Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - True Fans
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dandelion_rose
 Posts: 657 Location: Kuala Lumpur |
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Good work Ryan. Really I don't understand why some fans are in such denial about reverse importation. My guess is that they're just upset that they're not getting affordable BDs that they'd rather blame the companies and say that people are imagining things rather than recognize that market forces are not in their favour.
Like I said when someone as non-otaku as I am sees a pattern of reverse importation it's clear that it is a big issue. Also, the idea that a company has to wait until a risk or loss maker becomes 'justifiable' for elimination is absurd. If you are in business you don't subject your product to wild cards and wait until a risk for loss becomes a dangerous threat. You eliminate risks, big or small. |
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notazaku
 Posts: 135 |
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Everyone wants to save money at some point otaku included. I’ve imported a few anime releases from Japan and it is not something I’d want to do regularly due to the price. You probably won’t see me importing again anytime soon. Yeah you can justify or at least try to justify it for the one or two series that you love and must have now or whatever, but that gets very expensive very fast. With that in mind I have to think even hardcore otaku are not above looking to save money on cheaper releases from outside Japan for series they want on their shelves but don’t want to lose their shirts over. But hey maybe I’m wrong about that.
I am kind of curious about the buying habits of the average otaku in Japan though. How much do they spend on anime in a year? How many series do they buy on bluray/dvd in a year? What’s their income and how much of it is spent on anime? Also how many anime series do they want to own? Because the higher that number the more attractive a relatively cheap R1 release is going to be. Hell buying five anime series a year while expensive but doable under R1 prices would be impossible for a lot of people under Japanese prices. I mean those expensive releases can be very nice but they are very expensive. That’s the reality of the situation. |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5450 Location: Iscandar |
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Not to sound like a dick, but rankings are pretty much useless if you do not have concrete numbers. If you want to convince me that reverse importation is a big problem for Japanese companies, show me CONCRETE numbers that prove that N.A. releases have reduced Japanese releases sales by at least 10%. Let me save you time and tell you that I will not be convinced that reverse importation is a big problem simply by showing ranking from online retailers. |
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Angel M Cazares
Posts: 5450 Location: Iscandar |
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I am making a big deal out of this because I do not think it is very wise to argue that reverse importation is a big issue with mostly wild speculation and almost no concrete evidence. As far as getting affordable BD's, it is a non issue (if you are referring to the United States) as far as I can tell. Sentai and FUNi sell plenty of affordable BD's. And when BD's are not affordable, I gladly paid $135 for the three volumes of Madoka Magica and about $100 for the six volumes of Kurokami. [/b] |
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notazaku
Posts: 135 |
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I suppose you could ask how many of those who bought Sentai’s Infinite Stratos Blu-ray off Amazon Japan would have bought the Japanese release but didn’t and how many would have not bought it at all? The Amazon ranking doesn’t really tell us how many sales of the Japanese release were lost if any. I’m not saying reverse importation isn’t a real concern (I believe that it is to some degree) but I’m not sure those rankings say anything definitive about it one way or the other.
@angelmcazares Several series have had their bluray release delayed if we're even getting one at all. Whether reverse importation is real or not the consequences of it do seem to have an impact. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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There is some concrete evidence. Ryan just posted some. So did I. There is not conclusive evidence, but there is concrete evidence. You have yet to put forth any evidence that it is not an issue, you've merely complained that you don't like the evidence you've been shown. All evidence suggests its IS an issue, the only question is how much. You're not going to get the numbers. They don't exist because no one has numbers for the alternate reality "what if" scenarios. Even if you could get numbers for how many copies Amazon.jp sold of the R1 releases, we can't know how many people bought elsewhere or how many of them would have bought the JP release if there were no other options, no matter how long they waited. Yes, the JP anime market is aimed towards a specific kind of otaku. But they are NOT the only buyers. Other people buy it because that's all that's available and they will be willing to buy the cheaper releases depending on various factors such as price, convenience, and how long they have to wait. And different people have different tolerance limits for all of those things. Many shows do get cheaper releases down the road in Japan, just usually not as cheap as R1 releases. But ultimately, the actual numbers don't matter. The fact is, these are available on freaking Amazon. JP consumers don't have to go through the same kinds of inconveniences I do to import their releases, they can get them very easily. A Japanese company employee or CEO would be crazy NOT to see this as a problem. |
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Angel M Cazares
Posts: 5450 Location: Iscandar |
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Maybe I understand the word wrong, but to me CONCRETE EVIDENCE refers to seeing actual numbers (sales figures), and not just rankings. I have not presented any evidence to disprove the fears of reverse importation because I am not denying that it exists. I am just suggesting that I doubt it is that big of a deal. And you are right, unfortunately I do not have conclusive evidence to prove my point; but neither do the people arguing against me. WHICH MAKES THIS CONVERSATION POINTLESS.
