Forum - View topicAnswerman - What Social Networks Are Used In Japan?
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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*facepalm* No, that is not a leap of logic, we can't know by a username where someone was born, their ethnicity or current residence. Period. We also do not know who owns said websites where (thru ads or a paywall) profit from stolen pictures. "But, but, it is in english" so is ANN and from one comment I read it is owned by a Canadian :p Also, while we are at it, I always thought it was kind of rich from many authors to condemn when people profit from their work when they themselves use someone else intellectual property in their pictures. Of course there are artists that only draw their own characters, but you have to be really good for said pictures to be upload to other websites (which post mostly fanart because they are popular due of the characters). |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Tone down on the arguments mangamuscle, Stuart Smith, and DerekL1963 before the thread veers off track.
EDIT: I should clarify that I'm not banning all discussion on the subject, but that heated arguments should be avoided, which some posts were edging toward. Last edited by Crisha on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13581 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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LINE or a LINE-based site was featured heavily in "Tsukigakirei", which itself had OK sales for an original anime.
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aereus
Posts: 574 |
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I've always found the argument that dirty foreigners are to blame for all piracy in Japan a pretty inane eyeroll comment. If you look at the metrics for torrent downloads of anime from sites like Nyaa, 60% of all IP traffic was from Japan. The best site for viewing magazine scans is a Japanese one. When I've been to Japan and visited stores like Book Off, it was consistently shoulder-to-shoulder people standing in front of shelves reading full volumes of manga without buying them. And of course the magazine leaks to be scanned in the first place can't all be done by foreign workers in the country right?
Being more topical: I'm sure some have left Pixiv over piracy and/or foreigner concerns, but another thing I heard concern about was policy changes by Pixiv where anything you post they reserve the rights to use it in marketing or other various purposes. This put off a number of users and indeed lead to them posting more regularly on Twitter. Although I'm not sure how it exactly stops reposting of images, as its easy to save images from Twitter as well. LINE is indeed their largest social network by far, and as others have mentioned, its essentially used as a texting service. Although I believe there is also the side angle of being able to support content creators, as they can release paid stamps and buying them they get a majority of the proceeds. |
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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The artists say it was foreigners and left. They didn't say it was for sure. Maybe they just used an excuse as a chance to jump ship to a preferred platform. They must, if they're saying it themselves, be a reason behind it, so let's look at that.
Also consider Japan is a small part of the world. Pixiv was mostly known in just Japan when it started, right? So when the site then pulls in a global audience some years later, a larger and larger percent of the userbase will be foreign? No? So even if 5% of all Japanese users repost without permission, and all global users repost at the SAME RATE, a large influx of foreigns will still have a palpable impact. The overall repost rate might be the exact same, but now they're ending up on many sites. When one person/site steals your art its a bit cute, but annoying. When various sites around the globe have your art, it is downright frustrating. It isn't how much reposting is going on per person, the scale becomes daunting and people opt out. Foreigners aren't a problem because we're dirty barbarians or anything. No one is saying that. The argument goes, there are simply too many coming in. While we like to think everyone that likes anime and manga are bilingual, they aren't. Language is still a barrier when resolving simple things like "please don't repost." Aren't the culprits of reposts often kids that don't know better? So Art is a cutthroat industry, is it not? Anime, just as much if not moreso. Pixiv was once a site where it was mostly Japanese art, and even over the years in my own art group use and discussion about pixiv went up. For a Pro, noticing changes and competition for people's attention is their job. |
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Crisha
Moderator
Posts: 4290 |
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Not to say that the artists are wrong for moving where they want, but I guess I fail to see how Twitter prevents foreigners from reposting unauthorized fanart.
