Forum - View topicREVIEW: Fate/stay night Blu-Ray 2
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Kit-Tsukasa
Posts: 930 |
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All I want to say is:
1) ufotable should reboot Fate/Stay Night (Fate route) and Fate/Zero into a joint 50 episode series...just to please those who complained that the "ending" for Fate/Zero was unsatisfying or bad because it wasn't a "happy" one....and for kicks of course 2) ufotable should adapt UBW (I pretend the trash that DEEN made doesn't exist) 3) Heaven's Feel and Ataraxia better not be by DEEN or any other studio that still can't get the idea that we're in a 720p/HD age now |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18252 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Absolutely not. F/Z had the exactly right ending for what it was supposed to do, which was provide a lead-in to F/SN, and that it did beautifully. Anyone who gets hung up on how it doesn't have a "happy" ending should just go cry in a corner where I can't hear them. ikillchicken: Again, I'm trying not to turn this in to a full-blown F/Z discussion by refuting in detail all of your points, but if you honestly think that F/Z failed to develop its characters then you weren't watching the same series I was. I thought most of the key cast members got developed quite nicely. |
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acetatsujin
Posts: 208 |
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The visual novel defines what Fate is all about, with 5 arcs and a Final Episode plus an extra ending from Taiga and Elya. Those who are true fans of the Fate series know what I'm talking about.
As for the review, it was alright but it wasn't as informative and was misleading in different ways. Fate/Stay Night VN is one of the best stories you'll ever read and it completely explains how the system works and who those characters really are. Saber's exact past and her relation to her crown, her soldiers, Lancer's past as well, Archer plays a very, very big part in the Unlimited Blade Works and don't forget Saber Alter and Dark Sakura in Heaven's Feel arc. There's just way too many things to talk about here. I'm really disappointed in this review and those who write articles about Fate series. Please do a more thorough research on the Fate universe and give more proper details. |
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jymmy
 Posts: 1244 |
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This was a review about the Fate/stay night anime. No one should have to play a hundred plus-hour video game in order to talk about a ten-hour anime. The only inappropriate thing in this review was all the talk about the anime adaptation of the work to which the work to which the Fate/stay night anime was an adaptation was a prequel not being categorised as trivia or "a note to new fans" but as something truly relevant to evaluatating the Fate/stay night anime (really, it's like saying that Darth Vader spoiler[being Luke's father] is a crappy plot twist because we already found it out in Episode III).
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Echo_City
Posts: 1236 |
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TBH, Fate/Zero made me appreciate Fate/Stay night more, but not for the "usual" reasons.
I am not a fan of dramatic irony. It annoyed me to no end in the TV show 24 where I, the viewer, knew the identity/scheme of the villains while the heroes bumbled about in ignorance and following from that I was ready to rage at Fate/Zero as it ladled on the dramatic irony beyond excess. It was bad enough when I knew who the masters were, but once it was shown that there were some masters who knew the identity of the other masters and repeatedly refused to act on this information, despite going on repeated wannabe-Shakesperian monologues (or suggestive conversations with members of the same sex) about their need for the Grail and how "nothing could stop them [etc]", it became all that I could do to sit through it. I found myself often imploring the screen to answer the following, as I started to lapse into insanity over the inanity of it all: you know who you need to kill, I know who you need to kill, you say that you have no qualms about making the kill, so why don't you just go and do it already?! In Fate/Zero, the masters refrained from advancing their agendas for no real reason except to drag out the show. Oh, they prattled on and on about their "reasons" for refraining, often in the same breath that they boasted about their ruthlessness, but their reasons amounted to naught. Many a time another master was lined up in the sniper's gunsights, the shot was clear, and then for no legitimate reason the shot was aborted. This was often preceded, and succeeded, by yet another "I'm so ruthless; no one can stop me mu-hu-ha-ha-ha" monologue. In-frickin-furiating. Fate/Stay and UBW lacked the barrage of verbose monologues, balanced out the fanservice with a healthy helping of the more traditional (and explicit) and had more graphic violence (the Gilgamesh of UBW and FSN was so foreign to that of FZ) and action to smooth out their flaws to a greater degree than did Fate/Zero. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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You know, it's perfectly fine if you don't want to talk about F/Z. But it's kinda tacky to repeatedly imply that you can refute all my criticisms and then turn around and refuse to do so because you don't want to get into it.
You're putting words in my mouth. I said F/Z failed to develop some of its characters. I liked Kiritsugu and Kirei and I think Waver and Rider were good and so was Archer (again, to be clear, it has never been my contention that F/Z is a bad show) but some characters (Saber being the one of the most prevalent) are just kinda there and never really develop much. Same goes for Berserker even more so. It seems like he deserved a whole arc (which would of course have been an ideal spot to do more with Saber) but he only gets a super brief side battle at the end.
