Forum - View topicMost Improved Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4615 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Okay, so I've never been terribly exited about this one. I could think of only two to possibly nominate- one was a fan favorite and the other I'm a bit surprised no one nominated, but didn't really care about the show much (Kenichi, The Mightiest Disciple), so I didn't feel bad I didn't make a fuss about it. Then I decided that I'd be purposely completely ignorant of the matches until the tourney actually started. I haven't read any descriptions, haven't read anyone's thought about what the tourney "should" be- just the rules and the character descriptions.
and so... Group A-1 Aido Hanabusa, Vampire Knight vs. Ayaka Steiger, Kurau Pahntom Memory Voting For: Ayaka Steiger The Description seems to suggest Aido doesn't improve or change so much as his relationship improves. He'd still be a brat to someone else, just not the main character. Group A-2 Bart Garsus, Vandread vs. Chi, Chobits Voting For: Chi I'd say she's a bit more than a blank slate learning her way. The fact that she can improve on a past she didn't even know she had is impressive in its own way. Group A-3 Ayato Naoi, Angel Beats! vs. Eureka, Eureka 7 Voting For: Eureka Group A-4 Gaara, Naruto franchise vs. Gauche, Gauche the Cellist Voting For: Gauche Gaara is deserving and I haven't seen Gauche, but it sounds like a perfect little tale of how exactly to improve in just the right way. Group A-5 Haruka Suzumiya, Rumbling Hearts vs. Haruko Kamio, Air Voting For: Haruko Kamio My lingering dislike for Rumbling Hearts and the way it treats its characters makes it impossible to take their development seriously, and really, is it a great change or just being forced to grow up? A lot of $#!@ happens to her and she changes- but she was a good person before, she was a good person after- dealing with that $#!@ doesn't really mean improvement. Haruko's change is very affecting and deeply felt. Group A-6 Inuyasha, Inuyasha franchise vs. Hiei, Yu Yu Hakusho Voting For: Inuyasha Group A-7 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shoujo Cosette vs. Haruyuki Arita, Accel World Voting For: Haruyuki Arita An anime version of Les Miserables? Really? Man, even if I didn't have a small problem with that being entered I'd have to say his circumstances improve more than he does himself, allowing him to be the good person he already is. Haruyuki is one of those "improvement personified" type characters in anime and even though the anime as it stands hasn't gotten terribly far into its wider story he has improved significantly. Group A-8 Clare, Claymore vs. Erio Touwa, Ground Control to Psychoelectic Girl[/quote] Voting For: Clare |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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For the purposes of this tournament, how are we supposed to handle something like this (which I admit, I had forgotten existed). The OVA is, after all, a different continuity from the ending of the series. |
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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Group A-1 : This is a tough one because I'm not really familiar with either character, but I'm going to go with Aido Hanabusa--mostly because I dropped the Vampire Knight manga partially because I found the two love interests so frustrating, particularly Kaname, so I like that them not being particularly great for Yuki ended up being part of the plot and he was more supportive to the main character. (I know this is a pretty weak argument, so I doubt I'll vote for him again, but he doesn't seem to have a huge chance of winning anyway. It's my post and I'll vote how I want to!)
