Forum - View topicNEWS: ADV Films, Geneon USA's Distribution Deal Cancelled
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Yeah, and you've speculated and speculated and speculated and gone around and around in circles and there's nothing new to add to any of it. I don't enjoy locking threads, I was hoping you would say "well maybe I should settle down a little bit, maybe I'm taking this too far". I guess that was foolish of me.
Uhhh... OK?
Dude, you post so much that your separate responses would kill like half of a page. You post and post and post and wind up completely taking over the discussion until nothing but your theories and speculation are what's being discussed. That's what I have a problem with, that's why I asked you to at the very least consolidate what you're saying so we don't have a page with 10 starcade posts and 4 other people.
This thread is and has been going on a one-way ticket to "starcade goes on and on and on in spite of the fact that nobody has any answers for him" for the last like 4 pages. Also, it's "hush-hush" because these are privately held companies that don't owe you an explanation and obviously aren't ready to give you one yet. This seems to escape you. What you want to know isn't public information yet. I don't know why you can't just say "OK, I'll wait for further developments". Instead I guess you have to have someone to get mad at, so you're raving at me, because I'm the guy telling you to settle down and be patient.
Ah, the ol' "no, you" defense. I'm not "upset enough to throw down", I'm speaking to you as the forums administrator and trying to talk some sense into you. It isn't working, obviously.
I don't really even know how to respond to this. |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I actually have my own theory on this, which I tried to get across in one of the various threads on this subject over the last two or so weeks. I am not going to bring it up again due to a fanatically vocal member that was directly and bullheadedly opposed to it. But needless to say that ADV probably saw the writting on the wall. And that writting wasn't necessarily that they couldn't make money(<---I am not saying you are wrong on this, you very well may be right, but it could have been something else).
That definitely is a big issue. I guess I read it a bit different though, and I may be wrong on this. Does stopping in-house production mean stopping the release of anime? I read that as they would like to own the property, but stop the co-producing with the Japanese, but deed out all the work to someone else. If that is the case there might be very little difference in the product us consumers buy. Assuming they find someone to distribute it that is. Of course that is all conjecture.
This is a very, very good point. One which I was going to bring up before but I don't think I can put it any better than this. What does it mean, I don't know, but I would love to hear some explanations on this one. |
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starcade
Posts: 204 |
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No, I think that's pretty much right on the mark. This would seem an absolute win-win for ADV -- they pick up enough market share that, for the first time in ages, they might be seen as a true competitor to Funi, and that can't do anything but help ADV. Also, they get a bunch of material to add to their Anime Network thing. Then they saw what they were going to get and turned their nose at it and wondered what they were really getting into.
I think it's pretty clear that they're going to stop production by about the end of the year (so, at best, you might get some early-2008 -- of course, that's if they're around at all by then, and it doesn't sound like that's going to be the case). And I can't see them finding someone to distribute it, unless they think Funi has the money to go for it or something...
Of course, you can't ask Zac -- he's basically saying we shouldn't even ask things like that... |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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The staff that was initially laid off was marketing staff. Which the deal with ADV was supposed to have ADV take over [and which Dentsu and/or Geneon probably had in the works and thought was a sure thing when they layoffs occured]
Then the deal fell through. After they were laid off. fyi--- don't be hard on Zac...... he usually takes a pretty harsh stance against fansub/bootlegs in Answerman, and ANN is one of the places that tends to report most of the occurences when people get sued for copyright issues in Japan. I think we've pretty much hashed out all we're gonna hash out on fansubs- I know I have..... I've made my points, and they're sitting there for people to read, and to act as a response to whatever anyonelse posts. I think what's best to do is sit, and wait, check out the facts [looking at what Geneon has left to release, and the number of almost finished titles that could end up being finished if they manage to close things off well made me a lot calmer. Especially since ANN's news point did say that the production department won't be closing down till the end of the year- which unless things change, means they still have work to do till then..... which'll hopefully finish out current releases] And again, there have been many occurences when a company has liecnsed a title, and not released it, dropped it, and had it picked up by someonelse [Tactics for example]. It happens. And probably happens a lot behind the scenes, where we can't see [and really, shouldn't] I think it's good that some of us have woken up to the nature of the industry, and how small/fragile it really is. So now it's time to wait, continue supporting it, and to continue to spread the right, legitimate ways to enjoy anime [whether on Home Video/DVD, Libraries, TV or rental]. Things we should watch- ---- exactly