Forum - View topicNEWS: Gekidol Project Combining Theater, Anime, Idols to Launch in Spring
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||||
I see. Personally, I suspect certain people harbor grudges against me, though I think this particular discussion was a bit ways mild and too different of a topic to have warranted someone complaining about it. I'll respect your request all the same though, and I appreciate the clarification. @Sunny Milk: Large eyes have always been an aspect of anime, in part due to its inspired roots from Western animation, and also because of Japan's cultural perception of eyes being "windows to the soul" (becoming something of a tell-tale sign for good-hearted characters). I also don't view Lina or Usagi's physiques as childish either, more along the lines of slim and athletic, compared to the more cherubic appearance of the Gekidol character. Usually (speaking from an anatomical sense) the tell-tale signs of childhood development are a larger forehead to jaw ratio, shorter limbs, plumper and less-toned flesh, and a larger width to height ratio, which are all present in the Gekidol character. In any case, my larger point was that proportionally and physically speaking, the Gekidol character should look to even the most casual of viewers as considerably younger than Lina or Usagi. Although I'd like to say it's interesting that you would interpret the larger eyes and slimmer torsos as being more childish, I have to admit it seems a bit of a stretch, and your constantly adjusting stance really has me questioning your honesty/sincerity, which is a bit ways disappointing for the conversation overall I think. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Sunny milk
Posts: 695 |
|
|||||||
|
You just can't accept others' viewpoint, and think everyone wants to put so much effort into phrasing their posts like you. I have to admit, I might do that if English was my first language.
Anyways, no matter how smart or right you think you are, you can't change people's perception. And everything about that Gekidol idol screams more mature than Usagi at least. Also child looking characters are pretty much getting extinct from anime if anything, aside from a few token lolis here and there in harems. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||||
|
@Sunny Milk: I can accept others viewpoints if they stand to reason, seem legit/sincere, don't seem to be colored by personal bias, etc. It bothers me though, that you would specifically mention that I "think everyone wants to put so much effort into phrasing their posts" like me. I never said or suggested anything to that effect, and it gives me a negative impression of how your personal feelings may have affected this discussion. I'm not a grammar/spelling nazi and generally don't care how people phrase themselves (if the structure of my posts seems complex, it's because I personally like making them that way, not because I expect anyone else to), and it's impressive you communicate as well as you do given that English isn't your first language.
It honestly seems beyond the pale that someone might not consider the gekidol imagery to look pre-adolescent, and the handful of people I've shown so far have expressed as much. I can't account for your particular views, though I've the impression that you're either A. unfamiliar with older anime works to tell the difference, B. entrenched in modern works to the point of not being able to tell the difference, or C. in denial because of personal grievances in the discussion. I've discussed with enough people over the years to get a sense that it might be a mixture of all three, though I'm sure you have your own opinion of it, which I don't take issue with. In any case I appreciate the responses, there's nothing else I want to ask you. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Blanchimont
 Posts: 3461 Location: Finland |
|
|||||||
|
As far as the discussion of appearances go, I find the character designs pretty cute and endearing. Will have to check this out when it is released...
@Kikaioh
It's art. Art has always been stylized in countless ways across history. As for how it is perceived, the beauty of art has also always been in the Eye of the Beholder. You can't reasonably expect to constrain your view to a narrow definition of it and expect everyone to roll with it...
Every era has its own trends. Which tend to be pretty distinct. That is true also for art. As well as for things like fashion. Remember the high boots of the 70s? Or the hairstyles of the 80s? And as you said those living through an era tend not to take notice of it but rather judge other eras in comparison. For making the 'current' the new 'normal', is human nature. In good and bad. Some people just get stuck in particular eras. Are you really sure you should throw the first stone?...
I rather be diplomatic, but I'll say it frankly. Offering your personal prejudices with nothing to back it up doesn't add anything to the discussion at hand. We're discussing an article about an upcoming anime project and what to expect from it, and our impressions of first expressions of it like previews and images. If you don't like the designs and don't think this is something that interests you, just state so and leave it at that. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||||
But I haven't. My point isn't whether people can adjust their perception of a character design to a specific age range based on its style, my point is comparative history and actual human anatomy. Certainly you can filter your interpretation of art to perceive anything however you'd like (for example, interpreting that the Gekidol characters look like 70-year-old biddies, however surreal that sort of perception may seem), so there are viewpoints that fly in the face of history and reality itself that I'm just pointing out.
"Throwing the first stone" in the context of negative comparative stances of eras belies the fact that for practically every other entertainment medium (video games, movies, television, comics, literature, etc.) I don't see as substantial a spiritual change in the nature of said content as I've seen in anime. I'll be the first to stay that I personally think gaming, movies, tv and comics are as good as they've ever been, if not better, and what comparative changes I would note are often positive (for example, the growing popularity of comic book films in recent years, or the recent growth of indie gaming). Pointing out that anime has a recent trend for making female teenage characters look pre-adolescent is just another observation -- I take it negatively of course, but that doesn't at all mean that I view the entire current era negatively (I'm actually very happy with the direction Western entertainment has taken in recent years).
