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Fullmetal Alchemist '03 vs. Brotherhood: Let's compare.

Except that many of us who have been comparing the 2 series have never said we hate Brotherhood, and have even said that we are, in fact, enjoying it quite a lot at times. You are putting words in our mouths.

The only thing I really dislike about the manga's story at the moment is that Ed and Al's quest feels very secondary, and often gets shunted aside for other storylines, which may come back to bite Brotherhood, what with all of the re-affirming of their goals and whatnot they've been doing every other episode, lately. I think the 1st series was very good at weaving their quest in with the other plot lines, so I unless Brotherhood keeps a tighter lens on things, they'll likely fall behind as far as that goes, for me. But then I know there are some people who disliked how everything in the 1st anime practically revolved around Ed and Al, so, yeah, like it's been said a dozen times before, it pretty much comes down to your opinion. Tighter story telling, or a more open-ended universe, take your pick.

And I guess I'm one of the very few people who actually enjoyed the movie, heh. I can see why some people found it superfluous, but honestly, I don't think I would've been satisfied with the anime's ending. I know it's a show full of tragedies, and I wasn't ever expecting a nice, happy ending where everything works out perfectly, but to have Ed and Al go through that journey and develop this bond with eachother, and with the audience, only to have them be spoiler[permanently separated from eachother, and for Al to lose all of his memories of everything that has happened]... too much for me! Brotherhood, on the other hand, has the distinct possibility of ending on a much happier note, which I don't think was really an option for the 1st anime. It would certainly work much better for Brotherhood, and hey, who knows, I might even like it more. It's kind of one of those things that makes me wonder why they'd been pushing Brotherhood as a "dark fantasy," though, when the 1st series was much darker, heh.

Conversely, I think it can be argued that the 1st anime does a much better job at showing their brotherly connection, while the manga has given them more independent roles, which I think kind of relates back to preferring either more concise or more expansive methods of storytelling, in a way.

I completely disagree with this. I guess it's true that Ed & Al are not as dependent on each other as the first series. That they can do their own thing. But there is complete and utter trust in one another. It's because they trust and have faith in each other's abilities that they don't have to always depend on each other. Ed & Al believe in each other. That is an important part of their relationship to me.

I will grant you that the manga/Brotherhood handles the ending to the whole Al's memories storyline much better than the 1st anime, which has always been one of my least favorite changes. But I remember all of the other things you listed happening in the 1st anime.

And I really think that the 1st anime pulled off a lot of those scenes better than Brotherhood. Ed giving himself up to Scar after making him promise he wouldn't go after Al, for example. Even the animation of that scene was better in the 1st series, I'd say. I can see why they decided not to animate it the exact same way, but still, it just wasn't as powerful. And then the comedy at the end was just too much, whereas I feel the 1st series hit it right on the head.

The thing in episode 20 is kind of a unique situation - of course Al is going to be happy that Ed has discovered spoiler[they didn't transmute their mom.] But it's not like Ed called Al beforehand to let him know what he was going to do, or anything. And it seems to me more like Ed's the one who did all of the work and figuring things out there, then just relayed it to Al, and it's only then that Al reveals that he's been keeping certain thoughts from Ed. They've both kept things from each other, in both versions. And it's not that I don't think it's a great scene. I do think Brotherhood jumbled it a little bit, though.

You could compare it to later in the 1st anime, I guess, when Ed desecrates their mother's grave without telling Al, and yeah, that's a much worse thing for Ed to do, but I liked their opposing stances on the whole Sloth subject. I think it was a realistic take on the issue, and it created a nice dynamic - they don't have to be clones of each other to have a strong connection. And in the end, Al does come together with Ed to help defeat her, although Wrath also plays a large role there, too And whether they totally agree on the issue or not, Sloth is just one big, looming reminder of the sin they committed together.

To be honest, I'm over the whole "we trust/believe/have faith in each other!" thing. Not because it's unimportant, but it happens in practically every shonen title, and I fail to see where they cease trusting each other in the 1st anime.

Yes, of course they trust each other. But in the manga, they are just separated too often for some shounen trope to carry me through to Armstrong-level emotions over their brotherly bonds. I just feel it's closer to the surface in the 1st anime.

I'm going to have to agree with RhymesWithEmpty. It's a matter of consistency for me: I have trouble believing that the same person who would willingly give up his heart for a person would only a few years later be willingly separated from that person for an extended period of time, and that he wouldn't show any outward signs of worry or concern. Part of knowing somebody so intimately, and loving them for it, is also knowing what their biggest vices are. You may trust them implicitly, but you still worry about them like crazy.

And yeah, the shounen mantra of believing in others is all fine and dandy when you're trying to show the bonds of Nakama-ship - but familial love, the kind that comes from literally growing up together, is a different kettle of fish.

