Forum - View topicThe Controversial Legacy of Final Fantasy XII
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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FF12 was the first FF I never even finished, it was just so mind numbingly boring. I don't know what complex strategy was present in the combat system cause all I remember was thinking that it was like an mmo combat, except without positioning and skill rotation, so you just stood there and healed and tanked the damage. On top of that the limit system was really easy to exploit and would allow you to kill enemy far above your level effortlessly (don't quite remember but I think you could chain limit together an infinite number of time). The leveling system was pointless and by the middle of the game I ran out of stuff to purchase on the license board. All the enemy were more or less the same and didn't require any strategy. The gambit system was nice, but it was unnecessary considering how basic the gameplay was, I didn't use the majority of the slot and could easily breeze trough most area.
But ultimately what really sink it was the story and character, it wasn't just Vaan that was completely pointless, Penelo and bunny girl didn't have any reason to be there either. And none of what you did had any real reason, it just felt like you were wandering aimlessly. At some point you meet the pope and he tell you to go to a cave and find a sword, no explanation given as to why. You eventually find out the sword can break crystal that give the bad guy power (Oh yeah BTW the bad guy use crystal to power there stuff, also alien and stuff) but that doesn't fix anything, the bad guy were this ginormous empire, even without the crystal they'd stomproll you. And while the world is called Invalice, it had nothing to do with FFT, only with the far inferior FFTA. I mean, we'd find out it would get way worse, unlike FF13 the story wasn't actively stupid and you'd need to at least program your character for them to do the fighting on there own rather than just press X. |
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Remington Steele
Posts: 63 |
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With the x2 speed and x4 speed, FFXII Zodiac Age is quite nice to play now. It no longer takes forever to walk across a map. The visuals are pretty good n Hi-def for being a 2006 title. You can't expect every pixel to be upgraded. The upgraded visuals are still nice for a 2006 title. Even more fun to play now than in 2006.
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2251 |
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XII was my first FF, which makes it kind of an odd entry for me. I liked the politics and intrigue but was sorely disheartened by the "save the world" story it eventually devolved into. And while Vaan was irritating, it was easy enough for me to ignore him for more useful and interesting characters. The one thing I did like that no one else seems to is the way the original License Board functioned. Having never played an FF before then, the idea of classes was totally unknown to me, and I liked having total freedom in customizing my characters.
All in all, I have mostly positive memories of this game, and it'll be interesting to see how the changes with this remaster. |
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Shadowrun20XX
 Posts: 1935 Location: Vegas |
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12 was fun for the fans of Ivalice. I felt that the gambit system was a treat, that I could grind a field with a bit of micro managing, at the same time work on my computer and watch anime. The locations were amazing, game was wide screen on ps2, programing the team that could sustain itself was fun, then take full control for boss battles. The judges were badass. Im going to have to go through it again.
spoiler[The original release, the story is a mess. The focus on Vaan and Penelo quickly drop off as Fran and Balthier become the wacky heros towards the end. Ashe and Basch were the semi drive for each pair to continue on through to the unfinished end The last boss is an anti climactic akira esc dissapointment leading to a cinema where Balthier is made to be the hero, completly ignoring anything that had happened before it] SquareEnix again could not get their shit together which is still a trend they are wallowing in today. I dont agree with most fans that hated FFXII, but I will agree that this should not have been a Numbered FF. That should be reserved for the Crystal stories. I love the art design of Ivalice and will go where it goes next. |
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FackuIkari
 Posts: 411 Location: Argentina |
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Someday I should try to play the original version of this to really see what the difference is, The Zodiac Age is my second Final Fantasy (first one was XV) and I'm loving it so far and a lot of that has to do with the gambit system, seeing everything play out as you want feels pretty good.
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Every time I speak up in defense of FFX/X2 as "the last great" (ie. turn-based) FF, the gamers--no, sorry, make that GAM3RRRZZ--always shout "Oh, man, that game was so lame and easy...FFXV has the massive new world!"
Well, know something? I'm not a GAM3RRR. I don't want a "massive new world", I want to play a game. And anyone who's ever been unfortunate enough to play Clue or Monopoly against me knows exactly what I mean by that. 
I want to figure out how to defeat the opponent chess-move by chess-move, respond to every new unplanned attack with a last-minute health and remain standing, and put the battle behind me in one go, so I can see the next chapter in the story. I don't want to wander around ENTIRE virtual cities and virtual deserts, just to be technologically amazed that my new generation of consoles can create it. I don't want to play and/or headset-trash-talk with angry multiplayer strangers online, I want to beat this thing myself, because it's late at night and there's nothing good on Netflix. I don't want to do "side quests" that will beat me up for no apparent reason except to make me a few gold pieces and health items richer and leave me exactly where I started. It's a game console, so let me play something, because I don't want to set up ten minutes of pre-programming to watch it play itself. (That said, if only we had a turn-based FF with the rabbit babe.)
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Tenebrae
Posts: 487 |
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Yeah, Vaan... back when I played XII unaware of any of the surrounding drama, it was easy to see that something was off with him. Ostensibly the MC, onec you exit the starting city and the first disc, he loses all agency and essentially becomes part of the supporting cast. The story clearly revolves around Ashe's quest and I can't recall Van being part to any critical decisions, nor even contributing much. Towards the end of the game, when some random NPC encounter remarked something regarding Vaan and his team, my first reaction was, is he seriously taking Vaan as the leader of the group? He's not even doing anything. He's just along for the ride!
