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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:49 pm Reply with quote
I wish somebody would release the Blu-Ray version over here.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:31 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Somebody besides me, the two guys still working at AnimEigo, and the one guy maticulously archiving Usenet conversations from more than twenty years ago still remember Bubblegum Crisis?


Tons of people remember Bubblegum Crisis.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:20 pm Reply with quote
Kakugo wrote:
Princess Tutu? Probably not. [url=http://www.cracked.com/article_19443_7-classic-movies-you-didn't-know-were-rip-offs.html]Perfect Blue?[/url] You bet your ass he was familiar with it - he bought the rights from the producers to re-make it as a Hollywood film, which kind of ends any debate on whether or not Aaronofsky is a fan of Satoshi Kon (if not anime in general). And as for it being "his baby"... well, if you've seen both, the connections are pretty damn obvious. If you don't mind spoilers, the above link covers the bigger, bolder connections, but there's so damn many I'd waste everyone's time delivering a giant, tagged list


Yes, anyone who claims Perfect Blue wasn't a huge inspiration for Black Swan, or at the very least, Darren Aronofsky doesn't know of it or is a big fan of it is gasping at the tiniest straws in the world to save face. He's referenced it prior to Black Swan in his other movie Requiem for a Dream and has publicly displayed affection for it. But I suppose there will always be people who just refuse to admit that someone in Hollywood might actually copy or take ideas from a lowly anime. Even with the most glaring proof out there staring them in the face, they'll dismiss it as some blaring 'eastern superiority' trumpet. I mean, there's still people who refuse to believe Lion King was based on Kimba the White Lion, after all.

As for Inception, well, you got dozens of comparisons like these which I always find interesting

And Pacific Rim.. maybe it's just me but I found the main robot seems more like Renton's Nirvash than Evangelion. And funnily enough it's called "Eureka". Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:
And Tarantino will never admit that he more or less plagiarized another work, despite having been called out on it several times, and those call-outers even having discrediting remarks lobbed at them.


Same with the Wachowski Brothers who never have to admit they ripped off Grant Morrison's comic for The Matrix. Sadly, most of these little guys don't have the money to challenge big Hollywood groups in court, so they can do little more than criticize them on their blog or whatever.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:39 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Even with the most glaring proof out there staring them in the face, they'll dismiss it as some blaring 'eastern superiority' trumpet. I mean, there's still people who refuse to believe Lion King was based on Kimba the White Lion, after all.


There's also the Nadia and Disney's Atlantis comparisons. Well, you could state that they're just both inspired from Jules Verne's descriptions, except you wind up with far too many similarities in design and setting between these two. To say that animators had zero idea another animation by a well known director was nonexistent to them is ridiculous. The two are separated by a decade, and information travels much faster than that, especially through those in the same kind of business. Star Trek TNG had Gunbuster references, doing so in a much shorter time-frame with likely a lesser known title: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Takaya%27s_whale
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Kakugo



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:59 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
And Tarantino will never admit that he more or less plagiarized another work, despite having been called out on it several times, and those call-outers even having discrediting remarks lobbed at them.


He was a major dick about Reservoir Dogs, perhaps because he felt he still had something to prove to Hollywood as a unique talent. He had a pretty substantial change of heart a decade later when he made Kill Bill - the script itself and all the interviews he and the leads gave basically spell out which movies they're ripping off wholesale, and we've gotten to the point where he's writing original screenplays and then naming them after cult movies that have virtually nothing to do with them. (Seriously, Inglourious Basterds' connection with Enzo Castellari's film literally begins and ends with the words "World War II".)

Quote:
Pacific Rim looks like Del Toro's way of incorporating Lovecraftian monsters, now called kaijuu, against giant robots. They're not in the same breed of Godzilla "we did it to ourselves" monsters, given that the film seems to imply they're coming here through some portal under the ocean...


Like I said, it's closer to throwback 70s shows by Go Nagai and Ken Ishikawa - the Getter Machines fighting an army of robot dinosaurs from the Earth's core because that's friggin' awesome. No doubt Del Toro still has Cthulhu on the brain, but I'm not expecting the giant monsters here to be a terrifying guilt trip - while Honda's original Gojira is a masterpiece, it's also kind of a downer and not nearly as much fun as the movies where the Big G is just putting the throwdown on a new rubber suit of the month.

...have I mentioned how happy I am that Pacific Rim will finally put Bay's Transformers in their "Proof of Concept" box?


jsieczkar wrote:
While we are at it Battle Royale has a lot in common with some late 70's early 80's work by Stephen King, which have some things in common with some works by Richard Connell who worked in the early 20's. I'm sure I could trace this back to the origin of the written word if I had the interest or the time.


