Forum - View topicPR: Japanese Government Establishes “Creative Industries Internationalization Committee” to Strength
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mdo7
 Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Well how come J-pop didn't have a big break like K-pop? Why didn't Japan take advantage of the Korean wave to showcase J-pop? J-pop is unique, but all pop are just copy of other pop music. Some of K-pop music do emulate J-pop, so if K-pop can emulate J-pop, then why can't J-pop do replicate K-pop? I don't see J-pop replcating K-pop being any different from I don't know Japan making a car or a video game console where these 2 originally first invented in the US or as I said K-pop using some J-pop style tune. If you watch or listen to Girls Generation song, Oh! and After School did cover several songs from Morning Musume. Those have a J-pop feel into it, so you see if K-pop can have a J-pop feel, then I don't see how J-pop replicating K-pop be any different. K-pop has cuteness too like J-pop, and I prefer high intensity dances in K-pop over the simple not really active dance found in J-pop. That's why I want J-pop dance to surpass K-pop dance, if Japan wants to earn the Cultural superpower title again like before South Korea earn that title currently, they have to make improvement on J-pop even if it mean AKB48 will have to do dancing choreography on the same level as Girls Generation, KARA, and After School or outdo them so Japan can earn the title of cultural superpower. Remember the dancing choreography in K-pop is the main reason why K-pop is popular around the world. If you really want Japan to have it's own hallyu and earning the title of cultural superpower again, some sacrifices has to be made that include taking idea from other country pop culture. So yes, I believe AKB48 dancing choreography may have to replicate K-pop dancing choreography if they want to outdo K-pop and to gain attention outside of Asia. My Asian history professor always told me this: Japan is always good at replicating stuff from outside country, but they add Japanese flavor to make it look good and unique. So it's possible J-pop could revamp itself but they could still add a flavor unique from K-pop, Japan is creative I'm sure they can think of a way to retain that Japanese taste. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14796 |
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What? Those kind of moves can be seen in family parties. Just normal dance moves. Next we'll call the Hula slutty. People can be so prudes sometimes.** 
(** Though I guess that's preferable than co-opting loli girls innocent moves for objects of adults arousal.)
Unfortunately, with Korea-Japan, it's always a competition. And it matters to either one when the point is to internationalize something, now that Japan recognizes that the "Galapagos Effect" can only be sustained for so long. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Ah, Enurtsol, glad to see you're joining us in this conversation. Yes, I read about Japan's Galapagos effect and yes that could spell doom for J-pop if Japan doesn't stop being close-minded when it comes to J-pop and the outside world. It seems Japan is not learning a thing or 2 from the Korean Wave. Given Japan's declining population (which RIAJ has acknowledged will hurt J-pop sales if the declining population continue to go down), and K-pop artists are dominating Oricon charts in Japan, and J-pop artists are probably feeling jealous that K-pop artists are getting more fame and huge popularity outside of Asia then J-pop artists (I mean Girls Generation are getting more fame and western media attention outside of Asia then AKB48, and Super Junior is doing world tour concerts while EXILE has never done concert outside of Japan). So as many J-pop fans and I said, J-pop will have to start being export outside of Japan in order for that genre to survive.
The popularity of K-pop and K-drama is the reason why Japan has lost it's cultural superpower status title, that title is now belong to South Korea. If Japan want that title back, export J-drama and J-pop outside of Asia. Last edited by mdo7 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14796 |
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How I see it, there's 3 main methods to internationalize something:
1. Get other people to want what you already have. Hey, if you're good in marketing your own stuff, ya can convince others to accept 'em. Japanese flip-phones were years ahead of global flip-phones tech, but for one reason or another, they couldn't internationalize it. Now after Apple and Samsung advanced the smartphone revolution, J-smartphones are losing their home turf. 2. Adapt yourself to the globe. Toyota has become global #1 doing this well. U.S. car companies are the ones suffering the Galapagos Effect here. 3. Combination of the previous two in varying degrees. Taking what you have while putting into consideration other people. Likely most companies employ this method. Hollywood is pretty good at this. Regardless, it's not all one way or the highway. Even that Galapagos Effect study group puts it, "the relative isolation of Japan from global standards and practices in some cases actually enriches the global experience. But at the same time this also introduces life-threatening issues for Japan and this isolation must be addressed through two-way dialog from inside and outside of Japan." |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 364 Location: Finland |
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I'm not personally a big fan of AKB48 but I don't see why that band in particular should change to make it more popular in the west. There are Japanese artists, who already would be easier to market in the west, including some who have tried without big success.
