being "overrated" make the FMA brothers a bad duo by comparison? Enh, honestly, I don't know why I'm bothering. Ed and Al will win by a landslide regardless of whether or not I argue in their favor.
Kurau Phantom Memory is very decidedly a sci fi series; it takes place in 2100 AD, includes space travel and futuristic tech, and a significant portion of its key events happen on the Moon. As for the context of the clip (the clip is from ep 2 and all of the groundwork is laid early in ep 1, so I don't consider these details spoilers): For her 12th birthday young Kurau visited her father's place of work on the Moon, where he was developing experimental energy sources. During an accident in the experiment Kurau became bonded with an alien energy life form called the Rynax which was called into this world by the experiment, essentially creating a composite being and, in essence, giving her superhuman powers. The Rynax did not know how to unbond from Kurau and was reluctant to try while its injured Pair (Rynax exclusively exist as pairs) was in hibernation within Kurau's body, so it promised Kurau's father that it would look after Kurau's body and keep it safe until such time as the Pair woke up and they could figure out how do separate themselves. Ten years passed, and Kurau grew up and became an elite Agent, before the Pair finally manifested, taking on a virtual copy of the physical form Kurau had at the time of the bonding (except for much longer hair) and being given the name Christmas by Kurau, a name which, as you find out near the end of the series, holds special significance to Kurau beyond just the joyous (or, in the Japanese sense, romantic) implications of the holiday. This video clip, from the end of episode 2, is part of a larger flashback sequence which explains further about the examinations done on Kurau after she became bonded with the Rynax and establishes why Kurau wasn't living with her father when the story jumped forward 10 years. It's very typical of the kind of sentiment, bonding, and emotion the whole series packs, and why no one who's seen the series ever votes against Kurau and Christmas or bad-mouths them; notice that they're the only duo with a clean sweep of votes so far this round, and that includes Trigun fans? (And note the doves in that scene, too. Given that doves are known to mate for life, it's a subtle but strong metaphor.) Really, I'm not sure who in the tourney could beat them at this point. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Um...the Elric Brothers could?
Ha ha, I said that Kurau and Christmas could give them a run for their money, but I didn't say I'd vote for them against Ed and Al, because I'm much more in favor or Ed and Al, personally. They're both tough contenders, so it could get bloody. Oh, joy. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18234 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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They're the only ones that I could see having a reasonable chance at this point, since they have a similar kind of bond and FMA supports them just as strongly. It will certainly be a heavily-campaigned and hard-fought battle, but the sense I'm getting is that the groundswell of support building behind Kurau/Christmas may be enough to push them over the top. The fact that there are a handful of FMA haters out there could also work towards balancing out FMA's greater popularity and name recognition. But this is all, of course, just speculation, and several weeks off at that. Both still have to win this round and the next to get there, although I can't see anyone in Group C being strong enough to even come close to preventing that titanic match-up from happening. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Are you sure you're not thinking about that backwards? The lower a show's rank, the more popular it is. I went and made a nice big excel worksheet for the sake of looking at this aspect of the tournement. Lots of nested if statements to work it out. Thank you ccdx for indirectly teaching me the COUNTIF function. The first round favored the more popular or better like shows: 61% of shows that had been seen by more people won (meaning 39% of shows seen by fewer people won). 64% of shows with higher scores won (meaning 36% of shows with lower scores won). 24 of the winning duos from the first round were from the series that had more views and a better score. 17 were from the series that had a better score but was less viewed. 15 were from the series that was more viewed but had a lower score. 8 were from the series that was both less viewed and had a lower score. The reason there's no difference between my results for standard, weighted, and Bayesian average is that I used the ratings for the second Lupin III series, but the viewer count for the first series, one of the few ocassions (I think I've come across 4 total so far) when using the score from a different series changed which was more popular. Interestingly, the second round did show a little more favor for the less popular series. 46% of series that were more viewed or had a better rating won (thus 54% of series that were less viewed or had a lower rating won). |
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Luxa
