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Chicks on Anime [2008-09-09]


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Scalfin



Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 249
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:10 pm Reply with quote
You know, I find it very creepy that some people think that underage girls have any sexuality in any state of dress, even minimal. I would therefor propose that the women on the panel are, in fact, perverts. For a counterexample, look at the little girl in the silent movie Chang. She didn't have a shirt on, but nobody saw any problem with bringing little kids to see it.
I bet each of them has at least one picture of a puppy with no clothes of.

For the protection aspect of moe, remember that it's hard to sympathize with an action girl,as she can, and usually does, fight back, turning the kick the dog moment into the "holy shit, he took down a wolfhound" moment. On the other hand, the only time punting a puppy isn't heart wrenching is when it's hilarious.
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ANN_Bamboo
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Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3904
Location: CO
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:25 pm Reply with quote
Rednal wrote:
@Sakechan: It's opposite in the sense that one starts rough and becomes nice, and the other starts nice and becomes insane. It's the "niceness" bit, really; Yandere characters are significantly more violent than tsundere in the tsun-tsun phase.

And yes, it is in the sense of the character whose name you blocked. It's the same example I used. Yandere are mentally unstable characters, often with a violent obsession over their love interest. This is different from simply fawning over him like in many harem series, mind you. Such characters are often willing to kill to keep others away from their object of obsession, and don't take rejection well.


So is there a term for the cute-little-girl-with-a-gun archetype? The not crazy, but trained as an assassin type?
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Nayoko-Kihara



Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:05 pm Reply with quote
SakechanBD wrote:
Nayoko-Kihara wrote:

When you all started talking about buying body pillows of your favorite characters from an anime, or a manga, it all seemed like you'd take it to automatically be something sexual, or some sort of desire to sleep with and/or be with that certain character. I understand that might be what happens a majority of the time, but nobody even mentioned another possibility and it made it seem as if these are the ONLY reasons you would ever buy a body pillow, and actually use it.

Can't I just get the pillow because it has my favorite character on it? Or because it's large, and comfortable? The character could just be an after thought. - The same with figures and doujinshi when they were mentioned. Can't I just get a figure of my favorite character, BECAUSE it's my favorite character? It's a neat trinket to have, and to show off. But the only side mentioned was one of a sexual nature, coming off as: "If you have body pillows and figures, you must be some sort of closet pervert."


I guess with this, I just don't personally understand what it's like to be in the position of the customer. Maybe you could shed some light on the matter. What does one do with a body pillow with a character's image on it? If you just wanted something to hug, why not a plain pillow? Why not a stuffed animal?

Part of my confusion is that I, personally, have never been a very touchy-feely person. Outside from some celebratory hugs on sports teams when I was in high school, or tearful college departures, I've never been one to hug people outside of significant others or my gay best friend. So to me, it's hard to imagine wanting to curl up in bed next to anyone for comfort, I guess.

It's not just moe characters, either. When I see Hannah Montana pillows at Target, I'm completely confused as to their purpose. Why would you want to wake up and have Miley Cyrus' face staring at you? Obviously the little girls who buy those pillows don't have a problem with it, but I just don't get it.

So maybe it's one of those, "It's not you, it's me," things. I have a billion stuffed animals, but zero dolls. Human figures have never really provided comfort to me, so maybe that's why I don't get it.


If I buy a pillow, or almost any piece of merchandise for that matter, with a character or a person I like on it, it's mostly going to be just so I can have it. Because I like that character, or that person. I'm not looking for comfort, I'm not looking for someone to lay with or do anything with. It's simply a fan thing for me. I get it, because I like it, and because I want it. If I could get a body pillow with Sailor Mercury on it? I'd be all over that, and I would use it both as a pillow and as a decoration on my bed. - This doesn't mean it might not provide comfort later, if I'm upset and need to take my feelings out somewhere, I might use it. But nothing sexual would ever come out of something like that for me; and that's mostly what I was upset about in the discussion. The way it was presented with no other option mentioned, as if owning a body pillow automatically means you must have some sexual desire for that character.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Moe has been highjacked by the lolicoms and used as a sheep's skin to hide their pervy fetishes under. The BBC did a program called Japanaroma last year, that touched on moe, but when the presenter and his Japanese co-presenter explained what moe was, the co-presenter pulled out a "lap" pillow, (one shaped like a girl's lap in the sitting position) where he then proceded to put his head on it right in the groin, and then a cap gen flashed up with MOE across the screen. I just gritted my teeth and said "Oh Bloody'ell! No it's NOT!!". I even sent an e-mail to the presenter to give him a ticking off, but I got no reply. He's a bit a tw@ anyway so I'm not surprised. Rolling Eyes
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Rednal



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 133
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:07 pm Reply with quote
@Sakechan: Not that I know of. It may well exist, but girls with guns is most often referred to as just that; it tends to describe the story-type as a whole rather than a specific character. Such stories are generally a blend of Shounen and Shoujo, but I don't know that they're really a sub-genre yet. There aren't very many that I know of; Battle Angel Alita is somewhere around there, and Gunslinger Girl is just what it sounds like... but there really aren't very many of them, and when there are, it's often just a humor point, with their attacks funny in the way smacking someone with a paper fan is.


