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01N10A01N wrote:

The plain truth is that Anime is still twice as expensive in most cases to acquire than domestic series. This is better than where it was 10 years ago where 2 to 3 episodes would run you 22- 30 dollars. Or a season of Ranma 1/2 would cost you over $200.

(underscore added)

This is a point that people make quite often. And it is pretty much true, except it kinda grinds my gears that people have to go back ten years to make it. Hell, go back two years(probably the minimum amount of time to compare anything correctly in the entertainment business), and tell me we aren't leaps and bounds above the pricing schemes we had then. Anyone who has been into anime more than recently can certainly account for this. I would say that over the last four years, not including this one, anime has dropped on average about 10% a year in price. With this last year anime prices falling even more than that most likely. Anime is no longer expensive. You can find 125 minute plus anime DVD for about $18 on a regular basis, which will probably cost you less than a 100 minute special edition Hollywood movie. Pretty darn good for an import. I don't know how much more we can expect the industry to drop in price.

DuelLadyS wrote:

Craeyst Raygal wrote:

Quote:

Though I think the closest you might get to an anime musical would be the South Park movie and
Happiness of the Katakuris.

Incorrect! And the answer is...... Interstella 5555.

I like that movie... although I'll say it ran right over 'musical' and kept going until it hit 'rock opera'... I guess techno opera?

More like an extended music video than anything else, and I wouldn't qualify it as a musical.

@Gatsu, I think perhaps you were saying the same thing that Zac was saying, he was saying Nerima was a musical, the songs did move the story forward, and while they recycled the same 6 melodies, it's only because it was a long series to some up with all new music like a broadway musical, I don't think he was saying it wasn't good, or didn't qualify. I loved Nerima Daikon Brothers myself and like musicals, but I can see how difficult it would be to make much of, it was a lot of work for Nerima, I can't see too many others doing it.

That flake was one of the funniest things I have seen in awhile. Seriously...it was funny and sad... Rolling Eyes

It's not a whole series, but how about ep #19 of Martian Successor Nadesico for a musical? The songs move the story. Laughing

BTW, before the moe wave, there was the maid wave, wasn't there? It's like every series was a maid show.

v1cious wrote:

backlash? how about cause it's pandering to the lowest demeanor and doesn't benefit the industry in any way, other than to satisfy a bunch of lolicons in denial? sorry if that comes off extreme, but come on people! you know who's fueling this trend, even if you're not willing to admit it. granted i'm not gonna say every show is horrible just because of it, it's just that most are. for every Higurashi, there's about 10 Strike Witches. it's the kind of thing that makes people look down on anime in general.

How is moe hurting the industry? And are you referring to the Japanese, American, European, Asian, or Australian industries? What is this statement based on? Has anyone from the industry who actually knows something about the industry actually come out and said this? And what does "satisfying a bunch of lolicons in denial" have anything to do with anything?

It seems to me that there are a few fans out there that forget making Japanese cartoons is a BUSINESS. Last time I checked, a business exists to make money, so maybe the reason that we're seeing so much of this stuff is because otaku keep buying the shows? And if they keep buying it, the companies will then just continue to milk it for what it's worth.

I know much of the hate for moe and lolicon shows is because the series can be incredibly shallow, perverse, mind-numbingly stupid, and exploitive of little girls (something that the English-speaking world seems to get very angry about). But you know what? As long as the Japanese industry is bringing in the cash from all them otakus (Japanese and foreign) who are more than happy to give money to them for moe and lolicon shows, I don't think the industry gives a flying hoot about English-speaking anime fans feeling self-conscious about how "people look down on anime in general" because of that kind of material.

The only advice I can give to the anti-loli and anti-moe crowd is to deal with it. You can't ignore it because (unfortunately?) it's EVERYWHERE. Sad

But when stuff like this gets me down, I just try to remember that more Black Lagoon is coming soon. That usually chears me up. That, or listen to the aforementioned Daryl Surat. He's my god. Kind of. Laughing

(Note: Contrary to what one may think, I'm not really a fan of moe, and even a less of a lolicon fan. However, I hate all this whining from the "I hate it and therefore it shouldn't exist" people out there, so I felt compelled to respond.)

ilkz wrote:

I disagree, stereotypical mob... and your English suck.

I'm sorry. I just had to quote this. ^^;

CyberTRex8u wrote:

You're a rare breed, I've never known a fansub fan to buy the DVD's as well.

Words cannot express how sad this one line makes me.

Fansubs are there for when a series is a.) Not available in your native language or b.) keeping up to date with series when your region is (sometimes hideously) behind. These are only my personal beliefs however so your mileage may vary.

I recently downloaded the last 4 eps of Shuffle! so I could see the ending (which I liked) after finishing disc 5, but this doesn't mean I won't buy the DVD upon release, just that I have no patience. In before "HOW COULD YOU LIKE SHUFFLE???!!!111onehundredandeleven".

