Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Is Animation Only For Kids In The US?
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Moroboshi-san
 Posts: 174 |
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Who do I believe, Japan's largest research institute or random guy in the internet? What a dilemma, what a dilemma... It is also good to be careful here. There's only little less than 4000 anime shows ever produced (not including OVAs, movies, specials, etc). If you hear somebody claiming he has watched thousands of shows you are about to catch a liar. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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The model is very different between Japan and the United States though. Anime series are intended to run for only one or two seasons and then end (unless it's a manga-adapted long runner). American animation is intended to run and keep going, as Troy McClure says it, "until the show becomes unprofitable." Live-action in the UK is much closer to the model that Japan uses, where TV series (not including iconic staples like Doctor Who and Top Gear) run for however long they're originally intended and end.
The thing is that you can't really tell what is going to be the highlight of the decade until the decade is long over, as by definition, these highlights, icons, and milestones are shows people will remember long afterwards. Will it be Attack on Titan? Puella Magi Madoka Magica? One Punch Man? My Hero Academia? Aikatsu? Kill la Kill? Love Live? Something that hasn't even aired yet? Same goes for any other medium, and movements too: No one really knew the visual style of 80's television would be those pastel-colored shapes flying around or CGI fluorescent neon-looking shapes and spinning stars until people stopped doing those, and no one really noticed the modernist art movement until postmodernism became popular. (Postmodernism was self-conscious during itsown time, but postmodernism isn't really a movement as much as it's a response to a previous movement.)
There are different kinds of fans too. When I was in college, some of my classmates would watch every Hollywood movie as they come out within the week that they come out. And I'm not exaggerating here. They would literally watch every single wide release movie made in the United States as soon as they could, regardless of genre, intended audience, and critical reception. They are undoubtedly at an otaku level obsession, but far from the kind that you describe. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6030 |
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The 1970's and 1990's Fantastic Four, 1967 Spider-Man, 1960's Marvel Super Heroes, and yes the 1990's Spider-Man series were all far worse than Agents Of S.M.A.S.H also AOS's already finished it's Final Season ages ago.
Yeah but they both have their flaws EMH 2nd season being inferior to the first and X-Men's occasionally janky animation (and the show having it's budget slashed in it's final season).
I would argue the old 1940's Superman cartoon was the "first" good superhero cartoon. That 88 cartoon just looks.....weird do wonder why I've never seen that one on TV though. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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The Fleischer Superman cartoons had really bad writing though, even in comparison to comics of its time.
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6030 |
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Can't argue that but really most of these adaptations had not too great writing we all know what Superfriends was like especially for Aquaman. |
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Kutsu
Posts: 570 |
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That's not necessarily true. I'm pretty sure Doraemon, Touch and Dragon Ball had already broken the mainstream in the 80s based on their tv ratings and the box office performances of their movies (at least for Doraemon and DB). Same thing for Astro Boy in the 60s with its 40% ratings, Sazae-san and Lupin III in the 70s, Pokemon, Slam Dunk and Conan in the 90s, One Piece and Pretty Cure in the 00s etc. Most of these franchises were recognised as having broken the mainstream almost instantly after their initial release in Japan, something which has become increasingly complicated for newer series. In fact, of all the shows you've listed, I'm not sure any has actually really broken the mainstream to the same extent as the shows I mentioned did in previous decades. At best I'd say a few of them managed to become semi-mainstream, but not much more. It's hardly on the same level as Slam Dunk popularizing basketball throughout Japan and being recognised for that. |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2443 Location: Germany |
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@leafy sea dragon My post did criticized the Fleischer scripts but the Golden Age comics themselves were capable of true greatness. The Dark Knight´s plot (2008) can be traced back to the first Joker story in Batman No.1 (1940). The very first years of Superman are THE basis for the New52 Superman (he ironically 100% dead last month, but what a death it was). Last month´s bestselling GN was Wonder Woman: Earth One (holy bisexual domination play, Batman) is based on the early 40s Wonder Woman.
The old comics are worth a read, especially The Spirit and Plastic Man. There would also be NO basis for anime without the Fleischer toons and obviously Disney. Just look no further than Tezuka for proof. Fantasia was further a gala event for adults and who can forget the classic Goofy shorts. Japan has to take the No.2 place in terms of world animation. (Korea is further catching up.) None can beat US pop culture! I also have every Imdb badge for all the Top Ten Lists from 1996 (really rough in places) to 2015 and every Oscar badge. I may beat all of your college mates combined... My public Imdb profile name is identical, so check me out. 6,650 ratings and counting  .
