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Sword Art Online (TV).


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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:56 am Reply with quote
your argument failed because it has nothing to do with override the rules of the game through willpower.

my argument is the spoiler[game creator has the power to override the rule. So you think the game creator can't have the power of an item?]

argue whatever you want. The fact is spoiler[Asuna and Kirito didn't save themself with willpower. It was the creator who saved them,]
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:20 am Reply with quote
Okay then, spoiler[why did the creator save them]?
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15511
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:36 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Okay then, spoiler[why did the creator save them]?
To spoiler[carry on his evil plan of putting the entire world in VR.] *evil laugh*
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:29 am Reply with quote
Well considering how Kirito (LN spoiler) spoiler[gets the World Seed (basically the source code for SAO and it's engine) and even though he just had an extremely traumatic experience he decides it'd be a great idea to release it globally so that there can be a lot more VRMMOs for people to become addicted to and escape from reality in, that would actually be quite plausible.] But unfortunately that idea is a crock of shit (like SAO in general) because the novel clearly states spoiler[that is via both Asuna and Kirito's willpower ("Just to save me, the shy and spoiled Asuna had shaken off the incurable paralysis with her willpower and thrown herself against an attack that was impossible to block. How could I fall now without doing anything. I couldn't fall now, absolutely not. Even if I couldn't avoid death— I had to— at least— ") or what is in reality the author's laziness of not being able to come up with a better solution than willpower to beat Kayaba.]

Also latest CRAWLING to be found here, episode 14 spoilers obviously.

EDIT: Added LN spoiler warning, sorry about that.


Last edited by Megiddo on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:51 am Reply with quote
Ok... The post above mine contains the biggest future spoiler in this series. Read at your own risk.

And again, it might be simple laziness, but the spoiler[incarnate system] theory is still out there. Since neither Accel World nor Sword Art Online are finished yet, we don't know.

People need to realize that, like Accel World, SAO is an ongoing story. Just because there are details people don't know yet does not mean they won't be explained in the future.

There are a lot of theories that are strongly hinted at but never directly confirmed regarding some unexplained things in both stories. The most popular/obvious one being spoiler[(Kazuto/Asuna being Kuroyukihime's parents], but there are several more.
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Greggy



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:47 am Reply with quote
There is just one thing I wanna point out about the SAO story, which is volume 1. The author states it in his notes that go alone with the volume as well. The fact is light novels have length limits and this greatly affected the story, which he admits was suppose to be much longer.

Thus we can assume had he not had these limitations the story would have been much more detailed and balanced. Having read the light novels after the anime started I have quite a lot of appreciation for how smooth the series actually went.

Well haters are probably still gonna hate, but at least try to take those points into consideration instead of just calling it bad writing!
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:37 am Reply with quote
Greggy wrote:
There is just one thing I wanna point out about the SAO story, which is volume 1. The author states it in his notes that go alone with the volume as well. The fact is light novels have length limits and this greatly affected the story, which he admits was suppose to be much longer.

Thus we can assume had he not had these limitations the story would have been much more detailed and balanced. Having read the light novels after the anime started I have quite a lot of appreciation for how smooth the series actually went.

Well haters are probably still gonna hate, but at least try to take those points into consideration instead of just calling it bad writing!


I have generally agreed with those who have complained about the writing. Yes, I understand that the source material was a light novel format and there are some restrictions, however as I have been saying all along there are just serious issues of character development in SAO. Maybe it is just because the author was still inexperienced when writing it - he wrote it to compete for the Dengeki Novel Prize, but apparently SAO was too long to enter at the time. However, if you compare SAO to Accel World which he wrote years later and actually WON the Dengeki Prize with, I think you can clearly see the growth in his ability to write a compelling character or two. The characters from Accel World are miles ahead of those from SAO as far as developing them into believable human beings who the audience can root for.

Also, as I said previously SAO didn't focus enough on a consistent story line and group of side characters who could be slowly developed over time along with the main characters. Instead, the story in SAO seemed very disjointed and most interaction with side characters was short and made them seem more like distractions from the author's laser focus on Kirito and Asuna. If he was going to so heavily focus the story on these two, he should have invested a LOT more time and effort developing them into amazing characters for the audience to fall in love with.
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Greggy



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:23 am Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Greggy wrote:
There is just one thing I wanna point out about the SAO story, which is volume 1. The author states it in his notes that go alone with the volume as well. The fact is light novels have length limits and this greatly affected the story, which he admits was suppose to be much longer.