 Posts: 65 Location: Budapest/Érd, Hungary |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop I don't really like neither Ed, nor FMA that much. (Ok, I admit, Ed annoys me), but Ed and Al proved during the long run of their series that they are mutually supportive of each other and are willing to risk and sacrifice themselves if the protection of their sibling necessitates it. I think the end of the anime highlights this really neatly. (Meaning the end of the series, I didn't like the spoiler[ alternate Earth] thing, so haven't watched the movie.) I haven't seen Cowboy Bebop yet (Having a legendarily awful release here doesn't help.), but I'm vaguely familiar with Spike and Jet's relationship and this wasn't enough to convince me otherwise. Same goes for the guide and comments so far. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC I suppose I shall end up in the minority, but I'm voting for Emeraude and Zagato here. And trying to provide an excuse for Key and for those who might be still undecided. My reasoning consist of two parts: why I think that Batou and Motoko aren't that great a pair and why I think the other pair is. For the first part I note that I saw both original movies, both series and even the follow-up Solid State Society so that makes pretty much everything animated about them. (I neglected the Tachikoma specials.) But the media they have been nominated from is the Stand Alone Complex TV series, and I think here it makes a difference, because they aren't portrayed exactly the same in the original movies. One of my points is that in the series they are parts of a team not a duo. Sure, they work well together, but they doesn't really overshine Togusa, Pazu, Saito etc. Section 9 works as a whole, as the sum of its members, not as a background organization supporting Motoko and Batou. They have their moments, but so had Togusa and Aramaki. (The rest tends to have episodes in the limelight as well.) My other point is that their relationship is asymmetrical in the series. Batou really likes, most likely loves Motoko but she does not reciprocate his feelings, as a matter of fact she acts kind of distant with the rest of the entire team as well. spoiler[(May or may not have something to do with Kuze.)] She might defrost a bit by the end of GitS:SAC:SSS, but even then she acts too detached for me to consider them a strong pair, clearly not on the level of... Emeraude and Zagato. Now this is impossible to argue this point without spoiling the series. It is naturally safe to read if you never ever like to watch the show, but the exact history of their relationship might ruin the experience. So a block of black text follows. spoiler[ I think it is not that a surprise after seeing them nominated in this tournament, but they love each other. Really-really hard. Let me dump some vital background info on you in case you are not familiar with the series. Princess Emeraude is the Pillar of Cephiro, meaning that she must pray constantly (at least when she is awake) to mantain Cephiro, which is a world based on and shaped by belief. If she thinks about anything else than the well-being of Cephiro, it is going to rapidly fall apart. The other half of the pair is Zagato, her high priest (so he is somewhat tasked with the upholding of the pillar system and tending to Emeraude), who becomes enchanted with the goodness of the Princess and falls in love with her, which feeling she returns. But this love diverts the thoughts of Emeraude from Cephiro which starts to crumble. Realising that her feelings will bring the end of the world, she imprisons herself to keep away Zagato and summons three magical girls to kill her, because being pillar is a job for life. The ensuing situation shows the strength of their bond really well. Zagato is willing to sacrifice everything for Emeraude to live a bit longer including the world they live in, so he sends all he has against the girls, ultimately dying protecting the princess. Emeraude considers Cephiro her paramount duty, but her love overwrites this dedication, she can't bear seeing Zagato's wounds and even heals him before his final confrontation. His death drives her mad and then throws Cephiro aside, trying to finish which her lover started: killing the leads. (Hey, at least she could have succeeded with Hikari...) ] So my overall point is that the willingness to sacrifice everything spoiler[ else one holds dear for one's love ] trumps a bit one sided relationship which isn't really special within the series discussed. (But I think the Rayearth pair wins even if we consider the original movies.) Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon Voting for Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel becuse the preceding comments quite convinced me. Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory I really value the Trigun pair's dedication, loyalty and friendship for each other, but here they are facing the strongest non-romantic bond I have ever seen. And they achieve this by portraying two characters, who complete each other perfectly, yetspoiler[ they position in the relationship is interchangeable without them being identical]. And this makes them the clear winner of the match, and at least for me, Group C as well. |
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velocet
