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who else thinks that the American naruto sukes(voice acting)

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Different levels? Maybe. But still parallel as I've already illustrated.

Degree is very important. A first degree burn (sunburn) is irritating, a third degree burn can kill you.

Jerseymilk wrote:

Ohoni, I was just curious to know if you were fluent in Japanese and if you've been to Japan a lot and travelled around there?

Don't actually expect Ohoni to answer this question; the answer would reveal the fact that he's talking completely out of his ass and the sole strength behind his argument is repeating himself over and over again with an aire of superiority.

Ohoni, I was just curious to know if you were fluent in Japanese and if you've been to Japan a lot and travelled around there?

A topic that everyone was able to get into, including me, where we all have our own point of view, which will end in blood. If you ask me Papermaster57 is a genius, just like George Bush.

I never understood, and always thought people where just being mean to ____, but now I understand why.

Anyways. What the hell was this topic about again?

This is about language, not about sunburns, or math, or actresses.

Ohoni, I was just curious to know if you were fluent in Japanese and if you've been to Japan a lot and travelled around there?

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The profits from past Naruto sales go to the copyright holders, not the company dubbing the anime. Those copyright holders have NO INTEREST in making the anime sucessful over here, just in making a profit off selling the rights.

That's ridiculous. The more popular the anime is over here, the more money they stand to make off the manga, toys, and games. It's the best advertising money can buy.

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So, while the people making a new Batman series can get a little help from DC Comics (as DC will be making a profit off the series as well) the company dubbing Naruto does not get the same backing.

A little note, American comics are BARELY profitable. I'm sure DC comics doesn't put a dime into JLU or Teen Titans, and in fact I'm fairly sure they make a direct profit off those shows in liscensing fees. MArvel makes MOST of it's money off of the movies it makes, rather than off the comics they sell, and I've hear that DC comics is actually a non-profit division (not by choice), that worlds more or less as a "farm team" for potential movies and tv series.

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I know of several people that go: "Stupid anime. *changes channel* Oh, infomercial, yay!" And I'm serious. They'd rather watch an infomercial than anime because, to them, all anime is retarded, dumb, and pointless. (And before you blames this on the dubs, two of them haven't seen ANY dubs, only subtitled shows.)

Yet they watch JLU and Titans. And they haven't watched ANY dubs, not even the anime that bookend those shows? Strange. Teen Titans is practically anime itself.

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And there is a big difference between licensing to make JLU and licensing Naruto. Licensing JLU was just a matter of getting the rights to use the copyrighted characters in the show. Licensing Naruto is a matter of essentially purchasing a finished product. There is a big difference.

Yes, which is why I'm not comparing those costs. I've made it quite clear that I'm comparing the [costs to liscense a finished anime show] vs. the [costs of liscensing the characters for the American show, plus the costs of producing that show, minus the costs of the VAs].

Those two costs should be roughly equal,at least on potentially mass-market programs (niche direct-to-video programs would tend to follow a different scale, certainly).

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They don't outright say 'we won't give you the rights' (because the Japanese are a polite society and often indirect) but they will raise the prices to levels that no one would pay. This is what Toei did with Sailor Moon, I believe.

And yet they sold the rights to One Piece, a much bigger property, just fine. I'm sure they had their reasons for not liscensing Sailor Moon, or for believing they could get that high price for it, but it clearly doesn't apply to their entire business policy.

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And FUNI was unable to get the first opening for Kodocha (and part of the Japanese audio track) because the company that had the rights for the song and the musicians voice simply woudn't deal with them.

That's a seperate matter, a conflict with a Japanese music company, which really didn't stand to gain much on the deal, not with the animation company itself.

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This is about language, not about sunburns, or math, or actresses.

Yeah, but when I try to explain it directly you just keep missing the point, so I'm trying to find a metaphor of some kind that might explain it more clearly to you guys.

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This is about language, not about sunburns, or math, or actresses.

Yeah, but when I try to explain it directly you just keep missing the point, so I'm trying to find a metaphor of some kind that might explain it more clearly to you guys.

If the anime is popular, their toys will sell better. But they rarely, if ever, help with costs of the anime aside from buying the rights if the anime distributor has the rights to the toys as well.

American comics sell for about $5 for 32 pages. Graphic Novels tend to cost $15 minimum.

And the last time I checked, Marvel didn't make movies, other studios did. There name is included because they own the rights to the stuff being used in the movies.

Yeah, they watch JLU and Teen Titans. But not anime, and that was the entire point. Teen Titans may emulate some aspects of anime, but that's about it. The original comic doesn't look like anime at all. Very few people are going to actually mistake it for anime.

Actually, you didn't make that clear at all.

And why are you subtracting the costs of the VAs from the American show? Do you think they don't have to pay them? Of course its going to be cheaper if you take out the VA's salaries. That's like half the cost of the show right there.

You see, that's the key. Anime, even Naruto and DBZ, are niche markets.

And you have conviently ignored the main reason your little boycott wouldn't work.

I'm really not folowing the double-standard here. People keep saying "but this is why an anime is different than an original US show and why it has to have substandard VAs", and when I point out why they're exactly the same in that regard you just hop off to something else.