But you've done just the same: offering your personal "prejudices" regarding my posts with nothing to back it up (save your own personal opinion) in a way that doesn't add to the discussion at hand. Case in point, you haven't directly addressed the crux of the conversation, namely whether you personally view the character designs as childish or not, or whether they're a recent trend, which I've actually provided at least examples and 'evidence' for. Most everyone in the comments has been discussing points in reaction to the first post's issues with the youthful look of the character designs, so I find your claim about my discussion of the article a bit disingenuous when 95% of your own post is just a reaction to mine. At least the majority of my posts have actually been directly related to the designs featured in the article, in at least discussing how the character ages come across. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Blanchimont
Posts: 3461 Location: Finland |
|
|||||||
I don't. If it didn't come across in my previous post clearly enough, I just regard it as a particular style the animators are using...
Of course it's part of a recent trend. All styles tend to be contemporary. Visually, it reminds me a lot of their previous work, Fantasista Dolls. But that is true for all trends, being influenced by previous trends, or a reaction to those. I find it hard to believe you could create a lot in a vacuum...
Most users in this thread have not had a problem with those designs, while only one user has been re-iterating their argument against those posters 10+ times... Just a short note to conclude my reply, from one of your previous posts in this thread;
I think that is the crux of your problem. Culture changes over time, and the older generation will always have problems with it in regards to the younger one... |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||||
It's good to know your position, even if I'm baffled and in disagreeance with it.
That's an overstatement. Of the 9 people actually discussing this article, 3 have had an issue with the character designs. Keep in mind that my first comment in the thread was just stating agreeance with the initial poster --- all the other comments I've made were responses to people who directed comments towards me. I can't help that people keep talking to me.
Did you read my previous post? I already mentioned that regarding movies, books, video games, comics and television, I think the modern generation of works is just as good if not better than what came out in older generations. I particularly like the direction that Western works have taken in recent years. Anime, however, is the one medium that I feel has changed in ways that are negative to my previous experiences, becoming largely spiritually different from past generations of work that I enjoyed. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Blanchimont
Posts: 3461 Location: Finland |
|
|||||||
That is your personal perception. Those designs may not appeal to you, and you're welcome to state that. I don't think any of us have a problem with that. However, when you try to paint it, in broad strokes, as some sort of objective fact you think everyone should agree with, instead of what it actually is, a subjective one based on your own tastes, is it any wonder people tend to get a little defensive? Or at least that is how your posts come across in this thread... |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||||
I'm a bit weary to mention this, but I've studied human anatomy for a very long time (maybe two decades now), and so I'm keenly aware of physical differences in the age groups -- how muscle structures, posture, relative proportions, and features change with age, occupation, etc. Although you can certainly subjectively interpret images however you want, you can't objectively deny body proportions, muscular definition, height and limb-lengths; they're all there in the picture, which becomes even more clear when making actual image comparisons not just with older anime character designs, but with real people of different age groups. Now I understand that you can call it a 'style' where you're expected to perceive the characters as being a certain age, that's understandable --- but from a pure physicality standpoint, that style (whether intentional or not) is adopting many prominent features of preadolescents, and I can say that with objectivity. I'm not alone in this either. I've already had personal experiences in both my local anime club and online where people are confused about the seemingly young age of characters in certain anime these days: there was even an article some time back where a veteran manga artist, Maeda I think, expressed a perception that moe art seemed almost pedophilic because the characters looked so young (now before anyone makes a kneejerk reaction to that, I bring up the point only to demonstrate that even prolific artists in Japan feel that the art style makes female characters look child-like). Actually, even if you directly compare characters in modern series with more realistic human proportions against this newer prevailing style, the seeming age difference ought to be noticeable (since not all modern series adopt the same style as works like Gekidoll, Denki-Gai, etc.) I've been around the block long enough to have my own sense for what I perceive to be going on during online discussion. Maybe you don't quite see the childlike nature of the images now, but maybe in the future, with this discussion in the back of your mind, you will eventually. Or it's also possible that the style might become so ingrained and accepted in anime as specifically not intentionally portraying the characters as child-like that I'll have to change my perception and how I understand such works. But for now, I'll just say that in my experience (echoing Captn_Taylors comments) I do think it's intentional, and for now at least, I think you all might be too ingrained in the culture to notice. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6536 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||||||
|
While I commend people for arguing their opinions respectfully, I think that there isn't much more to be said on a topic which no longer has much reference to the original article.
Hence, I'm locking the thread. If you think you have anything useful to add to the thread please contact one of the mods. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group