Utada Hikaru is a perfect example. She's fluent in English, has a strong voice and she had western collaborators on her both English language albums. Wikipedia claims Exodus sold 55,000 in the States and 1,074,393 in Japan. This Is the One also sold more records in Japan than in the USA. I personally like Exodus but I don't think it was marketed that well. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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@Ryo Hazuki: uh didn't you read Enurtsol post or even take notice K-pop group are getting more fame and popularity in the west then J-pop artists. People around the world are going to remember Girls Generation, Wonder Girls, Super Junior, BoA, and G. NA then AKB48, EXILE, Kat-Tun and Utada Hikaru in world music history. Around the world, K-pop is gaining popularity not in a way J-pop would've gotten. When was the last time EXILE perform a concert outside of Japan? Never!!! Super Junior is very lucky to do a world tour. That and with Japan's declining population, and K-pop artists topping Oricon chart in Japan. J-pop profit and genre is getting hurt by those 2 factors, that and J-pop artists are feeling "jealous" that K-pop artists are getting more attention in the west (and maybe more profits) then J-pop artists and that spell doom (and adding Japan's Galapago syndrome problem, this is not safe for Japan to keep J-pop exclusive in Japan), I think this is the right time for AKB48 to maybe revamp itself to appeal to international audience and not to make them look like they're behind their Korean counterpart (they could use K-pop group, After School as a model for the revamp):
-drop/tone down the schoolgirl look, they have to look more mature like K-pop counterpart. The schoolgirl look will not appeal to anyone outside of the otaku fandom and to international audience. -Revamp the dance, drop the cute dance and start emulating dance used in K-pop or outdo K-pop dance. -AKB48 may need to get Japanese-American/Japanese-British/Japanese-Australian singers that can sing in English and Japanese for any possible English-language album. AKB48 may have to do a Korean-language album for Korea and maybe a Chinese-language album for Taiwan in order for the group to gain good profit, so they may have to get Zanichi Korean/Japanese of Korean descent that can sing both in Japanese and Korean (and can speak fluent Korean in a interview with Korean press media), and a Japanese-Chinese singers who can sing in Chinese and Japanese (and can speak Chinese when being interviewed by Taiwan media press). Enurtsol, do you have any other suggestion that J-pop could do to replicate the same success of K-pop outside of Asia like for example having more J-pop MVs should be uploaded on Youtube? Should Japan create and produce J-pop groups that can rival 2NE1, BigBang, Miss A, Sistar, Girl's Day, Teen Top, B.A.P, etc...? @RagnaVII and Mr. Oshawott, thanks for your input and your thought. |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 364 Location: Finland |
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Please tell me what Utada Hikaru should have don then. -Speak perfect English check -Not pandering to otakus check -English language albums check (both which sold better in Japan) -K-pop dance routines not really If I had to blame either the lack of marketing or the lack of dancing, I'd choose the former. Your post looks like someone trying to retool a moe series into something else for western audience and ignoring titles, which could go well with proper marketing. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Kana Nishino is another J-pop artist that can speak English fluently from looking at her biography, yet she hasn't done any English-language album or have any interest of entering the US/western market. As a matter of fact, beside Hikaru Utada, Berryz Kobo and Perfume have now decide to expand to western market (probably because K-pop artists are topping J-pop artists in Japan). I never seen Namie Amuro, Miliyah Kato, or any other well-known J-pop artists wanting to expand to the west. Even Crystal Kay is now consider entering the Korean music market.
