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REVIEW: .hack//SIGN DVD


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Key
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:29 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
I remember this anime being part of a trend of anime where everything is obscured--not just the central mystery and character motivations, but what their environments are like, why anyone behaves the way they do, the villains' actions, and sometimes even what goes on onscreen, often lacking logical progression. The Sci-Fi Channel's "Anime Unleashed" block was absolutely full of this sort of show. I remember it beginning with Banner of the Stars, Serial Experiments Lain, and Betterman, all of which were huge bores to me because I had zero investment in any of the characters, who spent all their time chatting with each other on topics without context. And I believe D.Gray-Man premiered as a manga around this time too--I read the beginning of that and felt much the same way: All of these series, .hack//SIGN included, try to draw in audiences not through compelling or sympathetic characters, but making everything ambiguous and hoping people would be curious enough to keep watching. It works for some people (it wouldn't have become a trend if it didn't), but not for me.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how you're justifying putting Banner of the Stars on that list. There was absolutely nothing ambiguous about that series and everyone who I've ever talked to who has adored that franchise (and many do!) does so at least partly because of the central characters and their interactions with each other. Jinto and Lafiel aren't one of the all-time-great anime couples for nothing.

While I also disagree with your inclusion of Lain on that list, I can at least understand why you would include it.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 8:32 am Reply with quote
I found Crest of the Stars to be pretty dull.

So that's two people you know of now who don't care for it!
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Dessa



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:17 pm Reply with quote
ZJCitrusGraffiti wrote:
By the way, .hack//SIGN was initially released in both regular individual DVDs (6 total) and Limited Edition versions(6 total) where L.E. #1-5 came with a DVD sleeve and a CD soundtrack(vol 5, I think, also came with a box to hold all CDs released), while vol 6 didn't come with an extra CD, but it did come with the Intermezzo & Unison episodes. Realizing Bandai was doing this early on, I purposely waited for and only bought the L.E.s. And I'm so glad I did, because I didn't know those episodes weren't going to be included in the complete collection. (But I soo wanted those special pins that came with it!) I say all this just to say that that this latest .hack//SIGN release isn't the first time these (rare?) episodes were domestically released. I didn't see any other post say anything similar. Sorry if I missed it.


LE 1 came with a box, t-shirt, demo disc for the first game, and OST 1.
LE 2 came with OST 2.
LE 3 came with the LIMINALITY 1/2 OST.
LE 4 came with the EXTRAS OST.
LE 5 came with a box for the 4 CDs.
LE 6 came with a bonus disc that had Unison only on it.

Intermezzo was on the main disc of volume 6, which was the same for both the LE and the standard edition. Intermezzo is also on the box set that came with the pins (my friend has it, I needed a replacement disc for disc 6 so bought the LE cheap on TRSI and gave him the bonus disc).

Unison is the only one that was never released outside the LE.
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Juno016



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:21 pm Reply with quote
.hack//SIGN is still one of my favorites to this very day, but it's very personal. I connected very, very deeply to the main character, Tsukasa, as the show was going on, and also felt deeply in need of a person like Subaru in my life. I felt pretty different from Tsukasa in terms of personality, but suffering due to being led around and astray with your wings clipped... Realistic or not, it spoke to me on such a personal level that I still get goosebumps when I go back to watch it (I do every 2-3 years or so, sometimes finishing it, sometimes not, due to timing of live events, usually). I kept up with .hack since, collected a lot of the more obscure stuff, and I play the current iteration, Guilty Dragon, on my phone here in Japan almost every day. I still await a continuation, however likely or unlikely that may become.

Really, though, .hack//SIGN was very characteristic of DEEN's works back in the day, and for a while afterward. Even .hack//Roots doesn't really get too much more "exciting" and consists mostly of talking players. However, it's far more of an actions series than SIGN and the games hit a high point for action in the series, especially since CC2 kinda upped the quality of their animation department to some top-notch stuff at that point. They're pretty famous right now for their dynamic Naruto Storm series' animation, too.

Also, on a side note, for those still thinking that Sword Art Online ripped off .hack//SIGN, I shall present a shocker that only a few people seem to know about SAO. SAO was originally written on a cell phone. It wasn't an official work when it was first presented to the public on the internet, and it even seriously included a sex scene between the main characters in the first book (one I didn't mind reading, despite my initial outcry at the fact it even existed). When was it published online? In 2003, just when .hack//SIGN was in production and being ready to air in Japan. They're more like parallel works, with .hack//SIGN being a commercial product with philosophical and mystery focuses, while SAO is an action romance fantasy. It's really hard to tell at this point because SAO's far more personal-fantasy, action-packed aspects are quite modern compared to .hack//SIGN's character-based dialog drama. Either way, even .hack//SIGN wasn't the first of its type, as multiple other pieces of media were picking up steam at the time with similar themes, like Welcome to the NHK, Lain, and even Digimon.
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Key
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
I found Crest of the Stars to be pretty dull.

