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EP. REVIEW: Dragon Ball Super

Maidenoftheredhand wrote:

Gasero wrote: I understand this juxtaposition, but it was still Vegeta against the power of a god, and the outcome doesn't make sense. Vegeta trained with Whis and Beerus. I don’t see with a bit of a push it is so outside the realm of abilities that he could have beat Toppo. Unless you think it is impossible for anyone to have beaten Toppo.

Toppo trained with Belmond, who also trained Jiren! Jiren, the opponent who Vegeta (and Goku, also trained by Beerus) has barely been able to harm for the entire tournament.

Your calculations still seem off.

So Belmond trained Toppo and Jiren. That still doesn’t mean Toppo was stronger than Jiren. It’s not about calculations but logic.

I don’t see how it is outside the realms of possibility that Vegeta could beat Toppo especially when he put everything into the fight. Vegeta and Goku couldn’t beat Jiren what does that have to do with Vegeta being able to beat Toppo?

I think the main issue is that Toppo, after unleashing his God of Destruction powers has been wiping the floor with everyone he has been going up against, 17 and frieza can't even touch him, and Vegeta's finisher move, Final Flash, was pretty much brushed aside by Toppo, showing how much difference there is between the two. The fact that Vegeta is suddenly able to close that obvious power gap simply through willpower (no new form, no external power up) makes it come off as bad writing.

I can understand that if two fighters are somewhat close in power, and the slightly weaker one managed to surpass the other through sheer willpower (good example of this would by in one piece with luffy beating lucci, they were both torn up by the end of the fight, luffy somewhat worse so, but he pulled off a last minute finisher move due to his determination). But when you have two with a major power gap between them, it shouldn't be that easy.

And also watching the episode I didn’t get that Toppo was soooo ridiculously much stronger than Vegeta. Definitely not in the realms of Beerus vs Vegeta in BOG or Jiren vs Vegeta & Goku. And I think Vegeta is more powerful than 17 & Freeza at this point.

Toppo was definitely stronger than Vegeta but yeah I do think a bit of determination Vegeta could beat Toppo. I mean Toppo got a major power up because he threw away justice and Vegeta was able to beat him because he held onto who he was. Yeah I get that Toppo was training to be a god of destruction okay so what. He still suddenly got a large power boost for throwing away his ideals. But Vegeta being able to beat him through his own determination is too much? In the end it came down to a clash of ideals/philosophies. They both got power boosts from the same source.


People act like Vegeta jumped from 1 to 1000. He has also been training with Gods.

Maidenoftheredhand wrote:

Gasero wrote: I understand this juxtaposition, but it was still Vegeta against the power of a god, and the outcome doesn't make sense. Vegeta trained with Whis and Beerus. I don’t see with a bit of a push it is so outside the realm of abilities that he could have beat Toppo. Unless you think it is impossible for anyone to have beaten Toppo.

Toppo trained with Belmond, who also trained Jiren! Jiren, the opponent who Vegeta (and Goku, also trained by Beerus) has barely been able to harm for the entire tournament.

Your calculations still seem off.

I don't think it's ever been stated in either the manga or anime that Jiren was trained by Belmond. All that's been stated was how Jiren has reached or even surpassed the power of a God of Destruction, being stronger than even his own GoD Belmond.

Also, having the same trainer doesn't mean two characters can't still have a significant gap in power. See the difference between characters like Krillin and Goku, or Chiaotzu and Tien.

Marimo0 wrote:

I don't think it's ever been stated in either the manga or anime that Jiren was trained by Belmond. All that's been stated was how Jiren has reached or even surpassed the power of a God of Destruction, being stronger than even his own GoD Belmond. Also, having the same trainer doesn't mean two characters can't still have a significant gap in power. See the difference between characters like Krillin and Goku, or Chiaotzu and Tien.

I think that the gaps in power are mostly the result of inconsistent writing. In Universe 7, Saiyans are believed to be the strongest and no other race would surpass them. However, in Dragonball Super, Frieza matched Super Saiyan Blue Goku in strength.

If DB Super focused more on strategy then it did on power levels, characters like Krillin and Tien would have still been relevant.