Forum - View topic
ANNCast - Moe Money, Moe Problems


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:32 pm Reply with quote
@ Shichimi - re: Moonphase's loli-ishousness - if you go by, say, the Wikipedia definition of lolicon:

Quote:
Outside Japan, the term is less common and most often refers to a genre of manga and anime wherein childlike female characters are depicted in an erotic manner.


...then Moonphase isn't particularly loliconish - although there is the memorable scene where Hazuki does one of those classic anime pratfalls where she ends up sitting on Kohei's face. Mostly Hazuki is played for kawaii as opposed to boners. The trouble with some anime is that the line between playing for kawaii and playing for boners can be distressingly thin. Personally, I lump Moonphase into lolicon because the relationship between 12 (?)-year-old Hazuki and adult Kohei has many of the hallmarks of a romantic relationship as opposed to strictly a bratty younger sister / long-suffering older brother one. And when you put Moonphase together with Dance in the Vampire Bund, you can't help get the impression that Shinobi might be a lolicon himself.

By the way, since the podcast was about moe, it wouldn't hurt to remind everybody of the ANN Lexicon's definition of it:

Quote:
Moe is a Japanese term used in connection with manga or anime to describe something precious, usually (but not always) the ideal of youthful and innocent femininity. Written with the kanji for "to bud or sprout" (萌), the concept covers a range of ideal behaviour for youthful female characters in manga or anime. To be moe, a character can be eager or perky, not overly independent, and call forth a desire in the viewer to protect them and nurture them. The term is also used to describe any preciously cute item; there is an animal mascot character store in Tokyo called Moe.

There is a lot of debate over the crossover between moe fandom and lolicon. While the crossover exists among fans and products the two genres are not synonymous
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
PBsallad



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 338
Location: Phoenix
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:10 pm Reply with quote
BeanBandit wrote:
EDIT: MP3 showing up now but still not showing up in iTunes or the RSS feed.


Yeah. Not really a problem, but its a bit irksome.

I'm glad this episode came out early though. I plan on taking a 2 to 3 mile walk soon. I can listen to this on my trip. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
neocloud9



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 1178
Location: Atlanta, GA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Personally, I lump Moonphase into lolicon because the relationship between 12 (?)-year-old Hazuki and adult Kohei has many of the hallmarks of a romantic relationship as opposed to strictly a bratty younger sister / long-suffering older brother one.


She was 14, he was 27. Thankfully, the romance was pretty chaste (only a kiss on the forehead as far as I remember) but I still remember feeling kinda skeeved out at the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ranma824



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:16 pm Reply with quote
Shichimi wrote:
To clarify: when I think of something as moe, it means I think it's adorable. Strawberry Marshmallow, as well as being gently funny and well-observed, is moe to me. The girls in GG are just pathetic, broken down husks. I don't find emotionally damaged, brainwashed girl assassins cute, ergo they're not moe by my personal understanding of the term.


What's moe to you is not moe to other people.

Personally, I too will never understand the sickly/broken girl moe. The ultimate example of this would be NGE.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:26 pm Reply with quote
neocloud9 wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Personally, I lump Moonphase into lolicon because the relationship between 12 (?)-year-old Hazuki and adult Kohei has many of the hallmarks of a romantic relationship as opposed to strictly a bratty younger sister / long-suffering older brother one.


She was 14, he was 27. Thankfully, the romance was pretty chaste (only a kiss on the forehead as far as I remember) but I still remember feeling kinda skeeved out at the time.


Ah, thanks for the clarification. Although, I have to say that the combo of Monica Rial doing her "bratty little girl" voice, Hazuki's character design and her actions, she skewed younger than 14 to me.

Also, I hope I'm not scaring off any anti-lolicon types from Moonphase. I found it a cute, funny and endearing series (although some of its tougher parts make it unsuitable for kids under 12.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1101
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:44 pm Reply with quote
WILDARMSHEERO I LOVE YOU, WILL YOU MARRY ME?

