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Answerman - Why Do Streaming Websites Still Use Flash?


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tophg



Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:30 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Hulu, Crunchyroll, Funimation, and most of the others still rely on Flash for PC support.

Actually FunimationNow streaming currently on the new UK site is HTML5 not Flash. Seems to be Brightcove's. I guess the US site will move over to it soon too.
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pikabot



Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:37 pm Reply with quote
Shay Guy wrote:
Does the copyright protection really make a difference? I mean, torrents of Netflix originals appear the day Netflix starts streaming them. And in general, you have to give the user the key to the encryption for them to be able to watch it in the first place.


No, it doesn't. But the people who insist on these technologies either don't understand that or don't care that it doesn't work and are just sticking to it in order to be an obstinate nuisance.
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Rychy



Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 110
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:42 pm Reply with quote
FUNimation uses HTML5, but not as the default player. I watch videos with Safari and I don't have Flash installed on my computer.

Every streaming site needs to ditch Flash, I don't care what their reasons are for keeping it ... it's that horrible. I've basically flipped from using Crunchyroll to FUNimation because I refuse to use it.
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Pidgeot18



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:51 pm Reply with quote
Shay Guy wrote:
Does the copyright protection really make a difference? I mean, torrents of Netflix originals appear the day Netflix starts streaming them. And in general, you have to give the user the key to the encryption for them to be able to watch it in the first place.


EME forces the decryption of content to happen in a black-box (aka, the CDM). I don't know the technical details of any of these CDMs, but as long as decryption takes place in software, it's not terribly hard to tease out the keys and decrypt manually. Which is why things like HDCP exist, to make decryption happen in a chip in your TV/monitor.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It was only in the last year or so that developers could consider it for streaming "sensitive" content. (By sensitive, I mean the sort of stuff people would want to rip and pirate.) Plain HTML5 streaming video is extremely simple and offers literally zero protection against any sort of unwanted ripping. Most websites code their own video player (which is a surprisingly involved process) but without additional toolkits and Apis, locking down the video is pretty much impossible. And most major media companies won't allow streaming without at least some rudimentary protection against that content getting ripped.
Clearly Flash's protections aren't really working either, given all the easily-available rips of CR/Funi/hulu/etc. streams out there. The subtitle and ad concerns are still valid, of course.

TheAncientOne wrote:
XChampion wrote:
Even a illegal streaming site I know can use a html5 player then why can't these million dollar companies do it.

The illegal streaming site doesn't have to worry about satisfying a licensor that they are doing something to try and protect the content licensed to them (because, of course, they've pirated it rather than licensing it).

In most cases, the pirate site isn't even streaming the video or coding the player, but rather embedding a player from the video sharing website that the video has been uploaded to.
And even if the bootleg streaming site is streaming the video themselves, they don't have to worry about subtitle playback issues, as they re-encode downloaded files to hardcode all the subtitles. Funny how no one in the pirating community complains about hardsubbed bootleg streams, yet they get up in arms at Funimation's hardsubbed streams. Usually while watching pirated versions of them, of course.
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SheRrIs





PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Rychy wrote:
Every streaming site needs to ditch Flash, I don't care what their reasons are for keeping it ... it's that horrible. I've basically flipped from using Crunchyroll to FUNimation because I refuse to use it.


Seriously?! I find Funi's streaming service the shitest of all the three (Crunchy, Daisuki, Funi). It's even worse than Daisuki's. I've never had any problems with streaming Crunchy's HD content. Funi, on the other hand, does all sorts of funny things (bad image-sound synchro, the video suddenly stopping, choppy playback) in every browser I used.
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Silver4000



Joined: 07 Aug 2015
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Sherris wrote:
Rychy wrote:
Every streaming site needs to ditch Flash, I don't care what their reasons are for keeping it ... it's that horrible. I've basically flipped from using Crunchyroll to FUNimation because I refuse to use it.


Seriously?! I find Funi's streaming service the shitest of all the three (Crunchy, Daisuki, Funi). It's even worse than Daisuki's. I've never had any problems with streaming Crunchy's HD content. Funi, on the other hand, does all sorts of funny things (bad image-sound synchro, the video suddenly stopping, choppy playback) in every browser I used.

^this

I just have to put the video on pause for five minutes, since my internet isn't the best, and then its the best streaming website I've ever seen. I would choose Crunchyroll over everything else.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Clearly Flash's protections aren't really working either, given all the easily-available rips of CR/Funi/hulu/etc. streams out there.


Sadly this is completely irrelevant. Licensing contracts require these licensees to make the best possible effort to stop, or limit piracy of their content... or something to that effect (as each licensor's contract varies somewhat).

"Best Possible Effort" doesn't necessarily mean they have to be effective. So if HTML5 DRM isn't available to them, they are forced to use Flash DRM, even if it isn't effective.

The discussion with licensors goes like this.

Licensor: "You must protect the content so that it can't be downloaded."
Licensee: "You know that doesn't really work right? Anything we try to do is just a waste of time and effort, and it places annoying restrictions on our users."
Licensor: "Either you protect it, or we don't license it to you."
Friendly junior guy at the licensor company, in a hushed voice: "We know it doesn't work, just show that you're making the effort, that's enough."

I have sat in on this discussion more than once.

There's also the "legal hope" aspect that you need to keep in mind. Licensors won't remove this requirement because it might actually be important sometime down the road if&when effective DRM becomes available for streaming video.

-t
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unready



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 400
Location: Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Utsuro no Hako wrote:
And let's not forget the part where anytime you wanted to watch a video, you'd be prompted to upgrade the player software, install a new codec, reboot your computer twice, and then try to remember where the hell the video you wanted to watch was.

Or a common variation of that:

You had version N installed. The web site said it required version N-1, therefore you had to "upgrade" or it wouldn't play.
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Sacto0562



Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:21 pm Reply with quote
In fact, in the very newest versions of Flash--especially the Flash player that comes with the Google Chrome web browser--the Flash player code automatically updates whenever Adobe issues a security fix. That's why if I have to run Flash, I run the one built into Chrome, because the Flash player component (pepflashplayer.dll) updates automatically, so security issues are at a minimum.
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NOGI48



Joined: 14 Feb 2016
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:33 pm Reply with quote
I LOVE Flash in fact I [expletive] hate HTML5. Does anybody know how to get rid of HTML5 because I have to do something every time to get flash. Realty annoying. Also flash for LIFE.
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 3331
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:48 pm Reply with quote
HTML5 does not play nice with any of my PCs (it's badly optimized on PC on both Chrome and FF), but it does work well on my phone and Playstation Vita.
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 1875
Location: USA (mid-south)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Rychy wrote:
FUNimation uses HTML5, but not as the default player. I watch videos with Safari and I don't have Flash installed on my computer.

Funimation has supported HTML 5 for mobile browsers and more recently for recent versions of Safari on versions of OS X. As tophg noted, the Funimation Now site for the UK is HTML5, and it is set to become so in May here in North America (with the launch of the new website).

Those viewing for free in the US, however, will still default to the Hulu (Flash) player for content, unless it is content they haven't placed on Hulu that they offer to non-subscribers.
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1834
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:04 pm Reply with quote
For those of us in Australia, animelab.com won me over working on chromium on Linux without requiring flash, while other sites would require flash and not state that or not state what version of flash was required.
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Darkabomination



Joined: 17 Mar 2015
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:11 pm Reply with quote
Unfortunately I can't use flash at all. Any site I've tried instantly crashes and won't let me do it, even though I've tried a ton of ways to optimize flash. It's really frustrating I can't watch Sailor Moon Crystal on Hulu.
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