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SilverTalon01
Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2404
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:41 pm
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Lord Geo wrote: | Hunter x Hunter is also a great example, as while Madhouse's adaptation does go farther into the manga, Nippin Animation's adaptation before it carries with it a notably different mood & feel at points, even going as far as giving the York New arc theme songs that better match the darker & more serious feel, & the original bits added to the Hunter Exam early on are generally well regarded. |
Personally, I like the original Hunter x Hunter better if you compare the parts of the story that they cover. The newer version covering more of the story gives it a big advantage.
Connor Dino wrote: | Correct me if I'm wrong Fate fans, but the usage of "This Illusion" in the TV Unlimited Blade Works was not a homage to the Deen "Fate route" but a reference to the opening theme of the original visual novel? Deen'ss adaptation only using the song because they were, obviously, adapting the visual novel. |
You're correct. It isn't even the same version of the song as the UBW version is sung by Lisa.
I feel like Ufotable shunned the Deen version so hard that they remade the Fate series to start with Zero with how both of their FS/N route adaptations assume you have seen Zero first.
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MesousaGaby
Joined: 16 Oct 2018
Posts: 71
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:25 am
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Digimon Adventure's reboot is, for some reason, longer than the original.
Can someone explain why?
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varmintx
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Covington, KY
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:32 am
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I tried the Kino's Journey reboot from a few years ago. I hated it so much I have basically stopped watching anime altogether.
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Fakerman
Joined: 05 Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Location: Mac Anu
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:27 pm
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MesousaGaby wrote: | Digimon Adventure's reboot is, for some reason, longer than the original.
Can someone explain why? |
Because it is a completely different """story""" filled with pseudo-fillers.
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Piglet the Grate
Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 575
Location: North America
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:32 pm
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Redbeard 101 wrote: | ....If the original material was never finished at the time of the original show's airing and now the source material can be adapted fully.... Regardless if the previous animated version can stand on its own or not....
....The other reason for a reboot in my mind is if the original airing failed to do the source material justice.... |
Hmmm..., seems the obvious example (despite the gripes of the nit-pickers) of this being needed and done well was Fruits Basket (2019/The Final). It came through that the key persons working on the project loved the story and put their best effort forth, rather than it being a lazy and cynical attempt to "get money" by making a cheap remake of something already done (as Hollywood sadly does).
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KlarkKentThe3rd
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 108
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:03 pm
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I sure don't post here at all...
My stance on reboots is singular, and will never change. It is a case-by-case basis, always. Old adaptations are not bad. New adaptations are not good. Anything can be good or bad, regardless of the decade it hails from. Good writing and good direction are timeless. Good art is timeless. Good colour usage is timeless. Good editing is timeless. Good music is timeless.
Unless one only cares about watching "the hot new thing" and afraid of the dreaded D word which is "dated".
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Top Gun
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4601
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:09 pm
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Temujin25S wrote: | There's a bigger issue thats not being addressed, or maybe its not something anime consumers just never pondered on regarding this topic, without these reboots newer audience wouldn't give the material a chance or be aware despite older fans touting how it great the particularly series is. Why is that, there can be various reasons one common denominator it's old meaning dated visuals especially in eyes of casuals even among the hardcore (there's portion of fanbase that don't watch older anime of certain era's, of course depending the individual though can be similar at times may have different cut off points) keep in mind I'm not judging anyone's preference visuals part of anime DNA especially now. It's just that it's a key component why anime reboots are clamored for even with high acclaimed adaptation existing, (there are few anime's which are exception would met with distaste), majority of the time older fans also seem to be hoping for new adaptation to draw newer audience's bring a new hype and acknowledgement of the show. This something I've just observed and witnessed. |
Yeah, I tried to tiptoe around that point, but you're right, that is a common issue. I've never had anything but disdain for people who refuse to watch a given work because it "looks too old." Anime as a medium has a history stretching back decades, and in my opinion if you want to call yourself a general fan of it, you need to at least be open to learning about that history and how it influenced what's being created today. I started my serious anime fandom in the mid-00s, but several of my favorite series were made before that time, and I've enjoyed multiple works made before I was even born.