American comics sell for $3 for 22 pages. They still don't turn a significant profit. The production costs are VERY high, the printing costs are considerable, and distribution is a mess, so that by the end of it most comics sold by DC or Marvel are done at just about break even. Only the huge sellers actually turn a profit. What they DO, however, is promote their other projects and create IP for use in tv, games, and movies.

The profit margins on manga are much higher, because manga are done in black and white (lower printing costs, cheaper paper, no colorist to pay), and mangaka work for cheap.

Silly rabbit, Marvel gets BIG money when a "Marvel" movie comes out. Most of Marvel's profits over the past few years have come directly out of X-Men, Spider-Man, and Fantastic Four movies, that's what dragged them out of bankrupsy.

Perhaps not to you. I spelled it out at least three times before that last one that I was including all costs in producing the show. Whether you read it or not is not my problem.

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And why are you subtracting the costs of the VAs from the American show? Do you think they don't have to pay them? Of course its going to be cheaper if you take out the VA's salaries. That's like half the cost of the show right there.

Balance.

1. My arguement is that anime should be able to hire VAs of equal quality as American shows.

2. the counter arguement to that, supposedly, is that anime companies are poor, and therefore cannot afford the same VAs.

3. My counterpoint to that is that:
A: The two shows, both situated similarly on television and with similar demos and merch, stand to make nearly identical amounts of money.

and

B: That, if the cost of both the American and Japanese VAs are removed, both series should have nearly identical production costs. Because of that, the cost ot liscense the content of the Japanese show should be roughly equal to the cost to liscense and create the American show.

4. Therefore, all things being roughly equal, both types of show should have nearly identical budgets with which to go forth and hire the very best talent for their respective shows. Hence my confusion as to why most original US animation tends to have hire quality voice talent, and why I've hear that it does, in fact, pay much better than anime dubbing.

No you say. I don't buy it. Is it niche as in not everybody likes it? Certainly, but is it MORE niche than any other programing aimed at the same demographics in nearly identical timeslots and channels? I don't see how you could make that arguement. I'm not comparing it to live action shows, I'm not comparing it to Family Guy or South Park, I'm not comparing it to any of that stuff, I'm comparing it to other shows that could also be considered "kids shows", that are marketed identically, and that air in the same block of Toonami shows.

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If the anime is popular, their toys will sell better. But they rarely, if ever, help with costs of the anime aside from buying the rights if the anime distributor has the rights to the toys as well.

I'm really not folowing the double-standard here. People keep saying "but this is why an anime is different than an original US show and why it has to have substandard VAs", and when I point out why they're exactly the same in that regard you just hop off to something else.

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American comics sell for about $5 for 32 pages. Graphic Novels tend to cost $15 minimum.

American comics sell for $3 for 22 pages. They still don't turn a significant profit. The production costs are VERY high, the printing costs are considerable, and distribution is a mess, so that by the end of it most comics sold by DC or Marvel are done at just about break even. Only the huge sellers actually turn a profit. What they DO, however, is promote their other projects and create IP for use in tv, games, and movies.

The profit margins on manga are much higher, because manga are done in black and white (lower printing costs, cheaper paper, no colorist to pay), and mangaka work for cheap.

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And the last time I checked, Marvel didn't make movies, other studios did. There name is included because they own the rights to the stuff being used in the movies.

Silly rabbit, Marvel gets BIG money when a "Marvel" movie comes out. Most of Marvel's profits over the past few years have come directly out of X-Men, Spider-Man, and Fantastic Four movies, that's what dragged them out of bankrupsy.

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Yeah, they watch JLU and Teen Titans. But not anime, and that was the entire point. Teen Titans may emulate some aspects of anime, but that's about it. The original comic doesn't look like anime at all. Very few people are going to actually mistake it for anime.

It's easier to mistake Teen Titans for anime than to mistake it for the comic. Most people that watch the show are unaware that there IS a comic of it, and the comic has a completely different cast. They only recently even cameoed Kid Flash on the cartoon in two episodes, and have yet to have Superboy or Wonder Girl in any episodes.

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Actually, you didn't make that clear at all.

Perhaps not to you. I spelled it out at least three times before that last one that I was including all costs in producing the show. Whether you read it or not is not my problem.

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And why are you subtracting the costs of the VAs from the American show? Do you think they don't have to pay them? Of course its going to be cheaper if you take out the VA's salaries. That's like half the cost of the show right there.

Balance.

1. My arguement is that anime should be able to hire VAs of equal quality as American shows.

2. the counter arguement to that, supposedly, is that anime companies are poor, and therefore cannot afford the same VAs.

3. My counterpoint to that is that:
A: The two shows, both situated similarly on television and with similar demos and merch, stand to make nearly identical amounts of money.

and

B: That, if the cost of both the American and Japanese VAs are removed, both series should have nearly identical production costs. Because of that, the cost ot liscense the content of the Japanese show should be roughly equal to the cost to liscense and create the American show.

4. Therefore, all things being roughly equal, both types of show should have nearly identical budgets with which to go forth and hire the very best talent for their respective shows. Hence my confusion as to why most original US animation tends to have hire quality voice talent, and why I've hear that it does, in fact, pay much better than anime dubbing.

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And you have conviently ignored the main reason your little boycott wouldn't work.

Because the US companies would break? Maybe they would. But it's at least worth a shot. Something needs to be done if they're really that desperate.