You can trace it back to the Legend of Theseus, at the very least. The Long Walk has some similar themes, though, I'll give you that. (The Running Man... not as much as people probably expect.)

You know what else the Battle Royale novel borrows from? The Lewis Teague 1991 TV movie Wedlock (explosive collars used by authority figures). If we include the film version, director Kinji Fukusaku has specifically said that the shootout in the lighthouse was inspired by the final scene from Reservoir Dogs. And yes, the film even used Air on a G String during a lengthy, violent execution, in a scene that has to have been made with the iconic sequence of Asuka tearing apart the Mass Production EVA one by one. That's right, BR ripped off EVA.

My point is borrowing ideas and even scenes from other films isn't a bad thing. Denying it, or pretending they haven't been pulled from their original source, is the problem because it denies or ignores a wealth of cultural and artistic material that people simply haven't been exposed to yet.
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Clyde_Cash



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:36 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
Somebody besides me, the two guys still working at AnimEigo, and the one guy maticulously archiving Usenet conversations from more than twenty years ago still remember Bubblegum Crisis?


Tons of people remember Bubblegum Crisis.


No shit. I own all of AnimEigo's old DVDs, which I found dirt cheap. Classic.
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:46 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Mikeski wrote:
(my view of Haibane's story removed.)
Well you're only partly right, but mostly incorrect.
(Mohawk's view of Haibane's story also removed.)

And I guess we'll respectfully disagree, since I still like my interpretation better. Wink

(Though "she didn't have to" was a strange disagreement; I never said "she had to". And the 2nd half was based solely on what was shown during the final ep's ending credits, so obviously plenty of room for interpretation there.)

Either way, being able to argue about the fine points of the story pretty much disproves Animegomaniac's theory that there wasn't a story at all...
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:49 pm Reply with quote
It turns out that I had whole lot of two of my questions answered. Despite there is some disagreement from Brian on both of them -- and it is fine, of course -- oddly, I do not disagree with those disagreements, because we mean different things:

1) as to A-1 works, I only meant their *recent* works (this is what I wrote in my question) that premièred in 2012; hopefully, this trend would continue. And, more importantly, I meant relatively consistent production quality, rather than strength of the project overall. This is why I listen Sword Art Online and Space Brothers, even though I have issues with corresponding stories. I did not really watch their other, older works, except for Black Butler (which was great production-wise), but I can easily imagine that those could be mediocre or bad;

2) Brian has different meaning of "lazy writing", indeed. I am getting mad at scenarists much more when they leave hanging issues here and there or forget what their story said just few episodes ago, thus contradicting to themselves -- rather than when they use "typical tropes" in their scenarios or someone else's jokes (though this does disappoint, at least it does not leave you feeling that authors think you are idiot with hen's memory that can not add two and two).

As to whole "grandchild company" thing, I found it quite entertaining to apply "political correctness" to "daughter company" phrase. According to this policy, you should not offend any generation of people, so stopping at "child company" would be rude according to current ethical standards. I thought I could not avoid grandchildren -- they are rightful members of our society, too. (That said, I do support political correctness in its basic form when it relates to humans -- however ridiculous it comes when people try to apply it everywhere.)

Anyway, answers, as always, were in-depth. There is nothing "lazy" in Brian's approach, even to my liking.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
As to whole "grandchild company" thing, I found it quite entertaining to apply "political correctness" to "daughter company" phrase. According to this policy, you should not offend any generation of people, so stopping at "child company" would be rude according to current ethical standards. I thought I could not avoid grandchildren -- they are rightful members of our society, too. (That said, I do support political correctness in its basic form when it relates to humans -- however ridiculous it comes when people try to apply it everywhere.)


I believe you are reading FAR too deep into things.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14763
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:19 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

But I do want to point out that just because someone denied something does not make that accusation false. Just because Darren Aronofsky denied that Perfect Blue was an influence does not mean he's automatically telling the truth.


Hey, as long as we place the same scrutiny on anime staff's words.


penguintruth wrote:
Somebody besides me, the two guys still working at AnimEigo, and the one guy maticulously archiving Usenet conversations from more than twenty years ago still remember Bubblegum Crisis?


Heck, we even have a newsgroup all by itself: alt.fan.bgcrisis

Besides, live-action BGC already took its cues from the live-action Blade Runner. Laughing
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Yumeko-chan



Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:08 am Reply with quote
*looks at her massive BGC collection behind her*

Nope, no idea what you're talking about Razz
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:54 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Somebody besides me, the two guys still working at AnimEigo, and the one guy maticulously archiving Usenet conversations from more than twenty years ago still remember Bubblegum Crisis?

Still got the old ones on bootleg vhs hiding somewhere. Got 2040 on dvd. So yes, I remember it in both forms.
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