Excuse me, how are numbers irrelevant in a discussion about sales figures? |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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While I think that reverse importation is a real problem, I find ir strange that the JPN companies insist that if there wasn't a cheaper alternative, that all the people who reverse-imported would've gone with thw Japanese release.
I have a feeling that they simply would not have bought it at all. You cannot force someone to buy an artificially marked up luxury by making it the only one available. |
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superdry
 Posts: 1309 |
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Except you're asking for pretty much the impossible unless you actually work at Amazon JP and can get access to numbers and crunch them. Ryan used Amazon JP as the example because it's an easy source to see that R1 releases are being sold and a lot of people buy from Amazon JP. You're taking this as fact, but in reality, it's still a theory that's backed up with the best source possible for consumers to talk about since we do know that a lot of what the Japanese companies have done to hamper R1 releases generally point to fears of reverse importation. If North America was in different blu-ray region, I presume reverse importation fears would be less. For example, Kaze France has licensed Fate/Zero and will be releasing a relatively cheap boxset in France which is Region B. Sure, there are ways around region-coding, but it's something that eases the mind of the japanese.
Except, we're not talking about sales figures directly, we're just talking about the effects of reverse importation since sales numbers of R1 imports, as I mentioned previously, is nearly impossible to obtain. What Hitokiri mentions is true and pretty damn crazy since a lot of Japanese otaku and consumers order their anime from Amazon. The fact that Amazon has R1 releases for sale is pretty scary to a Japanese company. There was an article a while back that a smaller Japanese shop had to stop importing R1 releases for sale. Revers importation fears? I think so. Now, Amazon can probably get away with it because they have so much clout. |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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When Amazon JP has it, its not even reverse importation so much anymore as much a super cheap release that people can buy instead, and the original creators see very little from it. It takes all the hassle out of importing if its just there on Amazon, at a very low price.
Is accommodating foreign audiences really worth the amount of money you can lose in the home market? Thats what these companies are now weighing with all of these American BD releases flooding Amazon at insanely low prices. |
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SereneChaos
 Posts: 384 Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA |
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Thanks! I'll definitely check those out when I get some more time. 
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Angel M Cazares
Posts: 5450 Location: Iscandar |
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I totally understand why Japanese companies would be worried. Wouldn't a plausible solution be for R1 distributors to high jack the price of BD releases to say, $120 MSRP for 11-13 episodes series and $200 MSRP for 22-24 episodes series? I want to think this could appease some of the fears of Japanese executives. And another thing, isn't there a disagreement (lawsuit?) between Aniplex and Amazon? If so, is this related to amazon.co.jp selling R1 BD releases? Last edited by Angel M Cazares on Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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superdry
Posts: 1309 |
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Well, that disagreement looks to be resolved for now since a lot of Aniplex JP titles can be ordered at Amazon. But, no, the theory behind the disagreement was wholesale pricing since Amazon has a lot clout. |
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notazaku
Posts: 135 |
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That's what we're seeing from Aniplex USA now, but I doubt Funi and Sentai would jack up their prices like that. What works for one company may not be right for another. Instead there have been delayed blurays and locked subtitles from Funi. So pick your poison. |
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Angel M Cazares
Posts: 5450 Location: Iscandar |
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How about this, what if instead of delaying BD's, Sentai and FUNi were to sell limited editions BD sets at Aniplex USA prices. They could sell them exclusively at the RightStuff and allow only customers with US and Canada addresses to order them. That could curtail (or end altogether) reverse importation. |
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