Posts: 240 |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist [ Video Link ] vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop [ Video Link ] Voting for: Ed & Alphonse Elric Reason: They have a very strong bond as brothers. As a duo, I'm a bit less convinced, but in terms of their bond alone, they are very, very strong. However, while I don't agree to the extent of voting against them here, I do agree with a lot of Murasakisuishou's comments regarding these two, and I'm certainly taking it on board for the next round. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth [ Video Link ] vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC [ Video Link ] Voting for: Motoko Kusanagi & Batou Reason: Even though I have a real soft spot for MKR as one of the first things I read/saw after getting back into anime after a break of several years, the pull of a great tragic romance isn't enough when compared with one of the best multi-layered relationships left in this tournament. It's all becoming so straightforward, it's almost dull! Thank goodness we have the strong dynamic of Motoko and Batou's complex relationship. Though a great deal of their non-professional relationship seems to be very much orchestrated by Batou, you have to take into account Motoko's reticent personality. Even in the scenes she's shown with her female friends, she's still pretty distant - that's just who she is. Yes, Section 9 is a team - but where was the same level of interaction between Motoko and Pazu or Borma? Would she tease Ishikawa the way she did in the 2nd half of the clip? Would she sit lounging by the company pool drinking cocktails with Aramaki? No, but she's happy to do all of these things with Batou. They may be a group, but in terms of Motoko's interaction with the other members of section 9, it just wasn't there. Togusa has a stronger case, but their relationship is far more like a mentor-mentee relationship. Fundamentally, it's clear that there's no social aspect to their interaction. The little flashes of emotion between them are all the more precious because of this though. I'm far more engaged by a duo that makes me peel the layers of their relationship back myself than one hands it to me on a plate. Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender [ Video Link ] vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon [ Video Link ] Voting for: Jessie & James Reason: Partially because I feel quite sorry for them, partially because I wasn't really as impressed by the Blue Gender video as I had hoped to be, but mostly because I still think they're great fun, and deserving of more votes in this round. Jessie and James are from a kids show - of course they don't have the same depth as their opponents, but that's not the purpose they serve as a duo. They aren't meant to have depth - they're meant to be awesomely dreadful comedy villains. Dismissing them for their lack of depth seems as silly as dismissing Marlene and Yuji for their lack of comic interplay. Why does a duo need to have some deep emotional bond to be considered a 'true' duo? Why can't they just be great fun? I was already well outside of Pokemon's demographic when it took off, so there's no rose-tinted nostalgia going on here, I just think they really made their show - who really watched Pokemon to see if Ash got a Toadstool Badge and won the ultra-mega-platinum tournament? There's not a chance they'll win this match up, so this isn't campaigning, just letting another bee out of my bonnet. Seems there's a veritable hive forming in there... Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun [ Video Link ] vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory [ Video Link ] Voting for: Christmas & Kurau Reason: Sadly, I still haven't seen their series (this will be remedied before the next round, though) but the tremendous support speaks for itself. Meryl and Millie were never truly winner material, and this round is the end of the line for them. They're a good duo, but not a great one. |
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop Voting for: Ed & Al Reason: Yes, I think the tornado match-up is going to happen. And I really hope Ed & Al don't lose since they certainly went farther than their respective group in my bracket. I really can't understand how people are questioning them as a duo. Ed's whole quest is to get Al's body back. He continues to say, "well, yeah, my arm and leg too," but makes it clear that his brother is his first concern. Hell, he gave those original things to get back his brother's soul. As far as the whole series being about "them not telling each other things," that's a totally realistic aspect of a sibling relationship! I know there have been things I keep from my younger sister in the interest of protection, and I am sure there are things she doesn't tell me because she doesn't want to be condescended to. Regardless of whether or not you like them, strive to be objective in important match-ups. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC Voting for: Batou & Motoko Reason: this is based solely on the opinions of others, though their identity as a duo is even more ambiguous than Rock & Revy. Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon Voting for: vote change Jesse & James Reason: see later post Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory Voting for: Kurau & Xmas Reason: strong campaigning for these two. Last edited by rainbowcourage on Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Group C-25
Voting for: Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist Reason: Is an explanation really necessary here? I agree with what everyone else says -- they're on par with Kurau and Christmas as a duo. That, and I just don't see Spike and Jet as a "duo," though they do make a good team. Group C-26 Voting for: Motoko Kusanagi & Batou from Ghost in the Shell: SAC Reason: It was kinda hard because I like both duos, but I can't seem to view Emeraude and Zagato as a stronger one than Motoko and Batou. I've seen both series, but there's something about the latter two that I feel surpasses the former but I just can't place it right now. I'll say that I agree with other arguments for now. Group C-27 Voting for: Jessie & James from Pokemon Reason: I was about to concede, until I read velocet's post. I'll give props to Yuji and Marlene, but I haven't argued Jessie and James all this time for nothing. And you could say that I'm being difficult. 