While I didn't like the character, I didn't actively dislike him either, probably due to his zero presence. Overall though, I did like XII. The worst of the series, I still feel, is IX. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4426 Location: New York |
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It was still better than 13.
Then again while I have issues with plenty of the games, 13 is the only one I actively hated. And I hated EVERYTHING about 13 from Hope's stupid face to the horrible hallway. |
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EricJ2
Posts: 4016 |
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As noted, I haven't played anything double-digit since dropping FFXII halfway, and haven't seriously committed myself to a wandering free-world FF game since Yuna did her summoner's dance and had her big idol-concert. What recent games should an old-school VII-lover/XII-hater give the benefit of the doubt to and try, if he just upgraded to PS4? I gather XIII isn't one of them. 
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John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
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Yes, but all that is exactly why I think it's a good story. He's (along with Penelo) the stand-in for the player who doesn't really know much about the world, which is why he's the character the player controls at the start. But he's not the most important character, or the most famous, nor the one making the world historical decisions. It's actually a refreshing contrast to the "farm boy turns out to be the foretold hero" story (and thus one of the ways in which FF XII averts the Star Wars plot despite being similar in so many ways, down to having Balthier/Han Solo and Fran/Chewie.) Granted, I have nothing against a good Campbellian "Hero's Journey," but occasional variety is nice. It's kind of weird when it seems like half the criticism is "where's my monomyth?" |
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3ngag3
Posts: 221 |
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As far as the importance of the characters in XII goes, there's another FF game with a main lead that drops into the supporting cast once the game reaches its advanced stages.
Final Fantasy VI. And that one's widely regarded as the best of the series. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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? Terra is by far the most important character in the game, you do lose control of her for a little bit, but she's still very important. |
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John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
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Yeah, it's not the same. Terra/Tina is indeed by far the most important character. Her half-Esper nature is much more in line with a Campbellian hero. Vaan is just some dude whose humble origins serve a similar narrative purpose as Terra's oh-so-common amnesia does (see: Cloud, Luke in Tales of the Abyss, etc.) His ultimate inconsequential nature is a nice departure from the norm, even though I love the classic "Hero's Journey" and it's classic for a reason. |
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phia_one
Posts: 1657 Location: Pennsylvania |
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12 remains my favorite FF game. I loved the characters (aside from Vaan and Penelo), the world building, story, battle system, and the music and still do.
Now, I haven't made it very far in the remaster, but I love what I've seen/heard so far. I admit that I wasn't a fan of the job system at first, but it's growing on me. |
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Angel'sArcanum
 Posts: 303 Location: Toronto, Ontario |
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Woah. That's an interesting opinion. I only hear people sing praises of IX being one of the best FFs with VI that are partly overshadowed by VII, but one of the worst? Huh. Granted, I'm still kind of early in the game, though it hasn't really grabbed me yet. Picked TZA up the other day, yet to start it, but I remember liking XII a fair bit, never got to finish because my friend was always borrowing it (plus I was bad at RPGs back then) but I remember almost nothing about it, so I hope I end up digging it again. Don't get why Tidus is used as the example for the bar Vaan is contending against, perhaps because X was the last non-MMO entry with a core story? Otherwise it sounds like Tidus is the worst FF lead, to which I can't really agree with. With X, the same deal happened with its re-release where I remember liking the game enough when I was younger and wanted to revisit it, and sadly, I don't think the game holds up very well, the story feels quite bare (so far at least, kind of put it off at a certain point) where it is just travelling from one point to the next to do the next Aeon and dungeon and such, was getting to be a tedious bore with not much else to do. The Sphere Grid system was very influential on a lot of RPGs but is HORRIBLY dated now, you have to expend "levels" even just to change which direction you want to go on the grid, and even when you head towards a certain node, you may not have the required spheres to fill the thing in and all, it was such an exhausting, hollow grind, and the actual gameplay felt so basic as well. Tidus, however, I don't really have a problem with; I know my RPG junkie friend loathes him for being whiny with an incessant daddy complex, but having played it more recently than he had, I don't think he is nearly as one-note and annoying as he lets on, his angst is still warranted given his circumstances, but not really too excessive, and he actually TRIES to pick himself up, make connections and make the best of his circumstances, unlike Squall or Lightning really (the latter of which HE likes but I hate). Heck, even their respective games seemed worse than X too, VIII couldn't recapture the magic of VII and felt uninvolving, and XIII's cast in general was bad enough to kill any further interest I had seeing where the story would go coupled with the restricted party system and gameplay tied you to whoever was the party leader at the time and you just had to go along with it which made it too forced, I stopped after like the Shiva battle even lol. I won't say I love Tidus as much as I thought I would going back into X, because Dissidia's altered and embellished character personalities kind of changed my perceptions of characters until I actually got to revisit them and see what they were actually like (poor Cloud now has the reputation of a total quiet emo from Advent Children and Dissidia) so Tidus wasn't AS plucky as I thought he'd be, but still fine. Squall and Lightning were total tight-ass jerks though, the latter was stuck with several other characters who were irksome in their own ways, but she still didn't have to be as condescending, self-righteous and antagonistic as she was, my word. Last edited by Angel'sArcanum on Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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