Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Fandoms of Evil
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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But Japanese fame is quite local, while USA exports it's entertaiment worldwide. One TV series made by cable TV, not to mention Hollywood movie and publishers all over the world from line for your works. |
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thenix
 Posts: 265 |
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I think this is an old vs. young question. I think back in the day people (i may include myself) got into anime because it was different. Different in a good way of course. We gave something different a chance because we were bored of watching the same thing over and over. Now Anime is more widespread and it's not really different to just be watching anime. You can be watching naruto on tv then watch one piece and not be different. Therefore I'm saying it might be taken for granted by older fans that people who watch anime enjoy looking for something different or unique, when in reality much of the fandom doesn't want something different. And that goes to say that not everyone that dislikes the show simply doesn't like new things, but I believe in reality that is mostly the case.
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Hagaren Viper
 Posts: 766 |
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It would be kinda neat if there was a Hey Answerfans segment focusing on this idea, or it's own thread or something. Scrolling through this thread, the comments on both sides have been pretty interesting. Would be neat to see debated without all the Flowers of Evil baggage tacked on. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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If we were talking about Hollywood movies, then that would be true, but that's not true in the realm of comics. Unless people want to settle for a making live-action adaptions instead of manga, like Dragonball Evolution for movies or Walking Dead for shows, then Hollywood's omnipresence isn't going to matter in that scheme of things. American comics, however, are extremely isolated to the American market, even to the point of more people seeing the DC/Marvel movies than people reading the actual comics. Manga seems to sell better in other countries than American comics do, so in that regard they have the advantage of worldwide entertainment (or at least in France and other European countries, which is the only foreign places I've ever found sales statistics for. Well, those and Japan obviously) Though your example of Oban brings up a good point. Just because it gets made doesn't mean people will like it or care about it. Most people either didn't care for it or said it wasn't anime and the argument overshadowed the show itself so it flew by the radar. Even if people do get their dream of making something it's not some guaranteed success, unfortunately. |
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ProsesRoses
 Posts: 16 Location: Canada |
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I knew this argument is going to be made. Only SOME manga artists make decent money off their work, it's still the same handful of manga artists dominating their charts and dramatically decreases in sale as you go down the tankoban charts. This handful of successful comic artists are true for both industries, Japan is just a bigger handful. Peepo Choo didn't exactly set the oricon charts on fire and went only for 3 volumes. Graphic novels are getting better reputations as a literary medium. I could go into comics history of how censorship and parental bias basically killed the comics industry during the 70s but blah blah. Why I disparage people who don't want to try in the west is that the western comics industry NEEDS new voices and more development. Honestly Japan doesn't need westerners, they've got their own talent pool. You better damn stand out if you want to try. As for the DC and Marvel dominating the charts, I checked the NY times list (graphic novel paperback), 7/10 were not them - Image Comics was a large part of that 7 which is great because they let creators keep the copyrights of their creations unlike those two. And oh, the recent Eisner Award nominations? Fantagraphics had the most publisher noms at 24, than Image Comics at 17. Marvel had 7, DC at 2. As a personal bias and definitely not necessarily true, but some weaboos want to work in Japan because they are Japophiles, they love it soo much they'd rather succeed there, they want to be Japanese and to be loved by the Japanese. And that strikes as not genuine to comics medium which is to tell great stories despite where ever you get published and NOT JUST JAPAN. (especially when you don't even speak the language). Persopolis is a French comic that has been translated into English and is well regarded. Satrapi could've gone to the USA which has "bigger" audience for comics than France, and even though she is fluent in English, she published in FRANCE. It got really popular, thus got translated in other languages and sells really well. PS: ATTENTION CREATORS. Chromatic Press (company by ex-Editors of Tokyopop) is open for submissions for comics, writers and illustrators: http://chromaticpress.com/magazine/ |
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1819 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Isn't the Francophone comics market bigger than than the Anglophone comics market? |
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ProsesRoses
Posts: 16 Location: Canada |
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I don't know actually, I've heard Europe regards comics a lot better than North Americans but I don't have any numbers or reports to say it so or compare. I put "bigger" in quotations as the USA has a bigger population (300million) than France (65million), thus USA's market is larger (and if you add Canada of 33million) - although this is by country and not speakers as you've mentioned. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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The population doesn't matter much when so very few read comics and even less so manga. I've read the French manga market is the largest in the world outside of Japan. It might have been in one of the Japan Expo articles... I don't know if they are including Belgium and Switzerland in the French market though.