~FROM AN ANONYMOUS FAN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dewlwieldthedarpachief



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:44 pm Reply with quote
I can't seem to download the podcast and it doesn't even show up in the RSS feed. Help?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shichimi



Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Ranma824 wrote:
What's moe to you is not moe to other people.

Personally, I too will never understand the sickly/broken girl moe. The ultimate example of this would be NGE.


Pretty sure I tried to make it clear I was talking about my own interpretation. Going by the ANN lexicon definition (cheers, Blood-), seems my take on moe aligns with the 'preciously cute' bit.

And the whole 'sickly-girl' thing just seems to suggest a position of power for the other person; this little kid is totally dependent on others, I have her life in my hands, etc. Urk. Although I'd like to hear others' take on that.


Last edited by Shichimi on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1676
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:00 pm Reply with quote
dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:
I can't seem to download the podcast and it doesn't even show up in the RSS feed. Help?


The hosting service we use for audio and video had a DNS burp. It's fixed now, but might take a few hours to clear everyone's ISP, so give it a few hours and try again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
neocloud9



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 1178
Location: Atlanta, GA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Shichimi wrote:
And the whole 'sickly-girl' thing just seems to suggest a position of power for the other person; this little kid is totally dependent on others, I have her life in my hands, etc. Urk. Although I'd like to hear others' take on that.


I don't think it's anything quite so sinister. It reminds me more of "hurt/comfort" fanfiction, based on the premise of nurturing closeness between two characters by emphasizing one character's unconditional willingness to nurse the other back to heath. And it goes the other way, too. I mean, how many guys have sexy nurse fantasies...?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Alright, the episode is working now!

While the topic is fresh in my mind, RE: the personal definition of moe, in my mind moe can be summed up as feelings of affection for a fictional character that normally are felt towards real people. This can run the gamut from endearment and fondness to outright sexual interest. This probably isn't the textbook meaning of the word, but its the only definition that I feel actually reflects the reality of the situation.

When it comes to moe shows, I divide them into two types- shows that illicit moe feelings naturally and those that are designed to be moe. It's the latter I have a problem with.

Also this has nothing to do with the topic really, but Greg totally sounds like Michael Cera.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 1336
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Then Zac comes and says basically Moe degrades anime and admits he hasn't even watched really any...great.

And whats her name girl really needs to go and research a bit before generalizing things. Thank god Greg clears stuff up....It is like some loud obnoxious girl...talking.....obnoxious girl. God they are based on games, get it.

Clannad does use very unique aspects that has not been done before. It is really hard to compare visual novel stories to the anime realm. The way novels are played are different than how an anime is played out.

If I knew how to use twitter or cared to I would love to be a speaker >.>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7847
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:54 pm Reply with quote
grooven wrote:
Then Zac comes and says basically Moe degrades anime and admits he hasn't even watched really any...great.


I've seen plenty of it. I said I hadn't seen much I liked.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Example of a good moe show: Figure 17. I've written about it before, but I think the difference between it and stuff like Kannan and Air is that the stereotypical moe elements of the protagonist (mainly shyness and timidity) seem as though they were written into the show for actual story purposes, as opposed to otaku appeal. With no obligation to maintain their presence, the writers are free to portray their impact on the character realistically and have her move past them.

grooven wrote:
Then Zac comes and says basically Moe degrades anime and admits he hasn't even watched really any...great.


I don't think you really need to watch dedicated moe shows to be able to see how it's affected Japan's creative output. It's the proliferation of moe elements into so many shows, even if it doesn't really belong, that's the problem. That should be obvious to anyone who's been watching anime at all for the last five years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 1336
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:00 pm Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:
I don't think you really need to watch dedicated moe shows to be able to see how it's affected Japan's creative output. It's the proliferation of moe elements into so many shows, even if it doesn't really belong, that's the problem. That should be obvious to anyone who's been watching anime at all for the last five years.


To a point . But to actually have a perspective on it and talk about it I think you would need to actually watch some. Especially some of the more popular ones that have good credibility. When speaking or arguing a point it does help out. They aren't all really the same.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 3 of 14

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group