Forum - View topicANNCast - Aniplex Machina
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13580 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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I think an important factor that every company should consider is that just because a certain business practice works in your home country doesn't mean that it will work as well (that is, there is some success) in another.
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Felis
 Posts: 80 |
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@Dfens
I seriously doubt reverse importation would be a problem for all of their out-of-print properties though. Take for example the Rurouni Kenshin TV series, it's 95 episodes long and, to my knowledge, hasn't been remastered in HD yet, so it would only receive a DVD release. Reverse importation should only be a concern for Blu-ray releases, this would be a DVD release, so what is the problem re-releasing the Rurouni Kenshin TV series? You can't tell me to just import the Rurouni Kenshin TV series. I doubt their is any English subtitles or the Dub on the Japanese release of the TV series. You might say that, since it has already been released in the US, I could just buy a used copy. Too bad there are a TON of bootlegs of the Rurouni Kenshin TV series floating around on eBay and Amazon. I still think it is ridiculous that they would let some of their titles go out-of-print indefinitely. They are earning NOTHING in the US market by not having these titles available here. How are they NOT leaving money on the table when they aren't doing ANYTHING with the property in the US? I'm sure there are still plenty of people that want to buy Rurouni Kenshin, considering the amount of bootlegs floating around. There is something clearly wrong here when bootlegs are a fans only option of owning a show nowadays. |
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Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1754 |
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Felis, I don't think Aniplex is "leaving money on the table", but rather, making a limited print run to cater to the small amount of people (relative to their current and/or popular properties), would be far more costly, especially if they miscalculate their audience.
It's not as if Aniplex can sit down at their computer and burn you a copy of their master on a flimsy CD-R as if they were the college student down the hall. Aniplex, a victim of the premium "collector" market they helped to create in the U.S., has certain standards it has to maintain. There will be collector's cases, art books, postcards and other things of that nature. While the designs of these may already be in existence due to the Japanese release, they may need to modified as there are US logos and English descriptions that will be necessary for a North America release. If Aniplex makes a shoddy release by not including all the bells and whistles people have come to expect but yet charge the same, fans of that property will protest as to how unfair it is that another property received such great treatment while Kenshin, in comparison, suffered. if Aniplex decides to re-release Kenshin without all the perks and charges less for it, fans of current properties will protest that it's unfair they're paying a higher amount per episode than the Kenshin buyers. We've already established, both in this thread and the interview, that Aniplex is a very risk adverse company. One way they could get around this is take a Kickstarter type approach where Aniplex could set up a minimum amount of money it would take to re-release the set (accounting for the cost to reprint and any KS/payment commission fees) and have potential buyers pledge for the package of their choosing. The downside to this is that, when companies such as Digital Media Publishing engage in this practice, potential buyers complain that KS should not be for companies to exploit, but start-ups instead. So, as with the previous paragraph, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. When DMP ran their recent "Finder" Kickstarter, I was one of those people who thought the 60K they sought to raise seemed too high, even when assuming that the fee to relicense the property would cost a (IMO) exorbitant fee of 30K. It was explained to me that, just the reprinting fee alone for his small batch, would cost a minimum of $5K, and that's a basic print job, not including color artwork and the soft jacket covers many fans of DMP properties have come to expect. I have no idea how much Aniplex spends to produce each of their releases, but if something like an artbooks costs them 5K just to print, I'd guess they'd have to be very sure a property would sell like hot cakes to even take the chance on a re-release. |
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Felis
Posts: 80 |
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If Aniplex doesn't currently think it would be worthwhile for them to re-release out-of-print shows like Rurouni Kenshin, then all they have to do is allow another company to license them.
