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Tony K.
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 11311
Location: Frisco, TX
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:00 pm
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Murasakisuishou wrote: | Also, while I'm on the subject of animation not looking like Motoko, has anyone else noticed that the art style in 2nd GIG seems to switch between episodes? It's been a while since I've seen it, so I can't exactly give any examples, but I remember the art being pointier and less 'realistic' in a few episodes when compared to others. |
The art will vary from episode to episode as a lot of them had a sort of rotating joint effort of different Art Directors, not to mention 2nd GIG had a set of new character designers, so it wouldn't be surprising if you saw a little bit of variation within the characters and such. They talk about it in the extras of 2nd GIG Vol.2 (an interview with character designers, Takayuki Goto and Tetsuya Nishio).
And speaking of the extras, has anyone seen the interview with Kamiyama on the last volume of SAC? I felt it was a great analysis on Togusa putting him, Aoi, and Aramaki on a horizontal axis. Basically, his interpretation explained that Togusa was in the middle of the line, having established himself with an individual sense of justice, where Aoi was the younger and naive version of Togusa who was implusive and hadn't quite found his footing in life yet. And that someday when Togusa reached Aramki's age, he'd be in the same position in terms of personal integrity, demeanor, and so on. I found that to be a very cool way of characterizing all three of them!
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Thanatos01s2
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 231
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:08 pm
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Tony K. wrote: | And speaking of the extras, has anyone seen the interview with Kamiyama on the last volume of SAC? I felt it was a great analysis on Togusa putting him, Aoi, and Aramaki on a horizontal axis. Basically, his interpretation explained that Togusa was in the middle of the line, having established himself with an individual sense of justice, where Aoi was the younger and naive version of Togusa who was implusive and hadn't quite found his footing in life yet. And that someday when Togusa reached Aramki's age, he'd be in the same position in terms of personal integrity, demeanor, and so on. I found that to be a very cool way of characterizing all three of them! |
Yeah, I didn't see this but I have always had that feeling about Togusa, I was looking over a general description of SSS, and it said that togusa was the team leader of S-9.
AS for the different character artists I didn;t know that but maybe that describes the reason the Major is clothed in the 2nd gig. Personally I am glad that she is clothed and not wearing a thong anymore. The reason I say that is that it seemed sort of ridiculous to have her walk aroung in that, I like her outfit much better in the 2nd gig.
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XxXserenityXxX
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2
Location: California, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:39 pm
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Gits is one of my favortie anime. I never get tired of watching reruns of the series on cable!
In my opinion this series has it all! It has the action, great animation, and the music is great!!!
On that note, I love the Rise OP!!! Way better than the Inner Universe OP!
In the Rise OP, the music and the animation was perfect. It was like the song and the animation were meant to be together. It was just a perfect match.
I hope they continue the series...but I doubt that would happen.
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Murasakisuishou
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 1469
Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:54 pm
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Tony K. wrote: | The art will vary from episode to episode as a lot of them had a sort of rotating joint effort of different Art Directors, not to mention 2nd GIG had a set of new character designers, so it wouldn't be surprising if you saw a little bit of variation within the characters and such. They talk about it in the extras of 2nd GIG Vol.2 (an interview with character designers, Takayuki Goto and Tetsuya Nishio).
And speaking of the extras, has anyone seen the interview with Kamiyama on the last volume of SAC? I felt it was a great analysis on Togusa putting him, Aoi, and Aramaki on a horizontal axis. Basically, his interpretation explained that Togusa was in the middle of the line, having established himself with an individual sense of justice, where Aoi was the younger and naive version of Togusa who was implusive and hadn't quite found his footing in life yet. And that someday when Togusa reached Aramki's age, he'd be in the same position in terms of personal integrity, demeanor, and so on. I found that to be a very cool way of characterizing all three of them! |
I watched all of the interviews because I enjoy hearing about what the staff thinks of the characters; you don't really get much of a sense of the characters when they're not on duty (except possibly Togusa) and it's really neat to get a better sense of what the actor is trying to put into the character. I also thought the Aoi-Togusa-Aramaki axis was quite interesting.