I speak as someone who has over 1 Gig of Yuri!!! on Ice fanart saved on her computer. I don't repost without permission, but I do save my faves for my own personal enjoyment (and I include the creator's name/ID in the file name because I feel it's important to acknowledge who made it). Over the course of the year I've noticed more and more Japanese artists saving their work on Twitter. There are key Tumblr users who repost artwork but only do so with the artist's express permission (which they provide a link to). Not that I haven't seen reposting of unauthorized art or, even worse, people trying to make a buck off of other's art, like on Redbubble. Unfortunately, Google image search often results in images without links to the original artist. I've had to use a reverse image search multiple times before. I've seen wallpapers on conglomeration sites that are from fanart I recognize. There's even a Firefox theme that's based on a YOI fanart I recognize. I imagine a good portion are kids who don't know any better or think "fanart is free, who cares?" I know I didn't gain a respect for recognizing creators until I was older. As a young teen, I was constantly saving fanart to my computer without tying it to a creator, and I never had other peeps on the internet to tell me to give credit where its due. Nowadays, while the spread of art without credit is easier to do and unfortunately more rampant, there are also more communities and people speaking out against it or trying to set a better example. This is probably stupidly optimistic, but I'm hoping with a more interactive fandom and more chances to monetarily support creators (ko-fi, Patreon, etc.) that more awareness and respect can occur for supporting creators and giving credit where it's due. |
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1117 Location: Puget Sound |
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These things are rarely about facts... They're about perception and bias. I see this on Facebook all the time, where people get up in arms about copyright and their terms of service... And not only do they not grasp the difference between copyright (which the user retains) and licenses (which you grant to the service), they fail to grasp that their ISP, email provider, phone provider, etc... etc... almost always have the same clauses in their terms of service. |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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Literally right in the Twitter user agreement is that exact same clause. Twitter owns and reserves the right to repost, use for marketing, or embed your content anywhere they want, without paying you anything. It has the exact same purpose as the clause on Pixiv. So they can't be sued when someone shares or uses your content. That's literally how social media, in general, works. I can't think of any social media sharing site where this kind of theft wouldn't occur. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Just because piracy exists in Japan doesnt mean its not more of a problem elsewhere. Sad panda has a metric ton more uploads than any Japanese site. Looking up a few series, the Japanese sites have the same 3-5 doujinshi for them over and over while sad panda has hundreds, all conveniently catalogged and sorted by specific tags. And the uploaders on sad panda specifically say things like "didn't see this here, so I imported it and scanned it, enjoy!"
You have to be specifically know and follow an artist to see their stuff on Twitter. There's no convenient tags to browse to see all art of a subject. That alone is going to put off the lazy. Sure, the dedicated people can brute force Google translate their way onto Japanese only sites, and you can get around Japanese IP-only ban with a proxy, but its fewer people doing it, and sometimes thats enough. A common pattern I see is despite being able to buy stuff from Toranoana and other Japan only sites through a middleman service, the upload rate is pretty low. But the second its available on something like DLsite which westerners can easily buy from, a CG set or doujin gets ripped. I see a lot of artists stagger their release schedule so something is out on Melonbooks, Toranoana, and other sites for a few months before they put it on western-friendly sites like dlsite. Sometimes that inconvenience is all you need. |
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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Twitter doesn't have images attached to tags, aside from hashtags, which are not the exact same. Check out any booru or pixiv itself and compare how it sorts by tags to how twitter utilizes hashtags. So yes, copyright and licenses are different, as much as Hashtags and Tags are different. Simply put it, twitter is much more of a hassle to do the same thing Pixiv, a dedicated image site, does. The more hassle the less likely it will be their work stolen. If it is stolen it'll be a piece or two. On Pixiv it is far more likely someone will steal the GALLERY. Let us make the old anime argument: Are there MORE or FEWER illegal copies going around of anime due to subbers/pirates? There is! Undeniable. however without them there would be almost no foreign market at all. One could make the case piracy is good and those fleeing the onrush of foreigners are actually limiting their exposure!! But the idea remains that there are more foreigners and that artist's work is appearing in places without being contacted. Those creators are having the wrong reaction to a good problem. but to dismiss the issue as just bias kills the conversation. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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The real problem is the inane notion that once you publish a drawing (or some other media) on the internet you can somehow control where it is posted, people can't; corporations might and even they fail quite often, proof is the amount of manga and anime posted on the internet. So accusing foreigners (without even a shred of evidence) of wrong doing for a problem without a solution is just the old blaming game, solves nothing and down the line fuels a very dangerous narrative. |
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Compelled to Reply
 Posts: 358 |
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Understand most foreigners on Pixiv are Chinese or Korean, whose countries are hotbeds for piracy, so there is some truth to that argument. However, a Japanese artist might simply not want to deal with foreigners anywhere around the world because of mutual communication barriers over usage permission and commissions. Would you want to? Also, consider if you do R18. How would you feel if your work is splattered all over the internet. Even if you have a good anonymity, it might make you feel awkward.
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Please understand that an accusation without proof is nothing but slander. If there was at the very least a serious study then authors can't force the chinese government to crack down on said piracy (if the study indeed determines that the ones doing the piracy or profiting from it are chinese).
No one is saying they should do commissioned work for people you are not comfortable working with. But as have been said before, anywhere they post their work on the internet, they will be at risk of piracy.
I have in my pixiv gallery work from an unnamed author which feels awkward about the R18 pictures done in my behalf, the simple solution is that I will never reveal the identity, not even a pen name to the public. Some people might recognize the linework since such quality does no breed in a couple of years, but being recognized by a few does not mean anyone will recognize an author. |
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Meongantuk
 Posts: 354 |
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Then are you saying more than half of the industry people has no right to cry about piracy because they used/still drawing fanarts? You do that realize most japanese illustrators nowadays starts from "profiting from someone else IP", right? You do realize that the anime industry and doujin industry supports each other, right? Using someone else IP doesn't mean it lessen the artist's efforts. The're just borrowing characters, but still do most of the art process themself. Those reposter ignore their effort and most of the time didn't even link to the source, sometimes even CLAIM the art they stole. |
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