You know, the idea that a show shouldn't need to stand on its own and the VN should be required reading for those watching it is pretty absurd to begin with...but even more so, your chance of maintaining any sense of legitimacy went right out the window when you stated talking about "true fans". How about this: Why don't you and the rest of the "true fans" go sit in the corner out of the way and have your little circle jerk. Because the rest of us are trying to have a real discussion and it would be unfortunate if you got in the way. Last edited by ikillchicken on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I thought you already had, given how much you talked about Fate/ZERO in this here Fate/Stay Night review. |
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Seif
 Posts: 457 |
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One of the biggest shortcomings that FS/N has in lieu of Zero is with the nature of the Heroic Spirits themselves. With the exception of Saber (and Archer in UBW) the identities of the Servants are completely inconsequential. Zero did a fantastic job of making the individual histories and motives of these legends relevant in terms of character interaction. It actual meant something to have spoiler[Gilgamesh] discuss the value of kingship with spoiler[Alexander the Great.]
In Fate/Stay Night, the gravitas that spoiler[Medusa] and spoiler[Cuchulain] are fighting spoiler[King Arthur] is completely lost. It might as well had been the original characters "Dark Purple Vixen" and "Brash Tron Guy" for the impact it had on the plot. The VN is a bit better in creating the sense of mystique around the Servants, but not to any amount that matters. To see the gulf in the sense of scale you don't have to look any farther then the two Lancers. spoiler[Diarmuid] is smalltime in comparison to goddamn spoiler[Cuchulain], but you sure as hell couldn't get that from watching. |
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SwerveCity
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This is one of the key problems of only adapting 1/3rd of a story, lots of the characterisation and story is removed. Believe me Lancer gets some amazing scenes in the 2 other routes and is a fan favorite, same with Rider(in fact these are my 2 favorite servants/characters in F/SN. Lancer, especially, is hilarious and awesome). Personally, I believe F/Z got by far the better anime but F/SN has the superior original material. F/SN, especially the final route, is much darker, more complex, better characterisation and more interesting philosophically than F/Z but unfortunately it was just too difficult for DEEN to adapt, especially with the amount of episodes and money they had. And it would be hard not to compare the F/SN anime to F/Z when it seems to have been released in bluray directly to cash in on F/Z success. |
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prime_pm
 Posts: 2341 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Another Fate review? Quick, let me mention Carnival Phantasm again.
Ah, there we go. |
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bosnic
 Posts: 17 |
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prime_pm Carnival Phantasm? Now the need to bring up Fate/hollow Ataraxia with Tsukihime is almost necessary (+Melty Blood and Kagetsu Tohya needs more love too). YES I CAN GO FULL FANBOY NOW.
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Seif
Posts: 457 |
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I've played the VN to completion more then once. While the characters certainly have far better characterization, WHO they are is still mostly a non-issue outside of their Nobel Phantasms. |
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prime_pm
Posts: 2341 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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I'm hoping that by mentioning them as many times as possible, someone will take notice and license them over. Any day now. |
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SwerveCity
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I disagree. F/SN spent a lot of time going on about how the characters were acting according to their legends. Caster's problems she held in life where dealt with as she became a servant and explained her tactics. Rider's backstory from life completely made her act the way she did as a servant. Same with Lancer and Berserker. Sure, F/Z might have went more on about kingship but there is no way that Diarmuid was more fleshed out than say spoiler[Medusa] when it comes down to how their legend makes them act. You could argue that the fact Shirou wasn't standing around going "OMG THATS HERAKLES" shows that they don't care about who it is but you have to remember that that did happen(Shirou stood still in shock when he learnt who Saber was) and they were generally fighting rather than have time to go 'OMG THATS HERAKLES' and lastly they only learnt who they were fighting at the end of the fight and would talk about strategies afterwards to deal with those servants. |
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Seif
Posts: 457 |
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[quote="SwerveCity"]
spoiler[Diarmuid] was absolutely more fleshed out then spoiler[Medusa]. Textdump backstory is not the same as character development. spoiler[Medusa's] entire role was a distant bodyguard for spoiler[Sakura] spoiler[Medea] was nothing more then a conniving villain. Neither felt like they where characters from legends. Neither developed or grew in the course of the story. The best you got was a LEGEND page on their stat screen or a infodump when they died. I love F/SN, but Zero said a lot more with a lot less. They could have been completely original characters and it would have had zero impact on the plot. Hell, the way their identities where shoehorned into their roles they where, for all intents and purposes, original characters. |
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