I also appreciate Motoko's newfound interest in covering her rear; the fanservice in the first season drove me nuts. Also, isn't that black leather shrug she has the coolest? I'm saving up to buy a replica of it, because it's one of those anime things I can actually see myself wearing around.
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Zivil
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Texarkana, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:46 pm
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Tony K. wrote: | In relation to SAC, after rewatching the last episode and reading a couple of the ending threads, I think I've figured out how the "Laughing Man" case ties into 2nd GIG. As was mentioned about the Stand Alone Complex, our society has "developed" to the point of being able to create a sense of alienation amongst the different peoples of the world. For whatever reason that some people just aren't able to cope with the pressures of life, they become isolated and eventually split apart from the rest of the population, and thus the "Stand Alone" part.
Though it's not directly explained in SAC, Aoi mentions that he is not, in fact, the original "Laughing Man," but a mere copycat himself like a few of the people we saw in earlier episodes. The whole nanomachines vs. Murai Vaccine was his own agenda as adapted by a similar intent when he accidentally stumbled upon the fragment of the the original LM's blackmail threat to the same Serano, but most likely for a different purpose.
But with the society being the way it is (not only in the series, but you could argue the real world as well), you've got all of these people who want to individualize themselves from the rest of the bunch. I'm not sure if this is necessarliy a part of the Stand Alone Complex itself, as I thought that was more of a result from society, not the individual. But whatever the inverse is called by way of the individual casting off society instead, you have this "other Complex" (or it could be the same, if anyone can clear up this terminology for me) that these IE followers are trying to mimic. |
I kind of think there was some multiple meanings with the title Stand Alone/Complex. One being the mix of individual or Stand Alone episodes that had no relation to the Complex intertwined story of the Laughing Man/Nanou-A affair.
Then there is the Stand Alone/Complex of people in the story. I found the concept of multiple copies without an original a difficult concept originally. I had to watch multiple times to get that Aoi was not the original Laughing Man. The Complex was demonstrated by the people in the show began exhibiting symptoms of Nanou-A by trying to assassinate Commander Dido(sp?) even though they had not actually been exposed. Then demonstrating the Stand Alone part in the same episode by having these individuals confessing different stories to the police... from one saying he was the Laughing Man to another saying that the Laughing Man told him to do it.
Finally, there is the Stand Alone/Complex of people in today's Japanese society. I have no direct knowledge of Japanese society, but the theory works pretty well applied to American society, too. I was watching Paranoia Agent about the same time as SAC for the first time. I eventually came to think that the writers of both stories were commenting on the tendency of the masses to gravitate to fads. People tend to like the same things and act in the same way and rationalize their beliefs in the same ways all the while shaking their fists in the air claiming they are different just like everybody else.
Plus ce change, plus ce la meme change (RUSH)
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Sogekingu
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 27
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:35 pm
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The dub is just amazing I even have most of the dubbed episodes on my computer from Direct2Drive.com (don't worry it isn't a fansubbing site or anything, you actually have to pay to get the episodes.) its like an itunes thing for anime but there isn't much on there. anyways does anyone know if there is going to be a 3rd season or another movie? or is it just gonna end with SSS?
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Tony K.
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 11311
Location: Frisco, TX
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:13 am
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Zivil wrote: | I eventually came to think that the writers of both stories were commenting on the tendency of the masses to gravitate to fads. People tend to like the same things and act in the same way and rationalize their beliefs in the same ways all the while shaking their fists in the air claiming they are different just like everybody else. |
Yeah, that kind of behavior has always been present in society. I think there was a term for it they used in one of my Psych. classes, but I don't remember it anymore . In either case, though, the tendency for people to sort of "conform" to certain ideas or concepts (I'm trying to be as broad as possible here, by the way) can be a result of any number of reasons. Maybe it's for personal safety and assurance, though that person may still live a life considered "dull" or "uneventful" because they're trying so hard to "fit in," and thus not really "living" (depending on your view). Maybe people do it for the attention, the adrenaline. Who knows?