what John Sirabella/Media Blasters's up to, given his comments at AoDVD [if he's up to anything, or just looking for good timing to announce unrelated licenses and cheer people up ala Tweeny Witches-which is smart marketing btw :)] ---- What Geneon has to say a month from now, or at any Cons they might attend [fyi- ex-employees might be contractually bound to keep quiet- it's a normal thing in any industry, and for good reasons]. ---- How many Geneon releases make it out in the next 3-4 weeks. ---- What Bandai Visual USA's distribution plans are, and when they'll announce a new distributor [if they do]. They have several new releases planned, and up for order at RightStuf and their DotAnime.us website, including some announced in the middle of all this like the Gunbuster Movies Boxset. Given how silent things have been, while it's evident things aren't good, it's possible that after the ADV deal fell through, somethingelse could be being worked on [and being kept secret so they don't have to deal with more of, well, this ^_^]. The fact that they haven't announced *anything* yet gives me a little more hope, as you think if they were completely and utterlydoomed, they'd say it mroe officially by now. Also, it's a good time to go get Geneon releases you've been meaning to get- even if they don't implode, it's good to buy more anime,and to show some support. I'm ordering the X Remix volumes I don't have myself. |
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xstylus
 Posts: 263 |
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John is one of the few industry big whigs who is rather loose lipped about the internal goings-on of the anime industry. However, I think he's just adding in his two cents from an insider's perspective. Most of John's comments in the forums were benign anyway. Replace "John Sirabella" with any random pseudonym and his comments blend right in with the crowd. The mere fact that John posted in the thread means squat. I guess that's why some industry folk are careful about even posting in a thread at all, if it means people jump to wrong conclusions. Not to bag on his company (which IIRC is doing well thanks to non-anime titles such as Zim and Voltron), but I seriously doubt he has the resources to partner up with Geneon. When Voltron exploded in popularity, they were devoting most of their resources to meet demand, which reduced the amount of attention they were able to give to their other titles. If my understanding of MB's abilities is accurate, a partnership with Geneon would only stretch MB further. It wouldn't be in their mutual interests in that case. The only morsel of interest in the whole notion is that MB seems closely affiliated with D-Rights lately, which shed themselves of their investment with Geneon. The Japanese are all about relationships, although I don't know if that means that they'd be more likely to strike a partnership with D-Rights by proxy through MB because of past relationships, or less likely because of their recent divestiture. (Hmm. I wonder how prevalent torrents of Voltron were prior to its DVD release...) |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Voltron is doing well because the people who want Voltron are people who want dvd's- they don't want torrents. They want a restored, complete DVD boxset, and tend to be older fans who can afford it [also, as Voltron wasn't released in it's entirety on home video before this, it's likely there wasn't much to torrent..... ]. Media Blasters has done several titles with D-Rights, and D-Right's US label appears on their packaging [ala Funimation and ADV's Gonzo releases, and Funi's Kodansha releases], such as IRIA the OVA and Gunparade March. Mabye John has something in the works with D-Rights, who had announced a partnership with Geneon for some titles last year [the press release didn't indicate which though], and might be looking for a new home for them..... http://www.d-rights.com/ [one can assume that Disgaea was part of that deal....... and Maria-Sama Ga Miteru's "wait, we didn't license it" event was. Here's hoping MB's YuriFan line gets Maria-Sama.......] Given the success of their YuriFan titles so far, and that they've licensed several after Kashimashi debuted, Maria-Sama would be an ideal license for them,.... Another note- also, Geneon Japan has licensed it's titles to companies other that Geneon USA before, much like Bandai Visual, Shueisha and Sunrise have licensed titles to companies other then their US counterparts... while a lot of their titles were handled by Geneon USA [moreso then those other companies domestic branches], titles such as Ah My Goddess TV, Nurse Witch Komugi, This Ugly Yet Beautiful World are examples of this..... http://www.geneon-ent.co.jp/rondorobe/contents_x/list/00000008/00000002.html And Rondo Robe's Pumpkin Scissors, Ramen Girl, and other titles have been licensed by non-Geneon companies. Though without a US Arm, we probably won't be seeing such a high percentage of their titles [flip through, and you can probaby count the unlicensed titles after page 2 on one hand] |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Thanks, but just to clarify, I'm harsh against the people who download everything, buy nothing and then act superior about it. Fansubs in particular are, I believe, becoming a larger issue, but I've never just out-and-out said "argh I hate fansubs". Also, ANN reports on people getting sued for anime copyright violations in Japan because it's newsworthy, not because we have some kind of anti-fansub agenda. |
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.hacker
Posts: 24 |
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As I look at this situation, none of this makes sense. I say that because Geneon/Pioneer has been selling anime since the 1980's. Now, we believe that the company has made such a huge mess of the situation that the only answer is to close business completely.