Group C-28 Voting for: Kurau & Christmas from Kurau Phantom Memory Reason: Ahh, they're moving along again. I really don't have much more to add; waiting for the finals and such. |
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist [ Video Link ] vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop [ Video Link ] Voting for: Ed and Al Reason: No contest, in my view. We have the brothers, who are working together toward a common goal, each to heal the other's injuries. Spike and Jet can work together, but function just as well on their own. They really don't need each other in the same way as Ed and Al. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth [ Video Link ] vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC [ Video Link ] Voting for: Motoko and Batou Reason: Others arguments. Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender [ Video Link ] vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon [ Video Link ] Voting for: Yuji Kaidou and Marlene Angel Reason: clips Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun [ Video Link ] vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory [ Video Link ] Voting for: Christmas and Kurau Reason: I did enjoy Meryl and Milly's partnership in Trigun. However, they're business partners and function just as well on their own. Christmas and Kurau aren't the same people when the other isn't there. They need each other more. |
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Bluebeard
 Posts: 267 Location: Massachusetts |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop Voting for: Edward & Alphonse Elric Reason: Ahhh. It's about time Spike & Jet took their long deserved fall. I've been adamantly against them since the first round, and it's unfortunate it took this long to be rid of them. So long Spike & Jet. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC Voting for: Batou & Motoko Reason: Both the video clips and user feedback was enough to convince me that these two deserve the vote this round. Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon Voting for: Jessie & James Reason: I really like Team Rocket as a duo. I really do not care much for Pokemon, but that is irrelevant. Velocet is absolutely right. The times I watched Pokemon I remember enjoying the always expected antics of Team Rocket more than anything else. Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory Voting for: Christmas & Kurau Reason: My vote goes to Christmas & Kurau due to the massive support they are receiving from the majority of the forum users, but also out of vengeful, vengeful spite against Meryl & Milly for defeating Rock & Revy in the previous round. (Mostly spite  )[/b]
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CloverKuroba
 Posts: 506 |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop Voting for: Ed & Alphonse Elric Reason: Their bond and the journey they went through is truly incredible. They might've kept secrets from each other, but can you deny the devotion they had for each other? I think that'd be a hard thing to do... I actually like Cowboy Bebop better than FMA, but I find that Spike and Jet work best as a quartet (along with Ed and Faye). How they can all have such different personalities (though do share some similar turmoil) and work so well as a team is great. But considering this is a tournament about duos, I'll have to give them a pass. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC Voting for: Zagato and Princess Emeraude Reason: Velocet gave a good argument. And I have no problems for this couple, either. Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon Voting for: Yuji Kaidou and Marlene Angel Reason: I'm voting for this duo solely because of other arguments. I haven't seen Blue Gender but apparently, these two really make the series. I think Jessie and James have made it through long enough. Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory Voting for: Christmas & Kurau Reason: Christmas and Kurau's relationship is capable of really touching your heart. I haven't seen the series in a while, but the utter joy in Kurau's voice when she finds Christmas is so emotional. And heck, if one scene alone can make me vote for a pair, I think they might be the couple to beat. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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After thinking it over, I decided to just follow my heart and change my C-27 vote to Jessie and James. (Yes, it's in my original post.)
I mean, Blue Gender was a fun show, and those two were good together, but they're not a "powerhouse duo" and when I thought about, only a powerhouse duo deserves to beat out Jessie and James. As a few people have mentioned, they were the only reason I ever watched Pokemon. I remember giggling everytime the lights went out, the evil cackle went up, wussy-boy--I mean Ash, shouted "Who are you?" and...the motto. The ridiculous motto. So, they're a lot stronger than I originally gave them credit for when I thought about it, and so what if they're not deep? They're supposed to be silly. The whole show is silly. 
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rainbowcourage
Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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I'll change my c-27 vote to Jesse & James as well. What the heck, I'd like to see how far these two hooligans can make it, and there doesn't seem to be die-hard passion for the other pair.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18234 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Those changes currently make C-27 the most competitive face-off in this round; out of 21 votes so far, Yuji and Marlene are now down to a single-digit vote lead (i.e. only 71% of the votes). Hey, get 3-4 more people to change to Jessie/James and they might have a chance. . .
(Note that I am NOT encouraging anyone else to do this.) |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Group C-25
Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist [ Video Link ] vs. Spike Spiegal & Jet Black from Cowboy Bebop [ Video Link ] I believe I have already made my views on Spike & Jet as a duo clear enough that it should come as no surprise to anyone that my vote in this face-off goes unequivocally to Edward & Alphonse Elric. Group C-26 Zagato & Princess Emeraude from Magic Knight Rayearth [ Video Link ] vs. Batou & Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell: SAC [ Video Link ] Again, I think my earlier post made it clear that I don't really consider Motoko and Batou to be that much of a duo. If it had been Batou and the Tachikomas, now... Anyway, I feel very strongly in favour of Emeraude and Zagato, and that's that. Group C-27 Yuji Kaidou & Marlene Angel from Blue Gender [ Video Link ] vs. James & Jessie from Pokemon [ Video Link ] No question in my mind, Jessie and James are finalist candidates. Forget the PokeMon hatred, folks -- this is one of the most memorable pairs in anime, and that's just undeniable. Group C-28 Meryl Stryfe & Milly Thompson from Trigun [ Video Link ] vs. Christmas & Kurau from Kurau Phantom Memory [ Video Link ] The pain... on the one hand, I really think Meryl & Millie deserve a shot at the finals. On the other hand, Kurau and her other half, Christmas, are my pick for winners of this tournament. As such, they get my vote, but not without regret. - abunai |
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