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Neko-sensei



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 250
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:59 am Reply with quote
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Given that Funimation's subtitles appear to be quoting from the 2013 translation of the text by Royall Taylor...

I'm actually rereading Tylor's translation in tandem with my viewing of the anime, and I'm afraid that this is not the case (much as I wish it were). The Funi translation appears to be original, which is how we get typos like "Numerous arrows pierced a portable shrines!" I've transcribed Taylor's renditions of the passages Biwa has sung, chanted, or recited thus far if anyone is interested:

Episode 1 opening (only the first half is used in the anime but I'll quote it in full):
The Jetavana Temple bells
ring the passing of all things.
Twinned sal trees, white in full flower,
declare the great man's certain fall.
The arrogant do not long endure:
They are like a dream one night in spring.
The bold and brave perish in the end:
They are as dust before the wind.


Episode 1's clash with the Regent's men:
The Rokuhara force lay in wait
near where Inokuma crossed Ōi-no-mikado:
three hundred helmeted riders in full armor.
They surrounded him front and rear
and with one voice raised their battle cry.
His outriders and attendants,
dressed up for today's grand occasion,
they chased and chivied in all directions,
dragged them down from their mounts,
trampled them into the dust,
and cut off every last man's hair.


Episode 2's climax to Giō's story (this one was both abridged and mildly rearranged):
"Reflection reveals worldly glory
for what it is: a dream in a dream.
Pleasure and riches are vanity."
She [Hotoke-Gozen] slipped the robe from over her head, and there she was: already a nun. "Please forgive me my past misdeeds now that I am with you in this new guise. Say that you will, and I will call the Name with you, until we are reborn together on the same lotus throne."


Episode 3's confrontation with the protesting monks:
So off they went, palanquins first,
eastward to the Taiken Gate guard post,
intending to enter from there.
Mayhem ensued. The warriors
loosed upon them a rain of arrows.
Many lodged in the palanquin
bearing Juuzenji. Shrine servants died,
monks in large numbers sustained wounds.


The adaptation slips into warp speed for episode 3, and I'm a bit suspicious of its commitment to stripping out the most explicitly Buddhist messages of the original (perhaps this is necessary for a modern, irreligious Japanese audience), but I still love the show.

PS: I also think that many of the subtitling decisions, such as referring to both Go-Shirakawa and Norihito as "emperor," are not going to help clarify the narrative for non-Japanese viewers new to this period in history. It's a pity, because the adaptation itself is doing a perfectly decent job of keeping the factions straight.


Last edited by Neko-sensei on Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 2253
Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:42 am Reply with quote
Neko-sensei wrote:

I'm actually rereading Taylor's translation in tandem with my viewing of the anime, and I'm afraid that this is not the case (much as I wish it were).


That is a shame. I'd already returned the book to the library when I watched the episode, but it was similar enough that I was hopeful. It still feels closer to Taylor's translation than either of the others I've read.

Quote:
PS: I also think that many of the subtitling decisions, such as referring to both Go-Shirakawa and Norihito as "emperor," are not going to help clarify the narrative for non-Japanese viewers new to this period in history. It's a pity, because the adaptation itself is doing a perfectly decent job of keeping the factions straight.


Agreed. That's something that I think Taylor does particularly well.
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ab2143



Joined: 09 Jan 2021
Posts: 358
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:12 pm Reply with quote
I think I’ll buy Royall Tyler’s translation of the tale of the Heike at some point

Forgot restaurant to another world s2 started today. Excited for more food porn! I’ve read all the light novels that have been released so far and so more of the anime is a good thing!
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Netero



Joined: 10 Jun 2018
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:35 pm Reply with quote
I just loved Heike Monogatari right from the opening scene of a butterfly, the mon of the Taira clan. There's nothing more to say, apart from that this is animation used as art, rather than trying to ape photography.
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ZelosZoidberg



Joined: 23 May 2018
Posts: 235
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:07 pm Reply with quote
I just want to say I really love the header image of what I think is Annika without glasses :3
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09jcg



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:58 pm Reply with quote
Neko-sensei wrote:

PS: I also think that many of the subtitling decisions, such as referring to both Go-Shirakawa and Norihito as "emperor," are not going to help clarify the narrative for non-Japanese viewers new to this period in history. It's a pity, because the adaptation itself is doing a perfectly decent job of keeping the factions straight.
I'm glad you mentioned this cause it had me VERY confused. I thought I was losing my mind but I guess it's some weird translation thing? Overall I sort of like Heike I guess but my lack of knowledge of Japanese history as well as not being familiar with the book is absolutely hindering my enjoyment of it. I'll probably push through and finish the show, cause its masterfuly crafted but it is very much my least favorite of Naoko Yamada's work.
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gedata



Joined: 04 May 2013
Posts: 573
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:34 pm Reply with quote
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Coming off of the ending for the last season of Yuki Yuna Is a Hero (as much as you can remember anyway, given that it was four years ago and not currently available streaming anywhere), you might question where this new entry would even go.