Last edited by residentgrigo on Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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What do you mean by challenge old shows? Yokai Watch is definitely a mainstream hit, as is Aikatsu and PriPara, Titan, Madoka, and plenty others. Splitting them into decades is a bit messy because One Piece, Naruto, Conan, and others are still popular so it's not as if the mainstream is going anywhere. And in cases like Pretty Cure and Pokemon the later series are separate and should count for the decade they premiered in. There's definitely no shortage of huge hits in Japan. One Piece is easily more popular these days than it was back when it first premiered. It didn't explode in popularity until Strong World.
Comiket alone disproves that study and gives us a bare minimum of 300,000 otaku. Any kind of self identifying surey is flawed from the start because it assumes everyone has the same definition, especially one that's over a decade-old which is a lifetime ago in a pop culture setting. Imagine doing a survey where people have to identify as a nerd. Everyone has their own definition for that. People who think nerds are virgins losers would say no, while people who think watching mainstream Hollywood superhero movies qualifies as being a nerd will say yes. Didn't your teacher ever tell you not to use Wikipedia as a source? -Stuart Smith |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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That's why I excluded long-runners adapted from manga. After that, there aren't any recent examples that weren't grandfathered in from an age where anime more closely followed the western scheme, like Sazae-san. Though maybe Pretty Cure is an exception. (And the UK television analogy I used has some exceptions too.) But the original point was that one reason there are so many anime series over a year is that most modern anime series are pretty short compared to their American counterparts. The difference has only gotten more stark as of late, with Japanese studios looking for the next big thing in anime (and so rapidly go from series to series) and American studios recognizing the potential shows have for late-streamers and being more hesitant to cancel a show after a season or two (Breaking Bad and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic are two examples of shows that became hits because of people watching them online after the first season).
I guess you're right--the Fleischer Superman cartoons were made during the Golden Age. I thought it was before that though, considering those cartoons soldified the image of Superman flying, whereas prior, he just jumped from place to place. I also have no idea how long those college classmates of mine had been watching every movie or how long they've continued to do so. I do know that movie-watching was a pretty dedicated hobby they took, considering how much they had to pay in movie tickets every month. (The town where I went to college has only a few movie theaters, and none of them have discounted hours, so they were paying full price for them all.) |
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Kutsu
Posts: 570 |
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In that list, as a mainstream show on par with shows from the past in their respective decades, I would only keep Yôkai Watch. The others as anime properties are semi-mainstream at most. I split them into decades to show the lack of renewal. I do not deny the existence of a strong anime mainstream culture in Japan, however I believe it is now almost exclusively driven by old properties which are nearly 2 decades old for the most recent ones. As for Pretty Cure and Pokemon, I count them as franchises, I don't seperate each individual series which would be far too easy. One Piece was already popular when it premiered. It was already the best selling series among Shônen Jump's line-up before Strong World and had broken the mainstream as an anime franchise in the early 00s. Strong World just transformed a mainstream franchise into a phenomenon. |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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I'll admit to being rather in the dark when it comes to American cartoons nowadays. Other than South Park and a few shows on Adult Swim, I don't see much of anything. Yet my childhood was full of cartoon goodness with Freakazoid, Dexter's Lab, Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and Pinky & The Brain along with various other titles from mid-to-late 90's Kids WB, NIckelodeon, and Cartoon Network. I've gone back and rewatched a decent portion of a few of these shows and other than some dated references, I still got a good amount of enjoyment from them. Was that mainly due to nostalgia? I wouldn't mind checking out current cartoons if they're along the same vein as shows I loved from my childhood, but I have no way of knowing what all is watchable nowadays. On the occasional channel surf where I come across currently airing cartoons, I watch for a few minutes to see if there's any magic there, but I've yet to find anything to follow.
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Moroboshi-san
Posts: 174 |
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By the same study there are about 350'000 manga otaku. Manga otaku is classified separately from anime otaku. |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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It all goes back to how you define Otaku, and how many people are willing to admit to being an Otaku. Given the nature of Japanese society, I do not expect a significant number of people to identify themselves as Otaku. It is very much a closet thing. And I would be pretty surprised if most "manga otaku" didn't watch some anime as well. This study is good for very little, except showing how useless it is. Anyway, Comiket has been bringing in over half a million for the last couple of years. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I think you HAVE to include "Attack on Titan", I'm not sure it will have "staying power" but it has definitely broken into a "mainstream hit". Considering that it's been used to advertise/promote TOTALLY UNRELATED items (like a car) and now had 2 big-budget(? for Japan) Live-Action movies, I think you're stretching to say its limited to "otaku" audience (even without the live action movies). Also, (like other "breakout hit" Evangelion) AoT has advertised razors: 
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Moroboshi-san
Posts: 174 |
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That's turnstile, not real people, there's maybe 200'000 of those. Nomura estimate seems to be extremely accurate as a matter of fact. |
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