@Scalfin: Well, that really depends on your definition of "Underaged". I personally find nothing at all wrong with a sixteen-year-old (underaged where I live) liking another sixteen-year-old. Despite their underage status. Considering how marriages are, actually, I give leeway of about ten years either way between the people in a relationship. A number of anime and manga fans are in their late teens, and while I don't condone any form of sexual activity with an eight-year-old in real life, I think there's no real problem with at least liking them, and being, say, a protective big-brother figure until they grow up some more. I mean, if you REALLY like them, then you should be okay with waiting for them to grow up. ^^
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1796
Location: Leiden, NL, EU
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Rednal - Aren't Bee Train's Noir, Madlax and El Cazador De La Bruja all in the girls-with-guns genre? They're pretty well-known I'd say. They're also quite serious.
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tankerboy



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 81
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Is Mikuru moe? I mean, in the reality of the story, she's not really helpless even though Haruhi thinks she is.

And though I haven't looked at in quite some time, I would think that Orihime from Bleach might fall into the same category.
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elreicht



Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Manila, Philippines
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Can't anyone just feel Moe for any character? Even if she's a living final weapon that can level entire cities if asked to(Saikano)? Confused
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1796
Location: Leiden, NL, EU
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:28 pm Reply with quote
If Mikuru is moe, it's more likely because Haruhi dressed her up like that I think Anime smile
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hentai4me



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1313
Location: England. Robin is so Cute!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:53 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Moe has been highjacked by the lolicoms and used as a sheep's skin to hide their pervy fetishes under. The BBC did a program called Japanaroma last year, that touched on moe, but when the presenter and his Japanese co-presenter explained what moe was, the co-presenter pulled out a "lap" pillow, (one shaped like a girl's lap in the sitting position) where he then proceded to put his head on it right in the groin, and then a cap gen flashed up with MOE across the screen. I just gritted my teeth and said "Oh Bloody'ell! No it's NOT!!". I even sent an e-mail to the presenter to give him a ticking off, but I got no reply. He's a bit a tw@ anyway so I'm not surprised. Rolling Eyes


Yes, I saw that. Johnathon Ross.

Elreicht: That is one point I tried to make but people seemed to ignore, I made my example with Kurau.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:42 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
(By the way, yeah, that quote sounds confusing out of context. What I mean is that a romantic relationship is ultimately based on some manner of sexual attraction. That's what sets it apart from a friendship.)


Hmm, I think this is the point that we differ on. As I wholly believe that two people can have an intimate and romantic relationship with no sex. But I suppose that just comes down to a different point of view on certain values.


I didn't say they couldn't but whether actual intercourse is taking place or not, doesn't a romantic relationship have to be based on some manner of sexual interest or attraction? Isn't that what makes it romantic and sets it apart from close friendship? (I'm not sure what if any bearing this has on the topic at this point but I just wanted to clarify what I mean).
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elreicht



Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Manila, Philippines
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:12 pm Reply with quote
I totally identify with hentai4me's point. I mean why are we all here at all? We are, first and foremost, anime lovers. All of us have felt at some point that if we could just get inside the TV to give emotional or moral support to an anime character we would. Not because they're weak and helpless or because they're cute and innocent, but because we like them and in some cases love them as if they have already become a part of our lives. I believe that most of us have felt this "protective feeling" for characters that can very well protect themselves. I am aware that the term "moe" is being used as a marketing ploy by businessmen, but as Anime fans, should we limit "moe" to just an advertising trick? Everybody, even anime superheroes have their moments of weakness, and when that moment comes some fans feel the need to comfort and protect that character even if that particular has the power to turn a whole city into ashes. It doesn't even matter if the character is a butt-ugly middle-aged burly man, as long as you like him enogh to care about him.. Confused
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4471
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:55 pm Reply with quote
So I take it that Bamboo's overall opinion on Azumanga Daioh has ameliorated significantly in the five years since she wrote this:

Bamboo Dong, in 2003, wrote:
To me, to me, the popularity of Azumanga Daioh is the mass movement of thousands of lonely men signaling vainly to each other to give validity to them watching a show about pink-donning prepubescent girls. people say that it brings them nostalgia from their past days of high school life, or the happiness of hanging out with their friends after school, and I can understand that. But beyond that point of ol'-time-feelin', I can't see the selling point at all with the "humour" that prevails the series. Make no mistake— this isn't because I don't understand the jokes. I do. I just don't find them funny. Or rather, I found them funny the first time through, but beyond that, got bored the 4th time around. Perhaps I'll be missing out when this series is eagerly gobbled up at Best Buy by thousands of fans, but if I've lived this long without being consumed by the 1337n3ss of 0s4k4, I think I can live just a bit further without falling into the pit of AzuDai fandom. Am I missing out? Maybe. But we all have different tastes, and mine surely don't rest in little girls with mobile hair and b00bi3-size jokes.
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rti9



Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1241
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:45 am Reply with quote
Wow Tenchi. What a dig. Shocked From not funny to hilarious.

Also an unfortunate prediction:

Bamboo Dong, in 2003 wrote:
I'd honestly be surprised if it picks up a new wave of anime fans. Shows focused on humour like Kodocha may do that, but not something so culturally focused like AzuDai.

Predicting success is already something extremely complicated, it becomes even trickier when the cultural barrier is involved. Azumanga today is the 19th most popular anime on ANN's ratings stats while Kodocha stands as 428.
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3904
Location: CO
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:06 pm Reply with quote
Smile My tastes have changed a lot over the years.

I used to looooooooooooooove Love Hina. So much so that the first print of the Love Hina vol. 1 DVDs had a quote from one of my reviews saying it was the funniest anime ever, or something.

I can't stand that show anymore.

Hell, sometimes my tastes will change mid-series. When I first watched the first couple of episodes of Rumbling Hearts (on fansub, sadly), I loathed it. But I really loved it when I watched it the second time around during the R1 release.
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