I also think that the Elrics in Brotherhood are much more alike in terms of personality than the Elrics in the first anime, which is why they're on the same wavelength. Personally, I find that lack of substantial conflict to be strange. What made the story of the first anime!Elric brothers so heart wrenching for me was how they didn't always see eye to eye, how they sometimes kept secrets from one another, how they sometimes had huge arguments, but, through it all, they still loved each other and stuck together. It made them much more relatable to me.

The only other thing that happened in the first anime was the thing with Scar. I barely ever remember Ed & Al sharing anything in the first series about what they did when they were on their own. And I certainly do not recall Al telling Ed to get over his guilt complex.

I disagree I liked the comedy. It made the scene more charming and showed that in the end they were just young boys. Not to mention I love when Al tells Ed maybe one day you can save a young girl like Nina. Because it's not just about Al losing his brother. It's about Ed giving up on his life when there is so much more he can accomplish.

And later on the first anime ignores this theme by having Ed & Al sacrifice themselves for each other. I am sure some fans loved this but I didn't because it misses the entire point of that earlier scene.

But Ed still told Al immediately when he got back. He wasn't trying to keep a secret from Al at all. Al just wasn't there and it's something he thought he needed to do now that he had the chance. It also makes sense why he wouldn't want to tell something like this to Al over the phone. Quite honestly if this was the first anime, I am pretty sure Al would have gotten angry and stormed off. And I don't really think Al was keeping anything from Ed either. He just told Ed what he has decided on when he was gone.

That one time would be fine if Al didn't go against Ed so many other times: run off with Scar, Tucker, and heck even Hohenheim when he saw how upset Ed was. It was a little too much for me. That really besides the anime telling me they were close and playing the song "Brothers" I could never feel it.

And I don't think Ed & Al are clones at all in this . Their personalities are different. For one thing Ed is much more rash and hot headed. While Al is a bit more mature and level headed. They are not the same people. But you can have different personalities and not go against each other every other second.

They don't always agree on everything but they work things out together and depend and rely on each other.

I purposely only mentioned scenes from Brotherhood. If I mentioned scenes in the manga I could show how their bond was even stronger. You don't have to be together every five seconds to be close. And I think people exaggerate the amount of times they are separated. They were not always together in the first series either. In fact I remember Al being with Scar just as much as Ed in the first series.

I am sorry I don't know any real life siblings that act like Ed & Al in the first anime. You can love someone but not be totally dependent on them, And yes I realize they would be dependent after what they've been through but at times I felt it was ridiculous in the first anime. They are brothers, not lovers.

It's not that I doubt that Ed & Al loved each other very much in the first series but the director did a lot of telling me and not showing me. I guess I don't always need things in my face to know that the characters care about each other. And I can see that characters who argue, keep secrets from another, disagree all the time love each other. But those things don't make me think they are close. Quite the opposite in fact.

Look I will agree that the first anime focuses more specifically on the relationship of Ed & Al. But that doesn't make Ed & Al closer in the first series. It was Ed & Al's relationship in the manga (yes I said manga not Brotherhood, but I am only watching Brotherhood for the manga) that got me into the series in the first place. So the idea that they are not as close in this version is absolutely ridiculous to me.

Well, maybe you don't remember it, but it was most certainly there. There was one scene in particular I always liked where Al is telling Ed to quit taking the blame for everything that happened that night, because he was the one who'd had a bad feeling about it, but he didn't act on it and prevent them from doing anything, making it just as much his burden as Ed's. Al complains that Ed is taking on too much of the burden a few times, as I recall. And maybe you just didn't like it because it was such a dark episode, and not in the manga, but the end of the Barry the Chopper ep. where they're sitting on the steps is a very emotional scene, one of my favorites, and they share quite a lot, right before affirming that they've got to look out for each other, because they're all they've got, and how they'll keep striving together.

So, what, they should've just walked away, or something? Ed is spoiler[basically dead,] and if Al doesn't do something, he's just going to be used by Dante. And would it really have been a satisfying ending if Ed just accepted Al's sacrifice within the last 15 minutes of the episode and decided to move on with his life? The 1st series is all about sacrifice, I don't think they should've taken some black and white stance on it. "Well, we established this way back in episode 15, I'd better not stray from that, despite the extreme differences in the situation." That would've just seemed unrealistic to me, as well. I think it had a lot of depth and emotion to it the way it was done, but, eh, again, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Well, of course he did, it was good news - morbid, but good. With the same results, I believe Al would've acted the same way. And I'm pretty sure what Al finally shares with Ed are meant to be the unnecessary thoughts that he has while up all night that he talks about earlier. Which do rather parallel Ed's nightmares, which I like, but we don't really have anything to suggest they've been sharing these thoughts beforehand, do we?

Yes, maybe Al does go against Ed more often in the 1st series, but they still always work things out, and do everything for each other in the end, which is part of the dynamic that makes them more interesting, and easier to relate to, for a lot of people.