As some had mentioned earlier, including myself, we are not being told everything. This is evident when we thought the deal was sealed, but turned out not true. However, they lay off their staff on a proposal. That doesn't make sense. So, the answer is to close down a distributor/licensor that is responsible for what, about 30-40% of North America anime (guessing)? This is only my speculation; I could be completely wrong, but we know we have not been told everyting. I struggle to see a company to be having strong licensing power and activity, close down 6 months later. It doesn't add up. |
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xstylus
Posts: 263 |
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They may be closing up shop, but it hasn't been established that they're completely giving up on the US market. Quite simply, they can't. It's too lucrative (fansubs notwithstanding). The most likely situation is that they're going to adopt the Kadokawa business model. That adds up perfectly, if you ask me. The fact that Geneon/Pioneer has been around for a while means nothing. Just because you start as a leader doesn't mean you stay a leader. Geneon's recent titles hadn't been selling well. You can choose your favorite reason why, be it piracy, pricing, low popularity, whatever. Yeah, they have a library of classic titles that were popular in their heyday, but after a certain period of time sales die off, and stores won't stock them. Large back catalogs won't sustain a company if they're not in stores getting sold. Last edited by xstylus on Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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.hacker
Posts: 24 |
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Forgive me for asking, but what's the Kadokawa business model? |
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xstylus
Posts: 263 |
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If I understand correctly, US companies become subcontractors instead of licensors. All rights are retained by the Japanese company. Instead of the US companies going to the Japanese, the Japanese come to the US companies. I don't know how revenues are divvied up in these types of deals, but I expect that it favors Kadokawa over the US company. Examples of this have already been done many times. Take Haruhi for example. It is a Kadokawa product, but Bandai was subcontracted to handle production and distribution. Full Metal Panic FUMOFFU is the same thing. Funimation handled production and distribution, but it's a Kadokawa product, NOT a Funimation product. Kadokawa also tapped RightStuf/Nozomi to handle Third: Girl with the Blue Eye, so they seem to be checking out all of the US companies. I imagine they'll eventually start feeding future work to whichever company they were most satisfied with. Zac, please correct me if I'm off base on any of the above. |
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brightredglow
 Posts: 35 |
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The bold is my emphasis because Sony is more than just Advent Children as noted here: company#4843 Also, VizMedia is actually expanding their anime line as well as bringing over more live action movies such as Kamikaze Girls and The Taste of Tea. Manga may be their lifeblood, but they are keeping a lot of those manga-to-anime series in the "family" such as Death Note, Bleach, and NANA. I believe they also kept Eyeshield21 under their banner. So I wouldn't say that Viz is cutting back at all. If anything, they are increasing their catalogue as is appropriate for "media" company. Geneon (or maybe Dentsu), I think, just made some bad decisions of late and it came back to bite them. Hopefully, they can rectify them but in the process, harsh decisions will be made. That's just the way it goes. But still, I have to agree with Zac. The doom-and-gloom is premature. If it was as bad as some are noting here, then there would be no license announcements at all. Yet, they still keep coming. If it were really that bad, why is my local Suncoast and Best Buy still dedicating a huge section to anime? Yes, the industry is having to adjust to different market forces but that's the way it goes. Business, in general, is having to get lean so anime is not unique in this regard. DVD sales overall are dropping and again, anime is not singled out in this regard. Copyright (and piracy) issues are a problem and again, anime is affected. How the various companies respond to these dynamics will be interesting and, at some point, unavoidable. Still, while the industry may not be as robust as it was five years ago when everyone was on a high, it isn't dead either. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Licenses are usually acquired by bidding from the various distributors who want that title on their catalogue. The highest bidder gets the nod. Bids are suppose to be confidential but leaks do happen and counter bids are always forthcoming if the title is a must have and the distributor has the bottle, and the readies to go for it. If Geneon goes belly up, all those licenses that they have will become void and will naturally go back to whoever originating studio first produced it. They then could retender it for bidding by the surviving distributors, which is what I would expect, or just shelve it in their archive.
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HitokiriShadow
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Geneon often solicits titles way out ahead. Several titles were already solicited for next year before this news broke. But with all this, just because they have something scheduled for a certain date doesn't mean it will actually come out. It's not "interesting" and it doesn't mean anything about Geneon's fate.
Geneon outsources a lot already. Even if they had no in-house production, they could probably get someone else to do things while they over see. The real question is whether their contracts with the license holders allow for that, which only a couple of people inside Geneon would know. It sounds like contracts can be really, really specific and I'm guessing that kind of thing would be pre-determined and they couldn't switch mid-run approval (and probably a new contract) from the licensee. I suppose its also possible that their production people could work really hard and finish everything that's left and then when they all get layed off at the end of the year, all Geneon has to do is get someone to distribute the stuff. Of course, that's under the assumption that they are completely closing shop. It's still possible that they will become something similar to Kadokawa as well. If that was already the plan, then it may just be a matter of finding a new distributor. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Well thanks for the clarification. I'd like to state despite any past disagreement I had with you in the thread my position on this is exactly the same as yours. |
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