Where is the risk in allowing another company to license their titles that Aniplex themselves has no interest in releasing? They receive a license fee and sales royalties from the licensor, in other words, they are making money. If they choose to not allow their catalog titles to be licensed, and choose to not release them themselves, they are making nothing. How does licensing their catalog titles, that they have no interest in re-releasing, to other companies affect their brand or standards? I don't think it does at all. As a business owner, I understand maintaining your brand and high standards are important, but by doing nothing with properties like Rurouni Kenshin, they are losing potential sales to bootlegs on eBay and Amazon. Last edited by Felis on Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jayhosh
 Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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Man, you anime fans sure do have high standards for what makes a "good product." Like, do you also flip out when you see releases of literally every other non-anime series on Blu-ray and DVD? Because I don't see how a typical Blu-ray/DVD case and slipcover are so offensively bad to you guys. It's like you think those fancy "chipboard" artboxes are so heavenly. They're not worth the extra money though. I can't say the same for you people, but I've thought that every Funimation release I've bought has been perfectly acceptable in terms of quality. And a few of them even do come in those fancy boxes. Of course, from a technical standpoint I can see where there would be some complaints. After all, some people still watch subs, and apparently Funi isn't always the best in that regard. But you seem to be exclusively referring to their physical appearances. You guys just seem to expect way to much. I get that the anime industry thrives on endless deceptive and crappy "limited editions," and that you guys need your postcards and stickers with your Japanese cartoons, but come on. Immensely better shows such as Game of Thrones get really nice season box sets for the humble price of roughly 60 bucks, so I don't see why there should be such a difference here with shows that aren't even half as good most of the time. I know, I know. The Japanese entertainment industry is fundamentally different from ours, blah blah blah. Expensive prices are a part of Japanese culture, yeah yeah. I think I'm gonna go outside, this basement is getting pretty stuffy. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9875 Location: Virginia |
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@gloverrandal
That is an impressive list of on disk extras. I'm not sure if it is impressive enough to warrant five or six time the cost though. However we are talking about AoA and there North American releases. I have here a couple of their recent releases. First up Hanamonogatari. Cost from TRSI just under $50. Five episodes on two disks. Physical extras consist of a 24 page booklet, seven post cards and a "specially illustrated" cardstock slipcase. On disk extras consist of Textless OP and EDs an alternate episode 5 OP/ED, a collection of previews and a collection of commercials for the show. Next is The Garden of Sinners: recalled out summer. Again cost from TRSI is just about $50. Physical extras are a 24 page booklet, five post cards and a special illustrated cardstock slipcase. On disk extra is a Pre-show Reminder Video (about 1 1/4 minutes). The post cards are nice, but they are about the same quality of the advertising cards TRSI throws in to many shipments for free. Oh yes, both packages come with a certificate of authenticity from Aniplex. Fortunately I wanted both shows for the actual show. People complain of bare bones releases, but Funimation and Sentai are no more bare bones than this. |
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Dfens
Posts: 459 |
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Yes you can't really import a official English Subtitled or Dubbed copy of Rurouni Kenshin but you did mention Garden of Sinners which you can import.
Media Blasters originally licensed Rurouni Kenshin on VHS way back in the late 90's around 98-99? Then re-released it as DVD singles in 2000, and box sets in 2003 and 2005. They have long lost the license to the show and it's rights have reverted back to Aniplex. They tried airing it on Toonami in 2005 and it did so poorly that they didn't even finish airing it in it's entirety. It's a very long and old show that has lost it's popularity that it once had back in the day it was almost as big as say Attack on Titan. Even if they re-released it tomorrow who is still going to want to buy it when the average consumer of Anime wants the shiniest newest release? So I bet you Aniplex has crunched the numbers and said look it's not worth the time and effort to release it themselves in this day in age so they will hold on to the rights and sit on it, that's their right they own it. As for your argument just license it to someone else and make some money off it and sit back and collect a check. It doesn't work that way. Say a US Anime studio wants to license it, well unless they are willing to pay whatever price Aniplex is asking then no one will get the show. The Japanese are so stubborn that if they don't get their way and price they will let it rot in their vaults till the end of time. I'll bet they still want a huge amount for the license and not too many studios except maybe Discotec would actually want a stab at it. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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So, Dfens, your response to the issue about making available licensing on an old title that they themselves don't plan to do anything with, is that they won't do it because they're stubborn...
Do you really consider that a satisfactory answer? We'll turn down easy money because... we're stubborn? Doesn't this fly in the face of them doing everything they can to wring every last yen they can out of otaku in Japan, or us foreigners, too? I suspect the real reason is that it isn't worth their time. They just don't care. If it can't make enough gobs of money, then don't waste their time. That's why Bandai USA closed up shop: it wasn't because they weren't making money, it was because they weren't making *enough* money. Guys like Aniplex (Sony) only care about making lots of money, not about the Anime industry, and CERTAINLY not about any "experience". It's all widgets for them, and the particular widget they're dealing with in this case is "anime", and that's all. |
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Dfens
Posts: 459 |
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It's not just Aniplex many companies that own the rights to Anime series want a insane amount for the license of a show and if they don't get it they won't license it out. They don't care or in some cases just don't understand that such and such show won't sell enough units to justify paying whatever said amount they are asking for it.
Look at Gainax back in the day they missed their chance to sell The End of Evangelion Movie. They wanted by some estimates 1 million dollars and no one was wiling to pay it or couldn't afford that for just the rights alone. So Eva's popularity died down and for years it was in limbo. Manga Entertainment got it for a short while and by then it was too late they missed the window. I hope they got it for less than that million because the release was of such low quality and the wait so many years long it didn't do to well. You see they don't see it as making some money vs no money like you and me would. I know it's crazy but that is how they do things, over their they hold all the cards and dictate how the contracts go and at a moments notice they can fly off the handles and change their minds. So yes Aniplex doesn't see Kenshin making them piles of money if they did a re-release themselves so they aren't doing anything with it at this time or anytime soon for the matter. I'll say it again knowing Aniplex and how Kenshin to them is still a big property they would rather lock out licensees than cave in their demands for whatever dollar amount they want for it. And I bet you who ever even inquired about licensing it from them crunched the numbers and said it's not going to make enough on their return of investment to even bother getting a hold of it. For instance one of my personal favorites that Aniplex owns recently got licensed by Sentai and comes out in June. Kage Kara Mamoru was released way back in 2007 and pretty much is a old and forgotten title that would be a bomb if Aniplex released it themselves. It came out long ago and most people either forgot about it or never even heard of it. More than likely Sentai got the rights real cheap because even though I loved it and hope it does ok sales wise I don't see it doing too well. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9875 Location: Virginia |
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@Dfens
You point out that the current Japanese Bluray version of Garden of Sinners has subtitles and can be imported from Japan. My question is why AoA wouldn't do this as a service for their customers? It would be a completely no risk option. The sets have already been manufactured. Presumably they could get them at cost which would cover shipping and handling and provide a profit. They could even have them shipped directly from Japan with no stock held here. This would assist those who are unaware or are uncomfortable importing and provide ongoing availability for the Bluray set. If nothing else it would provide information on any ongoing market for the set. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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The price of a license is not something intrinsic to an anime. It varies by countries, by the perception the Japanese have of that country's economic potential. And why not, it varies also on account of how the authors/mangaka (that hold the ultimate decision in Japan) are fan or not fan of a certain type of country.