What I've always found strange is that this sentiment seems to be much more pronounced in anime fandom than it is in other media. Just look at gaming: retro content is huge. There are literally hundreds of pixel-styled indie games on every digital storefront. People clamor for Nintendo to add more of their back catalog to the Switch Online service, and the XBox's backwards compatibility (and Sony's lack thereof) is considered a major talking point. There are entire networks/streaming services dedicated to classic films and TV shows, and popular blockbusters of the past maintain an evergreen fandom: I mean one of the most profitable media franchises of all time started with a movie released in 1977, and just picture how many millions of nerds would lose their crap if Disney announced an official Original Trilogy theatrical version restoration. And obviously classic works of literature are always sought out by bibliophiles. So what is it about anime fandom that makes so many people utterly ignore anything that was released more than a handful of years ago? It's utterly bizarre.
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Hiroki not Takuya
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2529
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:53 pm
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KlarkKentThe3rd wrote: | I sure don't post here at all... It is a case-by-case basis, always....Good writing and good direction are timeless. Good art is timeless. Good colour usage is timeless. Good editing is timeless. Good music is timeless.... |
To the first, you can say that again (WOW)...To the second: Hear Hear!! You are so right. I always try to give any work "a chance" and judge based on the merits as you mention. Sadly, too many can't separate their reactions from one incarnation to the next...
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KlarkKentThe3rd
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 108
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:12 am
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Might as well mention I owe some thanks to Anime World Order for teaching me this: most anime fans in any given decade are teenagers who of course are looking for new shiny things, and get out of anime after a few years. Most fans are tourists, and that is neither good nor bad, just how things are.
There are of course "true fans", and those tend to............ drum roll........ claim that only the older stuff is truly great. Which is just as dumb, but that's not going anywhere either.
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AmpersandsUnited
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:13 am
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Piglet the Grate wrote: | Hmmm..., seems the obvious example (despite the gripes of the nit-pickers) of this being needed and done well was Fruits Basket (2019/The Final). It came through that the key persons working on the project loved the story and put their best effort forth, rather than it being a lazy and cynical attempt to "get money" by making a cheap remake of something already done (as Hollywood sadly does). |
That's probably because most series are creator-owned rather than corporation owned. There's no faceless executive board to just push out a new show and movie iteration of Ninja Turtles or Scooby Doo or Transformers or Marvel/DC property every few years to always have it on television outside a few really old series like Atom, Gegege no Kitaro, and Cyborg 009 which get the occasional modern show every few decades it seems.
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Piglet the Grate
Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 575
Location: North America
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:52 am
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Top Gun wrote: | I've never had anything but disdain for people who refuse to watch a given work because it "looks too old." Anime as a medium has a history stretching back decades, and in my opinion if you want to call yourself a general fan of it, you need to at least be open to learning about that history and how it influenced what's being created today. I started my serious anime fandom in the mid-00s, but several of my favorite series were made before that time, and I've enjoyed multiple works made before I was even born. |
The funny (but not ha ha funny) thing is that old anime film would be easier to restore than "regular" films with photographic images, particularly if the the original drawings are around for reference. For the period from sometime in the 1970s to the 1990s, if the original animation stills exist, high resolution digital photography of them could be used in a restoration, while not much can be done when the original images are NTSC video.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5357
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Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:42 pm
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I've never watched Yozakura Quartet, going by footage I've seen over the years on YouTube and the vast clips it has on Sakugabooru, I get the picture the animation showcase is the draw.