Group A-2: Chi Group A-3: I want to vote for Ayato since he's one of my favorite characters from Angel Beats!, but I'm concerned that his improvement might have been a bit too sudden in the context of the show to be worth voting for. I'm not as familiar with Eureka, but the guide makes her improvement sound both substantial and well-paced, so she's got my vote. Group A-4: Gaara, because the video that Vaisaga posted is AWESOME. Group A-5: Haruka Suzumiya--haven't seen either series, so the arguments convinced me on this one. Group A-6 : Hiei Group A-7: Haruyuki Arita Group A-8: Clare |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Group A-1
Ayaka Steiger, Kurau Phantom Memory I have watched VK, as opposed to Kurau, and Aido never seemed to me like a character that showed any change or development, just a guy that was there amongst a lot of other good-looking guys, so I'll go with the character I don't know Group A-2 Chi, Chobits While Bart's improvement was very heart-touching, it came out in a very one-moment fashion and never progressed from there. Chi, on the other hand, constantly learns and evolves throughout the series, thanks to the books and her interactions with humans and Persocom Group A-3 Eureka, Eureka Seven Group A-4 Gauche, Gauche the cellist Haven't watched either, but reading through their introductions I felt more compelled to vote for Gauche, rather than Gaara, who seems your stereotypical shonen secondary character with a sad sad past. Group A-5 Haruko Kamio, Air. Group A-6 Hiei, Yu Yu Hakusho Group A-7 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shojo Cosette Another case of one show I've watched and one I haven't, and voting against the one I've watched. Haruyuki is such an awful character, full of self-deprecation and always running away from real life trouble, and by at least the third quarter of the show he has progressed little in that particular area, so I can't say he has improved at all. Group A-8 Clare, Claymore Clare is an obvious choice for this round. She learns through the series to get back in touch with her human side, to interact with Raki and to allow herself to have emotions instead of giving up to revenge and becoming a monster |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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Well, I brought it up to show that she'd change even when things went her way, rather than only changing because she had to. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18227 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I also never realized that those OVAs (for Rumbling Hearts) even existed, as I don't think that they were included with the original DVD release. Vaisaga's reasoning here for figuring them in is, I think, acceptable. In general, with 15 votes in we have fairly tight races in four of the match-ups (including two separated by only one vote) and only one match-up that's a complete blow-out. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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The OVA is a separate thing released years later, not a DVD extra.
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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I don't know alternate endings are just "What ifs" to me in general and they can take any form like good guys turning into bad guys and vice versa. For example, in an alternate universe "What if" Magneto is a good guy and Professor X is a bad guy. How accurate of a portrayal of the character's true personality is it then? I'm just saying that's my general view, but I could see looking at it on a case by case basis. |
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rosebrook11
 Posts: 1181 |
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Group A-1
Aido Hanabusa, Vampire Knight vs. Ayaka Steiger, Kurau Pahntom Memory Voting for Ayaka Steiger even though I haven't seen that show (yet really want to) and have seen Vampire Knight. Aido, while I like the character, doesn't change that much in the limited scope of the anime. Group A-2 Bart Garsus, Vandread vs. Chi, Chobits Voting for Chi. I was debating throughout nominations if I should support Chi or not (I don't even remember what I did) but her story and improvement always fills me with so much joy. Group A-3 Ayato Naoi, Angel Beats! vs. Eureka, Eureka 7 Voting for Eureka. I literally just finished watching a few episodes of Angel Beats and while I do like Ayato, his change is all too sudden, even if understandable. A single episode cannot compare the amazing and complex gradual changes that Eureka undergoes throughout what I've seen so far of Eureka Seven. Group A-4 Gaara, Naruto franchise vs. Gauche, Gauche the Cellist Gaara Group A-5 Haruka Suzumiya, Rumbling Hearts vs. Haruko Kamio, Air This is the toughest match for me in this round. I just finished watching Air yesterday and Haruko is easily my favorite character in the series and I love the way the show portrays her relationship with Misuzu... but I have to give my vote to Haruka instead because of how much I was surprised by her character and her choices. I loved the fact that her improvement was not restricted to one level as she improved herself in different ways throughout different times of the series. In the end, Group A-6 Inuyasha, Inuyasha franchise vs. Hiei, Yu Yu Hakusho Hiei because I think his character improves more on a whole then when compared to Inuyasha. Hiei changes his perception of mankind and becomes more accepting of them while Inuyasha only becomes slightly less of a jerk. Group A-7 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shoujo Cosette vs. Haruyuki Arita, Accel World Voting for Haruyuki. I've only seen the first episode of Accel World, but the guide entry convinced me to vote for him over Jean Valjean. Group A-8 Clare, Claymore vs. Erio Touwa, Ground Control to Psychoelectic Girl Clare. Erio looks to be a really adorable character, but I think Clare's improvement is more complex and covers more feels. Also, I don't think Erio is the best example in this tournament of a character learning to come out of their shell. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
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After re-doing my mini game bracket twice I have no more confidence than I did with incarnation #1. I do not expect to place in the top 5, probably not even top 10, this time around. As long as I am not dead last I'll be happy lol. For at least the first round of all brackets I'm also only going to give detailed explanations for characters I'm more passionate about. Any others are getting a generic reason. Those reasons also signify early on a possible willingness to be persuaded on my part for that round or future rounds. Just an FYI. So on to the first round.