And can you really fault Al for wanting to spend time with his father? That is one of the fundamental differences in both series - Ed loaths Hoenheim, where as Al is much more passive on the subject, and I don't think it fits right in line with his personality to say he'd be curious about him and want to get to know him. What would be completely out of character for him, to me, would for him to think, "Well, brother doesn't like him, so I'm just gonna put it completely out of mind and follow suit!"

The thing with Tucker was Ed being overprotective, and Al wanting to learn more about the stone so that they could actually utilize it and fulfill their dreams. Sure, he was being incredibly gullible, but hey, he's a 14 year old boy.

If there's any exaggeration here, it's the idea that Al spends just as much time with Scar as he does Ed. No, they weren't always together in the 1st anime, either, but the separation is typically on a much smaller scale. It's nice that in Brotherhood, they have been and will be getting involved in completely different conflicts/situations, it just occurs more than one might expect. In the 1st series, they get separated, but their situations are more closely related and intertwined. And even when Al is with Scar(which, yes, does happen every so often, but not that frequently), the interesting connection that they share is that they're both the younger brothers. They relate through the feelings they have for their older brothers, which serves to drive the point home even further, for me.

Well, for one, I think it's important to remember that Ed and Al have been through something together so extreme that it's impossible any pair of siblings could've really suffered anything similar - not to say it's the worst thing that could ever happen, but it's a very unique situation. So I think it makes perfect sense that aspects of their relationship and their bonds are portrayed to the extreme. And their opposing each other also falls in perfect line with typical sibling behavior. They're a pair of brothers who have been put through ridiculously extreme situations. I think evidence of that plays out very nicely in their relationship in the 1st series.

Another matter of personal taste, I guess. You want less, we want more. I don't think it came off as the director flat out telling us, "hey, they have strong bonds, they love each other!," but whatever. And what makes me think they are close is that they do go through all of that, and still end up overcoming it together. And I just think those traits, good and bad, are realistic and make them more endearing and relatable.

Well, to be honest, that sounds rather biased. Which I can't fault you for - maybe I am a bit biased myself, seeing as I saw the anime 1st, but I do genuinely love both versions of the story, to the point where if I had to choose between the two, my brain would explode But yeah, certainly, nobody is completely, 100% objective.

No I do not think either Ed & Al should have just walked away. But the director set up this final scene of self sacrifice that contradicts with this earlier scene. I am not blaming the characters themselves but I found the scene itself over bearing. Although I do like the music that was playing. In fact I love the first series OST.

Sacrifice is used way too often in stories that it has become a cliche I strongly dislike. And that is why I love that earlier scene because it says sacrifice is not going to make the other person happy. You are giving up on your life and all you can accomplish. And I think going back to them sacrificing themselves ruins the point of that scene.

Actually there were scenes that suggested they talked about their feelings earlier. They certainly talked about Al's feelings on the rooftop in the hospital. It doesn't mean they talk about them every second. But I never got the feeling this was the first time they talked about such things in the series.

No I do not fault Al for wanting to talk to Hohenheim. I do fault Al for running off with Hohenheim when he knew how Ed felt about it. He could have at least talked to Ed do something beforehand. Not just run off like that.

Exactly he is a year younger than Ed. I don't see why he should be that gullible or why Ed needs to be that over protective. I mean yes manga!Al was pretty gullible to believe Barry but this thing with Tucker was towards the end of the series. It seemed Al learned nothing. Especially after he knew what Tucker did to Nina.

Perhaps it was a slight exaggeration but the point is Ed & Al were not always together in the 1st series either. And while Scar did turn out to be a good person I do find it a bit odd that Al would so easily accept Scar who was the same person who earlier tried to kill his brother.

I did say I understand that they have been through a lot but I still felt their dependency on each other was overblown in the first series. And no I personally do not think their disagreements were typical sibling behavior at all.

Sure the story ended with them wanting to be together and leaving everyone else behind and barely saying goodbye, even to Winry (which certainly didn't endear me to either Ed or Al) but again that is just the story telling me how close they are. A lot of their specific actions in the story showed me something very different.

Everyone is biased, it's an opinion. But it doesn't lessen my point. Your point is they are not as close in Brotherhood. But the only thing you are really mentioning is that there is less of a specific focus on their relationship. This I will not argue with. But the story itself doesn't always have to focus on Ed & Al to show that they have a close and loving relationship. It's the way they specifically act around each other when they are together or even when they are apart and thinking of each other that shows me how close they are.

I did say I understand that they have been through a lot but I still felt their dependency on each other was overblown in the first series. And no I personally do not think their disagreements were typical sibling behavior at all.

I think that's part of Al's inherent ability to see the good in everybody. Perhaps that was also a factor with Tucker. It's one of his biggest strengths, and also one of his biggest weaknesses, I think. He is the type to try and understand, rather than to hold grudges. And I don't think it's an immediate thing, really - he starts out questioning him and trying to get him to stop going after Ed in lab 5, and that's where their understanding begins. That's just how Al goes about doing things.