But I don't get the focus on trying to deter him and make him focus on the US market. If he prefers those aesthetics, then he stands a much better chance of either originating from Japan (much harder) or working with Japan and then going global from there. I certainly would not purely focus on the US if I were him, nor even start from the US if writing for or being involved in manga or anime (as he states) were my goal. I would definitely pick France or any number of European countries + Asian countries + Brazil as a starting point over the US in that case, since it is much more well accepted there |
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RAmmsoldat
 Posts: 1261 Location: North wales coast |
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France certainly gets more manga than the english speaking world does.
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EireformContinent
Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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I wouldn't say so- Oban was very popular among teenagers in Europe, had lots of good dubs and nice merchandise. The creator now started another project Two Queens and since it looks like something more adult oriented it seems that he still manages to get on well enough to not agree on compromises. And I beg you to differ Marvel/DC superheroes and American comics. In Europe even if someone never had heard about those two, the titles from Verting have a nice place.
French comics are also usually translated and published across Europe, and in domestic market they have even better position than manga in Japan. Regarding statistics you must also remember that traditional Franco-0Belgian comics aren't weekly cheap books, but large and quite expensive albums published once for several months. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Even if it does 'need' new voices, will the market support those voices? That's the thing.
Superhero comics don't really sell in TPB format. TPBs are reserved for something like Walking Dead where non-comic readers want to get into it after watching the show and find the first TPB since it's easier to track down. Superhero comics sell mostly through single issues and comic shops like on ICv2's list. Speaking of which, does anyone ever report actual sales numbers for TPB sales like Walking Dead in book stores? I've always wondered how much they sell in a year. Despite Naruto always being near the top of the NYT list (best selling graphic novel of the month or whatever), I remember a year or two ago it was reported Naruto only needed to sell like 37,000 copies in a year making it the 'best selling volume' of the year. If you only need 37,000 a year to make it to the top of the New York Times list while in France it's selling for over 200,000, well, that seems like a huge difference in market, especially considering population differences. Just imagine how much it would sell if France had the US's population Of course, these are just sales numbers. Scanlation numbers and other factors obviously indication the fanbase is much bigger on the pirate side than on the legitimate buying side.
Actually, not really. Take a look at the 2011 Yearly Comic Shipment in France. You got far more comics selling in the hundreds of thousands than you do in America. Oddly enough the best selling American comic is apparently The Simpsons at like 150,00 per volume. That comic only sells like 9000 an issue in America, which is kind of odd a random comic like that is the most popular.
Hm, perhaps in Europe where it might have tons of merchandise that eluded me, but in America and Japan it pretty much went completely unnoticed. The American DVD doesn't even have the French or Japanese track.. whichever the original language was. Japan seems to have completely ignored it altogether. No DVDs, no fan-art, no doujinshi, no nothing.
Hey, I agree about the Europe part; like I said France doesn't seem to care one bit for the superhero stuff and prefer other comics, but in America it's a completely different market. It seems like here the only way to break more than 125,000 sales is to be a superhero title and do a super cross-over event that forces people who don't normally buy those titles to buy them either to get the story or to collect. |
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EireformContinent
Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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Japan ignored Oban Star racers and??? Who cares about Japan? Why not measure tthe success by number of readers in Vietnam? Or China, since they are the biggest nation in the world?
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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Because it was a French/Japanese co-production? |
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reanimator
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Just answering some of your questions, Comic Natalie site have interview between Oshimi (manga artist) and Nagahama (director of the anime). Here's the interview (Japanese): http://natalie.mu/comic/pp/akunohana To summarize, both the Oshimi and Nagahama initially thought that live action is more appropriate than typical manga-style animation. According to the artist, the story is loosely based from his adolescence. Since the story connects to readers at personal level, so the director thought that typical anime-look would be rejected by the manga artist. Oshimi wanted something different from the anime than typical manga-to-anime adaptation. Nagahama read the artist's mind and came up with idea that rotoscope would be more natural to portray believable human being than preset manga character. He believes that it's more meaningful with story than usual animation methods. Ultimately, the Oshimi created his manga to shock audience. He and Nagahama wanted to leave deep, "painful" impression to audience by using rarely used animation technique. They already knew that their collaboration would turn off some people, but they took the risk. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Hey Answerfans does not need, in any way, a segment catering to the delusions of weeaboos. Because that's what this guy is: he's a weeaboo and only cares about publishing in Japan because Japan is "NEKO SUGOI DESU". Enabling is a bad thing, kids. |
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