Thus we can assume had he not had these limitations the story would have been much more detailed and balanced. Having read the light novels after the anime started I have quite a lot of appreciation for how smooth the series actually went.

Well haters are probably still gonna hate, but at least try to take those points into consideration instead of just calling it bad writing!


I have generally agreed with those who have complained about the writing. Yes, I understand that the source material was a light novel format and there are some restrictions, however as I have been saying all along there are just serious issues of character development in SAO. Maybe it is just because the author was still inexperienced when writing it - he wrote it to compete for the Dengeki Novel Prize, but apparently SAO was too long to enter at the time. However, if you compare SAO to Accel World which he wrote years later and actually WON the Dengeki Prize with, I think you can clearly see the growth in his ability to write a compelling character or two. The characters from Accel World are miles ahead of those from SAO as far as developing them into believable human beings who the audience can root for.

Also, as I said previously SAO didn't focus enough on a consistent story line and group of side characters who could be slowly developed over time along with the main characters. Instead, the story in SAO seemed very disjointed and most interaction with side characters was short and made them seem more like distractions from the author's laser focus on Kirito and Asuna. If he was going to so heavily focus the story on these two, he should have invested a LOT more time and effort developing them into amazing characters for the audience to fall in love with.


Yeah was I thinking about noting that SAO was his first work as well and all, but none of the characters in the side stories were actually in the first volume. When the story got popular he went back and made a second volume with side stories so he could make a more competent continuation of the story in the third volume and onwards.

I think they probably could have gotten away with not adding in the side stories for lizbeth and silica because they won't really be shown besides a few seconds in the real world going forward, but oh well.

I still think Kirito was developed fairly well and the author did a good job building up his character with some of the side stories. Asuna is meh I don't like her anyways.

I think the anime going forward will be a lot better. The whole alfheim arc should flow smoothly and be better balanced with more action. Just hold on guys it gets better! lol
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:55 pm Reply with quote
And yet despite all of the supposed writing problems (and I don't dispute that there are some), it's still the year's most popular new series - and by a wide margin, too, as I understand it.

And again I'll point out that 24-26 episode series mustering 50+ pages of responses puts them in rarefied air and we're now at 78 pages for just 14 episodes, or 5.5+ pages/episode and still climbing. (Only The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya now stands above it for 2 cour or less series on the first point or for any series on the second point, and that one had years to get that high.) That's a sure sign that it's continuing to be popular and effective despite all of its problems.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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Location: IL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:36 pm Reply with quote
I don't think anybody in this thread has doubted SAO's popularity. Just like I don't think anybody has doubted the popularity of 50 Shades of Gray, the Twilight series, or the song Friday.
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Greggy



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:41 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
I don't think anybody in this thread has doubted SAO's popularity. Just like I don't think anybody has doubted the popularity of 50 Shades of Gray, the Twilight series, or the song Friday.


Ouch what a horrible and cruel comparison.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:56 pm Reply with quote
This anime is popular because most anime fans are basically incapable of seeing bad writing.

At this point this show is nothing more than a guilty pleasure for me.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
And yet despite all of the supposed writing problems (and I don't dispute that there are some), it's still the year's most popular new series - and by a wide margin, too, as I understand it.

And again I'll point out that 24-26 episode series mustering 50+ pages of responses puts them in rarefied air and we're now at 78 pages for just 14 episodes, or 5.5+ pages/episode and still climbing. (Only The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya now stands above it for 2 cour or less series on the first point or for any series on the second point, and that one had years to get that high.) That's a sure sign that it's continuing to be popular and effective despite all of its problems.


Similar to what Megiddo said, I am certainly not questioning the popularity of SAO. However, I would also submit that part of the reason that there is so much feedback on this particular show is that you have a core group of intense supporters/fans and a bunch of other people who think there are serious flaws, and the gulf between them is just so massive that each side is spending a lot of time arguing every single little point down to the most minute detail. Most of us have been in a few of those arguments. That is why there are so many pages in the thread, not because everyone loves the show so much that they are going on and on endlessly about its greatness.