John Huston once said
Quote: | There is a willful lemming-like persistence in remaking past successes time after time. They can't make them as good as they are in our memories, but they go on doing them and each time it's a disaster. Why don't we remake some of our bad pictures--I'd love another shot at The Roots of Heaven (1958)--and make them good? |
Maybe that's why remakes with Anime usually succeed, if of cause you replace bad with incomplete or unfaithful(when doing so makes it worse). And they rarely remake original Anime, but instead adaptations.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5987
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:49 am
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Top Gun wrote: |
See I hate the whole "this thing is old so we must make a new version of it and get it in people's faces because the profits must flow" mentality. Not everything has to be monetized and franchised indefinitely. The original series is still there, streaming on HiDive. |
While you do have a reasonable argument depending on how old the content is in question you're going to have a tough time introducing a newer younger generation to that stuff. It's particularly even more of a problem with animation which might have dated art (be outright awful) or tacky aspects (Chocolove's big black/white lips).
Top Gun wrote: | The home video release--okay let's not talk about that. |
What was so bad about it?
Top Gun wrote: |
I'd imagine there are equivalent options in Japan too. If you want to introduce the series to people, then point them at what already exists. You don't see this mentality with classic film works: "Hey, not enough people are buying Citizen Kane or Casablanca, |
Might be because hardly anyone talks about those movies nowadays aside from the twist in Kane.
Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5987
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:00 am
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Top Gun wrote: | I mean one of the most profitable media franchises of all time started with a movie released in 1977, and just picture how many millions of nerds would lose their crap if Disney announced an official Original Trilogy theatrical version restoration. |
Are we talking like the 97 Special Editions that people still get pissed about today or just a simple touch up?
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Temujin25S
Joined: 06 Jul 2021
Posts: 5
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:17 am
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Top Gun wrote: |
Temujin25S wrote: | There's a bigger issue thats not being addressed, or maybe its not something anime consumers just never pondered on regarding this topic, without these reboots newer audience wouldn't give the material a chance or be aware despite older fans touting how it great the particularly series is. Why is that, there can be various reasons one common denominator it's old meaning dated visuals especially in eyes of casuals even among the hardcore (there's portion of fanbase that don't watch older anime of certain era's, of course depending the individual though can be similar at times may have different cut off points) keep in mind I'm not judging anyone's preference visuals part of anime DNA especially now. It's just that it's a key component why anime reboots are clamored for even with high acclaimed adaptation existing, (there are few anime's which are exception would met with distaste), majority of the time older fans also seem to be hoping for new adaptation to draw newer audience's bring a new hype and acknowledgement of the show. This something I've just observed and witnessed. |
Yeah, I tried to tiptoe around that point, but you're right, that is a common issue. I've never had anything but disdain for people who refuse to watch a given work because it "looks too old." Anime as a medium has a history stretching back decades, and in my opinion if you want to call yourself a general fan of it, you need to at least be open to learning about that history and how it influenced what's being created today. I started my serious anime fandom in the mid-00s, but several of my favorite series were made before that time, and I've enjoyed multiple works made before I was even born.
What I've always found strange is that this sentiment seems to be much more pronounced in anime fandom than it is in other media. Just look at gaming: retro content is huge. There are literally hundreds of pixel-styled indie games on every digital storefront. People clamor for Nintendo to add more of their back catalog to the Switch Online service, and the XBox's backwards compatibility (and Sony's lack thereof) is considered a major talking point. There are entire networks/streaming services dedicated to classic films and TV shows, and popular blockbusters of the past maintain an evergreen fandom: I mean one of the most profitable media franchises of all time started with a movie released in 1977, and just picture how many millions of nerds would lose their crap if Disney announced an official Original Trilogy theatrical version restoration. And obviously classic works of literature are always sought out by bibliophiles. So what is it about anime fandom that makes so many people utterly ignore anything that was released more than a handful of years ago? It's utterly bizarre. |
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I wholeheartedly agree its the biggest detriment to the fandom in general, classics are not respected enough or given a chance based on visuals and its only medium like you said have to this silly mindset,Look how much heat and backlash Disney face with their live action remakes of their animated canon, parents and fans insist children watch originals before the remakes. Heck watching older era content can help the burn out phase newer fans face who eventually stop watching anime as whole. Hopefully things change.
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