Group A-1 Ayaka Steiger, Kurau Pahntom Memory Reason: Ayaka simply is the better choice here. Aido is not as memorable for one I think, and in terms of progression Ayaka changes and progresses more as a character by far than Aido. Virtually everyone in Kurau went through major character change so those picks from Kurau will be tough to beat early on I think. Group A-2 Bart Garsus, Vandread Reason: I know some think Chi develops more but she really does not. She goes from being basically almost without a personality to having one. But that's not the same as developing your personality to me. Now I'm talking about Chi simply as Chi. No elda/freya stuff here. To me "Chi" is a separate entity. Given that Bart develops much more during Vandread than Chi does. He doesn't simply become less prejudice towards women, he becomes capable. He went from being the pointless comic relief to having a back bone and morals. He becomes more serious and grows a lot through the events of the show. He I think grows more than Hibiki did honestly. While Chi does grow yes I think Bart simply grows more as a character during his respective show. He should at least go on to round 2. Group A-3 Eureka, Eureka 7 Reason: Eureka without a doubt to me is one of my personal strongest characters to support here. I think she doesn't get perhaps enough credit. Given her background and her past and the person she was when Renton met her in episode 1 she progressed as a person more than almost anyone in that show. The only possible exception being Renton himself. She went from being a shell of a person basically to a complete person by the end. She easily deserves to win this round and move on. Group A-4 Gaara, Naruto franchise Reason: Gaara is another strong one for me. He goes from being a villain with murderous intent (and poster child for Naruto Hot Topic winner next to Sasuke) and a loner to someone who appreciates his friends and those around him. His village rallies to defend him and believe in him and he becomes a good leader for the sand people. While naruto may be a simple shonen show Gaara does deserve to win this round hands down. Group A-5 Haruka Suzumiya, Rumbling Hearts Reason: Just going with people's arguments, nominations, and my gut for this one. Group A-6 Inuyasha, Inuyasha franchise Reason: I'm sorry but those who say he is stale and does not develop are wrong. Yes his development was much slower than Hiei but Hiei had much less time to develop as a side character in a show half as long. Especially in the movies Inu Yasha develops even more. I know it may seem like he doesn't but from episode 1 to when the show ended he was nowhere near the same person. He grew as a fighter, he learned to appreciate others and depend on them/support them, he learned to accept himself and let go of his past. Yes the whole Kikiyo/Kagome issue was dragged out but that's what Rumiko Takahashi does. Any of you seen Ranma? I'm not discounting Hiei here as he does progress himself. To me though if you take each character from their first appearance to the last Inu Yasha was more different as a person and had grown more overall than Hiei had. If you're just casting a vote against simply as an anti-vote rather than basing it on the characters actual merits I think you're making a mistake and casting a vote in error. Now before anyone jumps on me for being an Inu Yasha love I HATE THE SHOW personally. It was me ex gf's favorite show and if I never see another episode I will die a happy man. However I have to be honest and fair here and he does progress more by the end of his show than Hiei does even if I like Hiei more. Group A-7 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shoujo Cosette Reason: I love Le Mis and Jean was my favorite character honestly. I won't go on a fanboy rant here but his development should get him past this round. He is arguably an architect for many of these characters given his background in literature. At least i think so. =p Group A-8 Clare, Claymore Reason: Clare should win this easily. She progresses a longggggg way from the weak person she was at the start of the series. Her growth as a warrior pales compared to her growth as a person and coming to terms with who she is and her past (without giving away spoilers). I think she will have tough competition moving on but in this round she is clearly the better choice. The ending to the anime series was utter crap but just ignore the last 2 episodes (rushed that as it had caught up to the manga I believe) and focus on the rest and read the manga. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18227 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I entirely disagree with this statement, both on the ending being utter crap (but that's a discussion for a different thread) and on ignoring the final 2 episodes, as one of the most important pieces of Clare's character development comes in that final episode. |
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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Group A-1
