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NEWS: Netflix Reveals Trailer for 4th Season of Castlevania Animated Show


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doubleO7



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 1069
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:40 am Reply with quote
#Synaesthesia wrote:

OMG who cares about the lore?? Laughing it's based off a video game from 30 years ago that couldn't keep it's own lore straight. These are some petty criticisms, and I'd take clever character writing and great natural dialogue over "accurate character portrayal" any day.


Surely it's not wrong for a fan to wish for an adaptation of something they love to be slightly more accurate to certain aspects of the source material. Emphasis on slightly. I'm all for adaptation adjustments and I'm not arguing that many of them were needed to fill out such a bare-bones entry as Castlevania III, but I'm still of the mind that his extreme overhauling of almost everything was excessive and unnecessary.

You call them petty, but it's the little details that give a long-running series like this it's unique flavor, and at the end of the day most of the details that I wish were different would've had no bearing on his ability to do "clever character writing and great natural dialogue" within a slightly more faithful framework. Quite frankly, the only reason I think we didn't already have it both ways was simply because Warren Ellis didn't know a lick about Castlevania. If the next guy to write for the series is both a good writer and also cares even a little bit about Castlevania, it shouldn't be a monumental task to at least tip the balance a bit more evenly.
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 941
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:18 am Reply with quote
Horsefellow wrote:
doubleO7 wrote:
I have to agree with the other guy, as a huge Castlevania fan Warren Ellis was my least favorite thing about the show. The final product was a decent vampire action series, but a poor Castlevania adaptation. He butchered the lore and characters, cut a main cast member for silly reasons, and by his own admission knew nothing about Castlevania before writing it.

I honestly think it could've been even better than it was had the show not diverged so drastically from certain aspects of the source material as it went on. I, for one, can't wait to see what another writer (ideally, an actual fan of the series) does with the franchise going forward, assuming those rumors about potential follow-up series starring different Belmonts pan out.


It's still a western adaption at the end of the day - with or without Warren Ellis isn't going to change that. When has a western adaption, especially one based on a Japanese IP, ever been faithful and accurate to the source material? Not even western franchises like The Witcher can get faithful adaptions. I don't see any reason to think future installments would be much better.

Scion Drake wrote:
From what I got Castlevania is one of those franchises that focuses more on gameplay over lore or story. So it’s essentially either incoherent or inconsistent from game to game especially the characters, because the only things that really mattered is the atmosphere and general gameplay of fighting Dracula. .


Castlevania has plenty of lore, stories, and characters in the games themselves. Not only that, but there's been manga adaptions of the games over the years that have been perfectly fine. Even disregarding all that, it's still possible to do better than what we got. The Netflix show was the equivalent of making an adaption of Dragon Ball where Goku is a pacifist who hates fighting and Vegeta hates being a Saiyan and despises his heritage. The bar is very low to not to assassinate characters to that degree.


Eh last time I checked Trevor's own characterization varies from product to product. His character here is no more valid than any other version thats already existed, its not really character assassination or anything to that degree.

Especially if we're talking characters like Isaac who were pretty awful in their original versions and how they appear on the show is leagues better.
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donhumberto



Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 807
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:24 am Reply with quote
Awesome, can't wait Very Happy
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4379
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:22 am Reply with quote
Ellis is the worst kind of hypocrite, the kind that feels the need to preach his own worldview constantly even if no one asked so he can act morally superior while hiding his own improprities. And it doesn't get much worse than allegedly coercing women into sexual relationships in exchange for job recommendations.

Now that I got that out of the way, I think the problem with Castlevania is that after Season 2 it teetered from Adaptation Expansion (taking a rather threadbare plot from an 8 bit cartridge) into Adaptation Deviation (focusing on the things that annoy Ellis and the characterizations he's comfortable writing). I think with him gone, even if it was far from the ideal way, the next series in this universe will focus less on Ellis' own hangups and more on getting a balance between the threadbare ideas and expanding them into a compelling story.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:33 am Reply with quote
I'm puzzled to hear the dialogue in Ellis's Castlevania described as 'natural'. The never-ending stream of topical politicisms, modern-teenager bickering between the main cast, and e.g. viking-vampires exaggerated to the point of dull hyperbole were exactly what I disliked most about it.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2223
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:

Eh last time I checked Trevor's own characterization varies from product to product. His character here is no more valid than any other version thats already existed, its not really character assassination or anything to that degree.

Especially if we're talking characters like Isaac who were pretty awful in their original versions and how they appear on the show is leagues better.


Pretty much; the only recurring character to have consistent characterization has been Alucard.
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Guy Gardner



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:50 pm Reply with quote
So, I'm guessing this isn't just gonna be Curse of Darkness...ah well

Good riddance....glad I'm not the only person that couldn't stand this "adaptaion"
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Scion Drake



Joined: 25 Nov 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Guy Gardner wrote:
So, I'm guessing this isn't just gonna be Curse of Darkness...ah well

Good riddance....glad I'm not the only person that couldn't stand this "adaptaion"


Well I mean, your never the only one of anything. By simple math there is at least one other person on this planet who at least shares your opinion.