As far as the popularity of SAO, I rarely use popularity to analyze the merits of a particular show or other work. For example, The Hunger Games has been insanely popular, even though I think it pales in comparison to Harry Potter. This is coming from a person who is NOT a Harry Potter fan and has occasionally had a laugh at the expense of the Harry Potter obsession. However, I have seen all of the Harry Potter films and have no choice but to admit that they are outstanding and the Harry Potter story is very well written. The Hunger Games, by comparison, comes across as just another Twilight-esque wish-fulfillment involving young love/love triangles with a bunch of eye-popping violence and fantasy settings thrown in. Again, both Harry Potter and The Hunger Games were extremely popular, but in my mind there is no question that there is something about the whole Harry Potter experience, including great writing, that makes it far superior to The Hunger Games.

I bring that same perspective to my analysis of SAO. It is popular yes, but in my opinion, so far it is another example of entertaining wish-fulfillment which is sub-standard on story telling and character development.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:23 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Similar to what Megiddo said, I am certainly not questioning the popularity of SAO. However, I would also submit that part of the reason that there is so much feedback on this particular show is that you have a core group of intense supporters/fans and a bunch of other people who think there are serious flaws, and the gulf between them is just so massive that each side is spending a lot of time arguing every single little point down to the most minute detail.

Actually, I disagree that the gulf is "massive," since even most ardent supporters (at least around here, anyway) still acknowledge that the series has its problems and even the biggest naysayers still acknowledge that the series does some things and episodes very well. The main difference is that the detractors tend to focus more on the problems while the supporters tend to focus more on the series' merits despite its problems.

Quote:
As far as the popularity of SAO, I rarely use popularity to analyze the merits of a particular show or other work.

Oh, I agree, and was not trying to imply otherwise. I was just making an (admittedly rather pointed) observation.
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
And yet despite all of the supposed writing problems (and I don't dispute that there are some), it's still the year's most popular new series - and by a wide margin, too, as I understand it.

And again I'll point out that 24-26 episode series mustering 50+ pages of responses puts them in rarefied air and we're now at 78 pages for just 14 episodes, or 5.5+ pages/episode and still climbing. (Only The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya now stands above it for 2 cour or less series on the first point or for any series on the second point, and that one had years to get that high.) That's a sure sign that it's continuing to be popular and effective despite all of its problems.


First of all, Transformers, just to get the popular =/= good bs out of the way. Second of all, I see a lot of people who don't really enjoy the show itself. They enjoy talking about it, because it's the hot topic and everyone talks about it. There are a ton of threads in 4chan about SAO. Most of them bash it mercilessly or are made to troll the bashers. When we look over those 78 pages here, aren't a large part of them simply bashing and arguing over plot holes and each other's attitude? The show simply gives a lot of ammo and not in a good way.

Why do people watch it? It's not because it's very good and/or intriguing (like Madoka was for example). Not in most cases I've seen anyway. There's a hook that keeps you watching, whether it be the discussion afterwards, Asuna being a waifu material, the overall setting (the world and mmo elements) being interesting or the characters being likable enough.



Personally, I don't think it is offensively bad. I think it's pedestrian. I like the setting enough, Asuna is waifu material, Kirito is believable and likable enough as a human being. But I cannot accept the way the romance spoiler[(first kiss, sex and marriage in one day, ha)] progressed so the tender moments later that others have praised ring hollow to me. I don't like that the gameplay and mechanics are subject to shonen cliches spoiler[(willpower overcoming mathematically set limits, there being "unique skills" etc.)]. It's simply lazy and uninspired, I can't find it to be emotionally satisfying. I don't like the overall pacing - spoiler[Prologue ->side stories -> more side stories -> some level clearing/hook-up -> honeymoon, which felt like more side stories -> some level clea... nope, climax and resolution.] So was it about the world, the couple or the central conflict? Because it felt more like the show was jumping around instead of incorporating all into a single narrative.

I don't think I'll continue to watch it week to week (I already didn't watch the honeymoon episodes), but I'll probably keep up with it, just to know what people complain about next. It's that kind of show and I'm that kind of anime fan. Very Happy
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