Ayaka Steiger, Kurau Pahntom Memory Going with Ayaka. Group A-2 Bart Garsus, Vandread Because getting over being obnoxious is a lot more interesting than Chi ever is. Group A-3 Eureka, Eureka 7 Most of the side characters in Angel Beats didn't have very well executed development. Eureka's story has a lot more room to focus on character development of its lead. Group A-4 Gaara, Naruto franchise Mostly because I haven't seen Gauche, and the description makes his improvement sound somewhat artificial anyway. Group A-5 Haruko Kamio, Air Haruka is sweet, but she starts out that way. She handles what comes her way very well, but her outlook and character don't really change. Haruko from AIR, on the other hand, definitely has some convincing change of character in the right direction over the course of the show, leading to several emotionally powerful scenes that simply wouldn't have happened had she not had her change of heart. Group A-6 Hiei, Yu Yu Hakusho Let's go with Hiei. I trust a story as long-running as Inuyasha has room for character improvement but I haven't read/seen it. Group A-7 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shoujo Cosette Sorry, chubby, I know standing up for yourself takes some guts you didn't have at the start of the story, but you're out. Group A-8 Clare, Claymore No contest. Erio does improve in her story, but hers is nothing compared to Clare's. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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The ignoring the final 2 episodes was in jest and exaggeration just to be clear. Little hyperbole there. I stand by though the feeling that overall they were entirely rushed and just fell flat. I am pretty sure I know exactly what piece of character development you're talking about. I agree that it is important and more....impactful to her character if that's a good word to use. I still feel the episodes AS A WHOLE were rushed, botched, and just could have been done much better with more care given to them. This opinion is also based on how well the series had been handled up to that point. I expected the same level of care, attention, and commitment and I don't feel they gave it to us. Again, I know they caught up to the manga material but more of an effort could have been given I think. Perhaps I just had too high of expectations and when those episodes didn't live up to my expectations I become bitter. Entirely possible as I am a bitter cranky bastard. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Group A-1
Aido Hanabusa, Vampire Knight Going with the one I've seen. Group A-2 Bart Garsus, Vandread Group A-3 Eureka, Eureka 7 I can't see much argument here. Eureka has 50 episodes to develop in a more open and decisive person. Naoi is a side character who has a major change in a single episode, because we are to believe that Otonashi is just that good a therapist. Group A-4 Gaara, Naruto franchise While Naruto also has the "Turn enemies into friends" power, Gaara's change is more gradual and convincing. Driven more by his changed ideals instead of persuasion. Group A-5 Haruka Suzumiya, Rumbling Hearts I'll go with Haruka because there are larger changes to her character in comparison with Haruko, whose change only has to do with her attitude towards Misuzu. Group A-6 Inuyasha, Inuyasha franchise I've seen neither, but Inuyasha is the main character so I'll guess that he has been developed more. Group A-7 Jean Valjean, Les Miserables Shoujo Cosette I have not seen it (unlike Accel Word). But, unless this version of Valjean has almost nothing in common with the original, he wins. Group A-8 Clare, Claymore I'm trusting others for this one. Erio didn't really change after the first arc and honestly I liked her better in that futon. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18227 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Put that way, I can't entirely disagree - and no, I don't mean about the "bitter, cranky bastard" part.  I'm still fully convinced that the end of the series (i.e., the resolution after the final battle effectively ended, which is what's most relevant to this tournament) was carefully planned and set up over the course of the entire series, rather than just being a haphazard quickie wrap-up, and the signs of that are evident throughout if one looks for them.* (And the true climactic scene does have a strong parallel in the manga.) However, I must agree that the final battle is, well, lame. It finally succumbed to the shonen powermongering that the series had been flirting with throughout its entire run and made some questionable decisions as a result.
* - I'd be happy to go into more spoilerrific detail about this at some point if people are interested, as I do think some of it is relevant to this tournament, but Clare's so overpowering her current match-up that she hardly needs the supporting arguments now. |
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