Thats just common logic. There's always a minority, when something gets very big in popularity, over on the other side a smaller group of haters develop.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5951
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:58 pm Reply with quote
Horsefellow wrote:


It's still a western adaption at the end of the day - with or without Warren Ellis isn't going to change that. When has a western adaption, especially one based on a Japanese IP, ever been faithful and accurate to the source material? Not even western franchises like The Witcher can get faithful adaptions.


Which to be fair no one except the hardcore fans of the books cares about. And if you’ve familiarized yourself with the work you’re not going to want to faithful of an adaptation since it’ll just be superfluous that and some stuff wouldn’t work very well on the transition.


Scion Drake wrote:
From what I got Castlevania is one of those franchises that focuses more on gameplay over lore or story.


The earlier games yes the later games fleshed out the lore and story or In Lord Of Shadow’s case revised them.
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Sven Viking



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1039
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:06 am Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
I'm puzzled to hear the dialogue in Ellis's Castlevania described as 'natural'. The never-ending stream of topical politicisms, modern-teenager bickering between the main cast, and e.g. viking-vampires exaggerated to the point of dull hyperbole were exactly what I disliked most about it.

My memory and knowledge of the Castlevania lore is pretty vague so most of the changes didn’t bother me, but characters frequently devolving into children throwing inane and witless insults back and forth was one of the most annoying things for me. Trevor essentially grew up by the end of the first season which could have been a good enough character arc, but in many ways he’s back to normal shortly afterwards. Then other characters (including Alucard who’s intended to have some level of dignity and wit) randomly act identically regardless of whether it’s completely out of character. At least give them some clever insults or inventive curses.
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GelBanana



Joined: 01 May 2021
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:57 am Reply with quote
I'm a huge Castlevania fan and I do like the series so far. It revitalized interest in the franchise on mainstream Netflix but I feel Ellis' script is an overall weak point for me.

Characters just feel like they can't have a conversation without following it up with a quip, dropping an f-bomb, or snarking out a dirty joke.

I guess it could be entertaining for some people to have this kind of "edgy", "snappy" or "clever" dialogue but I want a more subdued script. It's not like having some is bad but having it toned down comes a long way. Seriously, having Alucard flipping the bird and making animal sex jokes just makes me cringe as a fan.

Either way, I still look forward to the final season. The animation looks amazing.
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 450
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:11 pm Reply with quote
Scion Drake wrote:
Especially if we're talking characters like Isaac who were pretty awful in their original versions and how they appear on the show is leagues better.


What exactly is wrong with Isaac? He was an interesting villain to me with his dynamic with Hector.

NeverConvex wrote:
I'm puzzled to hear the dialogue in Ellis's Castlevania described as 'natural'. The never-ending stream of topical politicisms, modern-teenager bickering between the main cast, and e.g. viking-vampires exaggerated to the point of dull hyperbole were exactly what I disliked most about it.


People like Joss Whedon and Brian Michael Bendis pretty much created the landscape for this kind of dialog to be considered the norm when writing these kinds of shows. I've never really been a fan of snarky one liners or any other kind of Buffspeak/Bendisspeak that has become the standard for geek media since the 90s, but a lot of people do and pretty much expect it. It definitely feels out of place for Castlevania, though.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2314
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Sven Viking wrote:
My memory and knowledge of the Castlevania lore is pretty vague so most of the changes didn’t bother me, but characters frequently devolving into children throwing inane and witless insults back and forth was one of the most annoying things for me. Trevor essentially grew up by the end of the first season which could have been a good enough character arc, but in many ways he’s back to normal shortly afterwards. Then other characters (including Alucard who’s intended to have some level of dignity and wit) randomly act identically regardless of whether it’s completely out of character. At least give them some clever insults or inventive curses.


Yes, that was big part of it for me, too. It often felt like the same guy talking to himself from 3 different characters, and like very little attention was paid to whether it made any sense for the character who was currently speaking to present themselves that way.

Also agree that the changes to Castlevania lore didn't bother me -- but, I was never a childhood fan of the games. I imagine if I'd been real into them as a kid, I might feel more protective of some particular version of the narrative.

El Hermano wrote:
People like Joss Whedon and Brian Michael Bendis pretty much created the landscape for this kind of dialog to be considered the norm when writing these kinds of shows. I've never really been a fan of snarky one liners or any other kind of Buffspeak/Bendisspeak that has become the standard for geek media since the 90s, but a lot of people do and pretty much expect it. It definitely feels out of place for Castlevania, though.


I hadn't thought about where it originated, but that makes a lot of sense, and I empathize. I often feel Whedon's dialogue is empty, superficial, pandering, and a bit vapid ("tell us how you really feel", right? Shocked ). Still, I think it was more at home in Buffy, Firefly, or Shield than in Castlevania, where it felt sort've violently imposed on a world where it didn't make sense -- out of place, as you said.
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