People who download fansubs and enjoy a series yet have no intention of purchasing the series (should it be/become available) should all burn in the Fiery Depths of Hell. Very Happy

As for the biggest mistake of the R1 industry, the nail was firmly hit on the head. They licensed far too much where there was little hope of it selling well (Saint Tail anyone?) and now we're left at the start of a recession. While you will always have a vocal minority raving over Generic Series #41234, this doesn't mean that a.) All of the vocal minority will buy it (See: The Fiery Depths of Hell) or b.) That anyone outside of that minority will buy it.

As for moe, nearly all of the ANN reviewers seem to hate moe with a passion but it's nice sometimes to sit back and watch something fluffy without having to worry about complicated plots or who killed who's father/mother/pet cat Tiddles. Different anime for different situations.

And as has been said numerous times before, paying $30-55 for a boxset of 26 episodes is something you should be happy about, not lamenting it because it's "barely a season". If we all went back to paying $25-30 for 4 episodes you'd could probably hear the howling in the middle of the night. That or the sounds of mass torrenting as the 'fans' take this to mean that downloading fansubs is A-OK!

Most fans are fans only until money comes into it.

PS: I do know fansubs are illegal.

Quote:

Most of his female characters are "generic kick-ass girl who can be a bitch sometimes" which fits right in with the anime medium!

I can think of 3 out of all his female characters that fit this mode, one of whom is close to generic. I've grown to expect more intelligent criticism from you, Mr. Answer.

34DD wrote:

During the days moe anime/fandom was rampant,

When did it stop? I must have missed that.

Quote:

I hated it. I thought it was poison that was killing anime. I almost went a year without watching any anime because there was just too much of it, and anime forums were just overflowing with people gushing over it. It seriously got on my nerves to the point where I almost gave up on anime entirely. After a while, I started to embrace the genre, and right now love it. While I believe most moe shows are all generic and plain, they are anime that you can just relax and watch without having to think too much. I also believe this "moe" phase of anime we are going through will eventually pass, as it kind of is.

Again if you look at the new releases last April, I can't see where that is happening like you say. Indeed if anything it is carrying on and will continue to do so until the otaku get fed up with it, and so far it seems that hasn't happened yet.

The thing that bugs me most about modern fandom is the elitism that seems to dominate it (or at least the vocal portion of it). So many people fall into a certain niche (be it a specific genre, subs or dubs, fansubs or legal) and think it's the greatest thing ever and look down on anyone who disagrees with them. The notion that person A sees person B as "less of (or not a) fan" because person B doesn't live up to some obscure criteria person A came up with to determin what a "true fan" is irritates me.

Anime is not a genre it is a medium spread across many genres. As such, it appeals to a wide variety of people. Why is it so unreasonable for people to recognize others as being just as big of fans as they are, while having absolutely no common interest when it comes to what shows they like? I know it sounds cheeky, but can't we all just get along?

As a close second, I would say it's a good portion of fandom's sense of entitlement to free anime.

TJ_Kat wrote:

The thing that bugs me most about modern fandom is the elitism that seems to dominate it (or at least the vocal portion of it). So many people fall into a certain niche (be it a specific genre, subs or dubs, fansubs or legal) and think it's the greatest thing ever and look down on anyone who disagrees with them. The notion that person A sees person B as "less of (or not a) fan" because person B doesn't live up to some obscure criteria person A came up with to determin what a "true fan" is irritates me.

There's nothing obscure about someone who has decided to dedicate their life to an art form as a career in the hope of:
A) making a living and pay the bills, and
B) create that art form for the pleasure of all who love it, and desire to pay them for it in return to show our appreciation, with hope they will create some more after they have paid their bills.

Quote:

Anime is not a genre it is a medium spread across many genres. As such, it appeals to a wide variety of people. Why is it so unreasonable for people to recognize others as being just as big of fans as they are, while having absolutely no common interest when it comes to what shows they like? I know it sounds cheeky, but can't we all just get along?

As a close second, I would say it's a good portion of fandom's sense of entitlement to free anime.

My conscience will not allow me to "get along" with those persons who only think of themselves with that.

I am so, so glad the question of musical animes came up. I had contemplated starting a topic about this in the anime forum... I love various musicals (Fiddler on the Roof, the aforementioned Sweeney Todd, and many others) and thought that the musical genre would be a fantastic fit for the anime realm. Sadly it seems as though it is long-neglected although there are a few titles mentioned that I might check out.

CyberTRex8u wrote:

your a rare breed, I've never known a fan-sub fan to buy the DVD's as well.

Put me in this category also. I try to replace all of the fansub series that I have watched (unless I just saw the first episode or two) with R1 dvds. Same with the bootleg/pirated copies I ended up with early in my anime fandom. (Oh you evil, evil ebay sellers...)

I am not caught up yet (college student + part time job = $$ strapped), but lets say I get two box sets in a month... I try to keep one of them something new, and one of them a replacement of a fansub/pirate. I am actually rather saddened to learn that I am in a small minority... though I guess I shouldn't be surprised since, as someone who works in a music store, I know people sure as heck aren't replacing their downloaded albums with real copies...