For decades most animes that were licensed all over the world were unknown in the US. Why is that ? You think Italy or France or Germany or Spain somehow spent much more than what american companies could offer the Japanese ? If you think so you're pretty deluded. Animes that were said to be non licensable in the US (think Rose of Versailles, early Pierrot magical girl animes etc...) all but become licensable a couple of years ago. You think that's because the US companies somehow paid several milions of $ to the Japanese ? Ha ha ha ha ha. What changed was the perception the Japanese had of the american market. When they came back down to earth in terms of what the market was really worth they priced their properties accordingly and they got their animes licensed. Gainax licensed everything Evangelion in Italy. Including the the films of the renewal edition. Not in the US. You think the Italians (who have a lot less money that some of the US juggernaut anime editors) paid milions for the license ? Ha ha ha ha. They got a normal price and it was possible to release everything dubbed. |
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Dfens
Posts: 459 |
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To be honest I have no idea why Aniplex just doesn't use Rightstuf as their retailer to sell the import copy of Garden of Sinners on Blu-Ray. They did in the past for the limited number of units they sold for the Limited Edition Import release a few years back.
The regular edition is the same number of discs, same content as the limited release and has the same English Subtitle track that can be turned on or off with the default as off when played. Only real difference is it's in a chipboard art box with 4 Blu-Ray cases and the artwork on the discs is plain like the DVD domestic release that is now out of print. Maybe it still sells well enough in Japan so at this time they don't won't to bring it over for a few more years for fears of reverse importation. They could have plans for a domestic release version some time in the future who really knows. Because when it came out almost 2 years ago the yen was stronger and it was over $450.00 dollars plus shipping and full retail. Now it's on sale at Amazon JP you can get it for 28,252 Yen or $238.00 plus shipping. But some retailers are still pricing it at or close to full MSRP. Knowing Aniplex it would still cost $300.00-$400.00 dollars even if they had import sets available for purchase on Rightstuf and people would still complain they are over charging what they should. Fans of this series have been known to be willing to import from the various online Japanese retailers if they really want to own it. Right now is the time to import it since it's at it's lowest I've seen it with the current exchange rates. |
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Covnam
 Posts: 3703 |
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Interesting. Industry shake-ups can be dangerous, but if everything winds up well, it will be interesting to see how this impacts foreign markets. At the very least I would hope that reverse importation would no longer hold any significance to restricting releases over here. |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
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The way I see it, AoA's plans seem to be to stream shows like Kenshin and others on services like Hulu. A few years ago streaming wasn't really bringing in enough money, but that's changed. Justin in a few of his Answerman columns has stated that streaming is bringing in very good money now. This means that there is little risk involved as opposed to actually printing discs up that they may not sell enough of. Also they don't have to deal with a company like say Funimation and approve every piece of art or extra involved. Therefore, less time and overhead on that part. So, because of streaming they are not really losing money by not re-releasing discs or selling a license to another company. The other thing they are doing is creating scarcity. They are basically saying "you want your Kenshin, R.O.D, Trust & Betrayal, Baccano, etc BDs? Then you better get them while you can." This is basically a tactic to force customers to rush out and buy. Then they fall back on the refrain which AoA supporters echo "you can always watch it streaming". Of course, this ignores the fact that I've already seen the show and now want to own it. Its about collecting it for me, and if rewatching it then in the best quality possible. Streaming is about consuming for me, its not about collecting. The other problem that may happen is that there will always be an emphasis on new shows creating the likelihood that older shows will disappear from streaming services as the services themselves want to promote what's new and hot. I think Justin might have said that there's actually a glut of content and some services maybe refusing some content. I can't really find the R.O.D OVA anywhere, does that mean its gone forever? I guess its a good thing that I bought it when I did. What I find ironic is that they complain about reverse importation (and I do think it is an issue), but AoA prices have resulted in some fans to basically rage buy all-region players and import from other countries. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5873 Location: Virginia, United States |
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That's the main problem with streaming (besides internet service). People think it is a library where the books never get thrown away, and that is not the case.
Old stuff will get taken off, and may never come back. This is not just an anime issue, but an issue for all TV and Movie shows. |
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