This isn't a sequel to season two you know. The start of the episode was a flashback to the last fight in season 1. This is a midquel, essentially.

spoiler[For the shinju to be dead and not have that matter to the setting or even be mentioned would be incredibly strange]


Last edited by gedata on Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2369
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:57 pm Reply with quote
ZelosZoidberg wrote:
I just want to say I really love the header image of what I think is Annika without glasses :3


Thank you! You're right, that's Annika in her magical girl from (plus witch hat).
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3ngag3



Joined: 16 Oct 2015
Posts: 180
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Is the new Baki season gonna be previewed or are you gonna wait because all the episodes were released at once?
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Neko-sensei



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 250
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:27 pm Reply with quote
09jcg wrote:
I'm glad you mentioned this cause it had me VERY confused. I thought I was losing my mind but I guess it's some weird translation thing?

The choice is technically defensible, but it really makes the story clear as mud.

Go-Shirakawa is a former emperor, who has taken Buddhist vows and become a monk in order to "retire" and pass the throne to his heir. Usually his position is translated as "Cloistered Emperor" or "Retired Emperor." His grandson Norihito is the current emperor, known as "Emperor Takakura."

In the imperial system as it operated in Go-Shirakawa's time, it is the Cloistered Emperor who is free to exercise total political power, while the reigning Emperor must spend all of his time engaged in various official rites for the good of the kingdom. Legally speaking, the Cloistered Emperor is an "advisor" to the current Emperor, but in practice he runs all the politics of Kyoto. Thus, although the reigning Emperor is technically the head of state, it's the Cloistered Emperor who's usually referred to as the "sovereign" (Tyler's translation generally uses the term "His Highness" for the Emperor and "the sovereign" for the Cloistered Emperor).

So it's not actually incorrect to call Go-Shirakawa "Emperor," since he was an emperor in the past; however, I definitely would have done something more to distinguish his position. Part of the problem is that Go-Shirakawa's name is not actually used a single time in episode 2, which is mostly about him! He's such a well-known figure in Japan that he doesn't need an expository introduction, in the same way a US Civil War story wouldn't feel a need to explain who Robert E. Lee was (but I can guarantee you a foreign audience would be completely lost—if asked who the first US president was, most of my friends in Japan will guess "Abraham Lincoln" and can't name any other president).
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GoldenPincers



Joined: 24 Oct 2015
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:51 pm Reply with quote
gedata wrote:
Quote:
Coming off of the ending for the last season of Yuki Yuna Is a Hero (as much as you can remember anyway, given that it was four years ago and not currently available streaming anywhere), you might question where this new entry would even go.

This isn't a sequel to season two you know. The start of the episode was a flashback to the last fight in season 1. This is midquel, essentially.

spoiler[For the shinju to be dead and not have that matter to the setting or even be mentioned would be incredibly strange]


I was confused by your comment at first, but now that I think about it, you're right. The second-to-last scene of the Taisha kneeling to Togo in the rain is the same scene as the one from Hero Chapter (season 2), that lead to Togo accepting the offer spoiler[to become a sacrifice to appease the Heavenly Gods.] So ep1 of "season 3" chronologically takes place before ep1 of season 2.
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Nate148



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:37 pm Reply with quote
if so this may be like last time a split season as the girls at the end are form https://yuyuyu.fandom.com/wiki/Kusunoki_Mebuki_is_a_Hero the light novel that came out at the same time as s2 just like Washio Sumi was to s1 not sure though but that is a odd way of starting
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Nate148



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:44 pm Reply with quote
spoiler[also the bit about how the 2 of them have not seen Mino despite us seeing them go to the hero memory site toward the end of s2 ]
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1841
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:59 pm Reply with quote
ANN_Lynzee wrote:
ZelosZoidberg wrote:
I just want to say I really love the header image of what I think is Annika without glasses :3
Thank you! You're right, that's Annika in her magical girl from (plus witch hat).
I thought so, Super Cute too! Also finding it ironic that YashaHime is sponsoring the feature given how people here received S1... Confused
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 842
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:22 pm Reply with quote
The return of Yashahime. Now I'm looking forward to poor Becket without offense.
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