Jack of All Games wrote:

Quote:

I've missed out on several series because I didn't have the $45-$55 to buy the boxed set for 26 episodes (Barely a season).

I'm not sure how I feel about this statement. On the one hand, I've only paid more than $30 for 2 of the last 20 box sets I've bought (Rightstuf is da bomb). On the other hand, I can remember, 8 years ago, finding a Trigun box set and thinking it was a steal for $100.

I guess the bottom line is that if you want something when it's new, you're going to have to fork over the dough. While you may "miss" a lot of shows, you can save a ton of money by waiting a while until they go on sale.

On a separate note, since when is 26 eps barely a season?

[Yes, I wrote that letter...]

I'm not talking about getting the sets new. I'm talking about a year or two down the road, when other series (Mostly American, I have to say) have dropped in price, the anime series is still the same price it was coming out the door in the first place. Unless someone has a sale, you are still paying $45 for the boxed set of, say, Fullemtal Alchemist, while a season of Law and Order is down to $25 in the same store.

RightStuf is indeed a great place to shop, I just wish I had money to shop there. Part of missing a lot of series is because I can't buy them before they go out of print. I mean, they will sell discs of some things forever (Bebop will always be available. Just need to go get that one.) but some of the series I've been told about six months ago are hard to find.

As to the complaints that I should be thankful for $50 a season, I am. I started back when I got 2-3 episodes on a $20 VHS tape. I am happier that things are cheaper, but my complaints are more towards comparative prices to things out right now in the same store.

doctordoom85 wrote:

01N10A01N wrote:

One of the things the Anime distributors forgot was that when a show airs on TV, and is well watched, then the masses would expect to pay about the same amount of money per season as anything else on TV.

But that's simply ignorant of them, and here's why:

[snipped]

So as far as I can see it, the industry (or, brace yourselves, we fans could do it) simply needs to explain to the masses why anime pricing is where it is, and how it's actually cheaper than ever, unlike certain other entertainment (*cough* video games *cough*).

That doesn't really change the reality of it though. By and large people are pretty ignorant and their buying habits will reflect that. You can't even entirely blame it on that either. It's perfectly reasonable for people to not care if it actually is fairly priced. In the end it still comes down to a cost vs benefit decision and at the current price many don't see it as worth it.

CyberTRex8u wrote:

your a rare breed, I've never known a fan-sub fan to buy the DVD's as well.

I don't mean to get on your case here especially since a couple people have already pointed this out but this is a grossly inaccurate statement. There are plenty of fans who both buy and download anime. (Myself included). The unfortunate truth seems to be that more and more people are beginning to fall into the category of refusing to buy anything and that's definitely an issue the industry must face. However, there are plenty of people who either wish to support the industry, see the value in owning DVDs or dubs, etc. but also find it useful to watch fansubs first.

Quote:

Many anime that I would like to see are only available via fansubbs (Which I will not support.) or untranslated versions uploaded to YouTube or other video sharing sites.

Perhaps it's just a poor choice of wording but this seems to imply that he has no problem with the latter (except that they are of course untranslated.) What difference is there between the two that would change one's stance from one to the other though?

ikillchicken wrote:

Quote:

Many anime that I would like to see are only available via fansubbs (Which I will not support.) or untranslated versions uploaded to YouTube or other video sharing sites.

Perhaps it's just a poor choice of wording but this seems to imply that he has no problem with the latter (except that they are of course untranslated.) What difference is there between the two that would change one's stance from one to the other though?

I was making note of how videos get out to the masses. I don't support theft of any form. The formatting of that sentence was not the best, I will admit.

igriega wrote:

v1cious wrote:

backlash? how about cause it's pandering to the lowest demeanor ...10000wrods...

How is moe hurting the industry? And are you referring to the Japanese, American, European, Asian, or Australian industries? What is this ...10000words...

ilkz wrote:

I disagree, stereotypical mob... and your English suck.

I'm sorry. I just had to quote this. ^^;

Not sure what your thinking when quote this, but I want to make clear that I am not anti moe or something like that, and make sure you know that's my answer to the flake-the youtube freak. >___<#

I don't think moe is a necessarily bad thing for the industry. Actually, I really love it, so maybe I can't be unbiased. I think the R1 companies understand that moe's not as popular here as it is in Japan, so I think they'll keep slipping in a title every once and a while, but stick to the more mainstream action anime. As much as I love it, I know that CLANNAD (if it gets licensed someday) probably isn't going to do as well as, say Code Geass.

This week's Answerfans question is fairly easy. It would probably have something and EVERYTHING to do with the masses of teenagers sitting and pretty much sprawling themselves out in front of the manga shelves at Borders. Seriously, if you're going to do that, at LEAST get out of the way so that maybe people that might buy something can see. Is it too much to ask that you at least pick up after yourselves too?? I am NOT your maid Anime cry

9 does not come before 3 last time I checked. And Mamotte Shugogetten probably doesn't belong by Zombie Loan.
Anime hyper

I'm venting. I don't think any of you do that (I hope o_o)

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