So that's two people you know of now who don't care for it!

I wasn't talking about not liking it. I was talking about the complaint that it's a show where everything is obscured. You can certainly legitimately complain that it's dull or unengaging; some long stretches loaded with banal dialogue are the franchise's well-recognized major flaw, after all. However, even if you don't like the franchise, I don't see how one can justify complaints that it doesn't explain its setting quite thoroughly, doesn't delve into everyone's motivations (to the point of tedium in cases), or doesn't have a logical progression. Claiming any of those about Crest/Banner would be like trying to claim that Ikuhara series aren't loaded with symbolism.

And Juno016: What you're saying about SAO is actually pretty common knowledge. The comparisons/connections between it, SIGN, and Log Horizon will never go away because the three will always be linked by their common "trapped in a virtual game" elements. I will always find it interesting, though, that all three have dramatically different focuses despite that common theme.
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partially



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:41 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
The worst part of the show isn't that it's boring (though that's very true, it's put people in comas), but that it inspired other terrible "trapped in a MMORPG" anime like Log Horizon and Sword Art Online. This might be the worst subgenre of anime ever conceived.


I think .hack can hardly be given much credit for inspiring those shows. Given the huge time-lag between and the narrative dissimilarities. Moreso look at the explosive growth in MMOs in the late 00's for the reason LH and SAO came about.

And it is hardly an anime conceived subgenre, it has been a narrative subgenre since like the 70's. There are lots of novels out there based on similar concepts. It is just one that isn't adapted from literature very often. And one must remember that unlike .hack both LH and SAO were originally books.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:18 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Zac wrote:
So that's two people you know of now who don't care for it!

I wasn't talking about not liking it. I was talking about the complaint that it's a show where everything is obscured. You can certainly legitimately complain that it's dull or unengaging; some long stretches loaded with banal dialogue are the franchise's well-recognized major flaw, after all. However, even if you don't like the franchise, I don't see how one can justify complaints that it doesn't explain its setting quite thoroughly, doesn't delve into everyone's motivations (to the point of tedium in cases), or doesn't have a logical progression. Claiming any of those about Crest/Banner would be like trying to claim that Ikuhara series aren't loaded with symbolism.


If it's not meant to be ambiguous or esoteric, then perhaps it's due to the Sci-Fi Channel's editing of the episodes so there'd be 4 commercial breaks per half hour. I don't know much about opinions on the franchise and had never looked into it past that (besides that I heard about how a language was created specifically for the series), so this is the first I heard about Crest and Banner being straightforward in its storytelling. I remember having to pay VERY close attention to what everyone said and had to take notes, and look stuff up online on things I didn't understand, to figure out what was going on. The whole time, I felt like I stumbled onto the middle of things and had to desperately grasp for any context.

The first time I watched The Godfather, it was on TV and had commercial breaks that frequently too, and I found it unusually difficult to follow. I had a feeling a movie that popular would not require the viewer to mentally piece together missing story points through the dialogue, which is what I had to do for Crest (I had it mixed up with Banner, or maybe they showed them both one after the other, I'm not sure).

[Edit]: fixed your messed-up quotes. Errinundra. Wink
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:37 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
If it's not meant to be ambiguous or esoteric, then perhaps it's due to the Sci-Fi Channel's editing of the episodes so there'd be 4 commercial breaks per half hour. I don't know much about opinions on the franchise and had never looked into it past that (besides that I heard about how a language was created specifically for the series), so this is the first I heard about Crest and Banner being straightforward in its storytelling. I remember having to pay VERY close attention to what everyone said and had to take notes, and look stuff up online on things I didn't understand, to figure out what was going on. The whole time, I felt like I stumbled onto the middle of things and had to desperately grasp for any context.

Maybe adding in the commercial breaks does get in the way a lot, then. I have always watched it on DVD and even the first time found it remarkably easy to follow in that format. (And while the dub is poorly-acted, it doesn't muddle meaning.) Its world-building is very carefully and meticulously-done - more so than any other sci fi anime franchise short of possibly Legend of the Galactic Heroes, in fact - and done in a progressive fashion. It lays its characters out quite distinctly, too, and the actual plots are pretty simple; even the motives of enemies are usually pretty obvious, and there's almost no trickery or misdirection.

Barring the commercial breaks getting in the way of that, the only places I could see someone getting stuck up on are the cumbersomely long/complicated names of certain characters or how more named characters are introduced than you actually need to remember to be able to follow the series. But I wouldn't consider either to be a Tolkien-level issue.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:39 am Reply with quote
I see. I ought to watch Banner and [i]Crest[i] again sometime, this time without commercial breaks to see if it really makes that big a difference.