If Hikaru Utada feels like Japan can't be able to handle the J-pop genre due to the decline population (which could hurt profit and the J-pop genre is starting to die due to K-pop), and K-pop domination in Japan, and also K-pop artists are getting fame and popularity outside of Asia. She may have no choice but to do another English-language album to keep her relevent in the J-pop world (maybe she can collaborate with a American pop artist or a K-pop artist in her English language album) and to cash in on the K-pop popularity. She may have to do a Korean-language album and a Chinese language album if the Japanese music market can't really be sustained. As I said, K-pop artists are getting a lot of fame and popularity in Japan and outside of Asia then J-pop artists, Japan already lost it's cultural superpower status title (South Korea already has that title) when K-pop and K-drama gain popularity and Japan failed to export J-drama and J-pop outside of Asia, Japan could've cash in on the K-pop popularity by exporting J-pop but no, they didn't do that. What I'm trying to say is that mainstream people in the future when they study music history and talk about foreign music that broke the language barrier worldwide and gain popularity around the world, only K-pop like PSY, Girls Generation, Wonder Girls, Super Junior, 4minute, U-KISS, 2NE1, and BigBang will be remembered for playing a big role for K-pop to break the language barrier and how K-pop made many achievements in the world that J-pop couldn't. Those K-pop artists will be remembered in future music history textbook around the world when it comes to foreign pop music, and J-pop will never get the same spotlight like K-pop because Japan failed to export J-pop in mass number like K-pop did. Kids in the future will know K-pop as a mainstream music that took the world by storm, while J-pop will be left in the dark and forgotten by the mainstream. In other word, in the future, people are going to listen to Girls Generation over AKB48. I don't know if J-pop will have any future of replicating the same success outside of Asia like K-pop did and can gain the same level of popularity like K-pop did outside of Asia. It's not too late, Japan still can do it, if they don't J-pop is doom and K-pop will come out the top and J-pop artists will be forgotten all because of Japan's Galapagos syndrome and arrogance and not learning anything from the Hallyu. Taiwan and Hong Kong on the other hand could probably replicate K-pop success and apply it to their music (Cantopop and Taiwanese Pop) since both Taiwan and Hong Kong don't have Galapagos syndrome and don't have the same arrogance unlike Japan, so I do see maybe a "Taiwanese Wave" and a "Hong Kong Wave" in the future. |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 364 Location: Finland |
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Which would probably still sell more in Japan than anywhere else in the world. All BoA's records have also sold more in Japan than in South Korea or USA, including her one English language album. All KARA's Japanese albums have sold better than their Korean ones and Girl's Japanese album is their best selling album also. In conclusion, unless Utada Hikaru had a specific artistic reason to use Korean in her music, I doubt she would learn it just to conquer a smaller market. |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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I don't know if Utada next album could topped the Oricon chart because K-pop artists are even outdoing some of Japan's best J-pop artists (unless her next album can have some song collaboration with K-pop, and western pop artists that could give her better chance in Japan). Utada next album could probably have a better success in the US and Europe since she still have fans out there, but Japan I don't know since K-pop artists are still dominating Japan's Oricon chart. As I said, J-pop is facing a unknown future since K-pop is dominating the world and Japan's Galapagos syndrome is not getting J-pop anywhere beyond Japan and Asia. I just don't know and I just don't want J-pop being dead because of Japan not learning anything from the K-pop wave.
Also K-pop artists beside looking at Japan's market, several K-pop artists have expressed interest into breaking into the US and western music market (Wonder Girls did it first with Nobody on Billboard 100, Girls Generation TTS album, Twinkle made it on Billboard 200 at #126, and BigBang album, Alive did it at #150 on Billboard 200. Also several K-pop songs and album have topped Itunes charts for quite a while in the US and other western countries). Given K-pop is now getting more popular in Europe, there is a big chance that K-pop artists could get major successes over there. So Girls Generation, 2NE1, BigBang, and several other K-pop artists could focus on Europe particularly UK, when K-pop dominate UK, it'll be the US next. |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 364 Location: Finland |
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All Utada Hikaru's best selling albums are in Japanese and her least selling ones are those in English and with western collaboration. |
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Mr. Oshawott
 Posts: 6773 |
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Hmm, I had no idea that Hikaru Utada's English albums didn't sell that well...
I wonder why that's the case? |
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mdo7
Posts: 6284 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Yeah but those came out before K-pop took over Japan. She's on hiatus currently but if she release another album in Japan, it may not top the Oricon chart due to people in Japan being addicted and in loved with K-pop artists. If she was to release a future album at the same time another 5 K-pop artists/group release their Japanese album, K-pop artists will outdo Utada future album in term of Japanese people being hooked on K-pop and how K-pop music is overpowering J-pop. But I did some research, Utada's albums both Japanese and English do sell really well in Korea and Taiwan. So her future album could have a chance to survive in those 2 countries, it could sell well in the USA with good promotion and knowing she has her own Youtube channel, she can upload the music video of her song.
@Mr Oshawott: Well the album wasn't marketed that well and if Youtube had existed back in early 2000, her album could've sold better in the US. Other then that I'm not sure why. But her album did make it on the Billboard 200 it did sold better then some of our K-pop artists. Remember exposure help raise awareness and can play a role Last edited by mdo7 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 364 Location: Finland |
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Someone seems to exaggerate k-pop's domination in Japan. According to this chart, most singles sold in Japan in 2012 were by Japanese bands and artists, even if you ignore AKB48 and its "sister" groups:
http://www.tokyohive.com/2012/12/oricon-reveals-their-yearly-single-ranking-for-2012/ In album sales only three Korean bands charted on top 50: http://www.tokyohive.com/2012/12/oricon-reveals-their-yearly-album-ranking-for-2012/ |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF1peWXYUBc
And this would be the top selling single of the year, at nearly 2 million sold. This is what the Japanese people want, not Kpop which sounds about as generic of pop as it gets (which is the reason its successful around the world.. it lacks any identity of its own). |
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