I don't remember much of what happened as it's been a long while, but I do remember what confused me, as they got annoying after some time: There were frequent jump cuts from one location to another that led to what sounded like the middle of a conversation, sometimes cutting off the previous conversation; jargon was thrown at me without informing me of what they meant, and sometimes I never did figure it out; events happened from out of nowhere with everyone expecting it; and episodes usually ended suddenly and cut straight to the fast-forward credits.

I decided to look at the TV Tropes article, and I recalled one such case near the beginning of their plot synopsis:

Quote:
After anxious deliberation Martine's president Rock Lin, Jinto's father, surrenders the planet without firing a shot. In exchange for their surrender Rock Lin is accepted into Abh society as a noble and his son is sent off to an Abh integration academy to learn the ways of the Abh.


In the Sci-Fi Channel cut, Jinto's father surrenders, and the episode immediately cut to what looked like a promotion. That is, it looked like the Abh had come by to attack the planet in order to promote its leader (which was also strange in that a leader should already be at the top of the chain).

I'm guessing that Sci-Fi had a habit of cutting out character motivations, as I remember the series having an "X happens, then Y happens, then Z happens" style without ever explaining how X led to Y and then to Z.
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Megiddo



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 6:01 pm Reply with quote
So Unison now has an official release? Did .hack//GIFT ever make it onto any of the releases? Probably more likely on one of the Legend of the Twilight releases? Hilarious to see completely stoic characters like Ginkan act so insane and all the bizarre animation/art choices used.

As far as SIGN goes, it was one of the earliest fansubs I watched, back before torrents when I used DC++ and probably viewed them with Windows Media Player (Or Real Player). I had already seen Noir, so I already had the feeling for this kind of show before, meandering, dialogue heavy, and a dynamite soundtrack. I haven't rewatched it since that time, but it was entertaining to the me from 12 years ago. It even got me to read the AI BUSTER novel though I never got into the games. I really enjoyed the short glimpses into 'reality' that we got, and the eventual, at times subtle, revelations that were revealed at some points. BT and Bear seemed like great friends to Tsukasa and I was genuinely interested in seeing him escape from The World. I don't think it would hold up near as much if I were to rewatch it now, but for its time, it was definitely worth the watch.
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Chiibi



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:00 pm Reply with quote
Kyjin wrote:
Chiibi wrote:


Oh does anyone remember what that animal thing was Tsukasa rode on and it slammed into the wall? I thought that was funny as hell as a kid. Anime hyper


Grunty! Bandai sold plushies of those for a while in the mid 2000s. The ones in the video game were hilarious; one was French!


OH THANK YOU!

I thought it started with a "g" but for some reason, I was thinking it was "grumby" or something idk. Anime hyper
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Dessa



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
So Unison now has an official release? Did .hack//GIFT ever make it onto any of the releases?


UNISON always had an official release, it was on the volume 6 LE (that you could've gotten for $6 up until a year or so ago on Right Stuf, so it's not like it was rare, even).

GIFT is on the 4th LIMINALITY DVD.

There is not a single piece of the "Project .hack" (also known as "Season 1") that has not been previously released in the US, other than the fragment game, and two of the side novels (Zero and Epitaph of Twilight). All 4 games, SIGN (including Intermezzo and UNISON), Liminality (including GIFT), Legend of the Twilight (anime and manga), both AI Buster novels, and the Another Birth novel were all released in the US.

".hack Conglomerate" (which I've heard the GU/Roots section of referred to as "Season 2" and the newer stuff as "Season 3"), on the other hand, has a very spotty release. Two of the games (3 if you count the mobile game, 4 if you count the card game), Returner, the Movie, the bullet novel, and I believe at least 1-2 of the manga have never left Japan.
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overlordrae



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:00 pm Reply with quote
I found the anime to be pretty dull, I watched it mostly to get the full picture as I played the games. Granted, my tastes are pretty different these days so maybe I should give it another shot.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:51 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
In the Sci-Fi Channel cut, Jinto's father surrenders, and the episode immediately cut to what looked like a promotion. That is, it looked like the Abh had come by to attack the planet in order to promote its leader (which was also strange in that a leader should already be at the top of the chain).

I'm guessing that Sci-Fi had a habit of cutting out character motivations, as I remember the series having an "X happens, then Y happens, then Z happens" style without ever explaining how X led to Y and then to Z.

Oh, wow. Yeah, you were watching something that had a very screwy editing job, then - almost certainly scenes carelessly cut (read: butchered) to allow for more commercials. I highly recommend watching it again sometime on DVD, and I promise you that the uncut version makes immensely more sense than that.

Now, the series being reviewed here, that they could have easily cut big swaths from to make room for more commercials and no one would have been confused in the slightest. Wink
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, thanks for letting me know. I will put Crest and Banner back on my list, now that I know it's not supposed to be so obtuse.

As for the Toonami airing of .hack//SIGN, I couldn't make much sense of it either, but that's a reason much more obvious to me: Because I was only able to watch episodes here and there as I hadn't returned home from school in most cases.
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