But the particular word you used, fad is a great way to put it. Now that I think about them, the concepts of "Stand Alone Complex" and the "Individual Eleven" essay are a couple of antitheses for that, right? I finished up to Vol.4 just a little while ago (that's ep. 16, or 42 overall), and I'm wondering if the series is depicting those particular concepts as a good or bad thing.
If you think about it, a lot of different mediums tend to promote individuality; music, movies, literature, etc. I guess the particular way they portray this aspect within the whole series just feels kind of negative. Not that we should settle into conformity either, but maybe finding the balance between the two is the goal? I don't know, now I'm starting to confuse myself.
At any rate, those Paz and Saitou sidestories were awesome. The interviews in the extras were particularly enlightening. Kamiyama was bascially interviewing Toru Ohkawa (Saitou) and Takashi Onozuka (Paz), and it was a satisfying experience to hear their own thoughts on having an episode made just for them. You also get a sense of how they wanted to portray the characters from what they saw in the script, some of their own personal thoughts of the characters themselves, and how the overall experience felt in contrast to their normal recording sessions (when they basically didn't as much).
Same goes for the interviews with Sakiko Tamagawa (Tachikoma) and Yutaka Nakano (Ishikawa). In particular, I found it very interesting that Tamagawa actually tried to keep her personalities toned down for the Tachikomas in the episode about their "exploring for a third consciousness" (don't remeber the name off the top of my head). Kamiyama explained that what they tried to go for was the illustration of preserving each of the Tachikomas individuality. But at the same time, they were kind of left in the dark about it because they didn't even know their A.I.s were up in a satellite in outer space.
Tamagawa was actually uninformed of this plotpoint herself during the recording and surprised to know that she was to make them all seem more individualistic after the fact. But Kamiyama made a brilliant parallel in saying that since the Tachikomas didn't know about it in the actual story either, that it was okay for Tamagawa to still be working the dark. I found this to be an especially cool way of directing, while at the same time still maintaining a kind of authenticity to the show's writing.
And concerning Nakano's comments on his role as Ishikawa he admits he had a little difficulty becoming familiar with all of the long-winded dialogue and big words as the "analysist" character. But after a while, he says it started to feel a little more natural. And he also tells us that his son is also a big fan of the manga and anime, and that he would actually rate him on his performances (don't know how he could stand that ).
Also, they delve a little into Kuze's character as based off of the narration given by Ishikawa in ep. 16 / 42. Kamiyama tells us that while they were writing his character, they wanted to make a guy who people would look up to; a person that kind of stood above everyone else, that we wish we could emulate in some way or fashion. While Gohda was the opposite, representing some of the things we tend to hate about ourselves. That's a nice little contrast and perfect for the kind of up-down, parallel-perpendicular kind of writing this series already had going
Man, I took too much time making this post... But hey, that just means I've become like, completely obssessed with the series now, right?... <_<....
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varmintx
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1206
Location: Covington, KY
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:09 am
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I'm not sure what the term you were referring to is (maybe Jung's collective unconscious?) but there are many problems that arise from the individual mentality that is becoming more and more widespread in the world due to the rise in democracies. Egoism, and in-turn narcissism, is becoming the default norm due to popular culture’s romanticism of the individual and complete lack of concern for communalism. Self-sacrifice has been relegated to the exclusive territory of only the military (or similar groups) for which you'll find, contradictorily to the core ideals the U.S. was founded upon, emphasize the whole rather than the individual. It is used to justify cutting social programs (and a lack of universal health care here) on the basis that one must "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" which is a cheap slogan that completely ignores the real world limitations on the individual. It allows people to arbitrarily dismiss claims of discrimination by minorities by reducing the concept to one of individual choices rather than being the institutionalized phenomenon that it is. I might also argue that it is used to justify having unregulated commerce that helped lead to the labor-friendly Keynesian system being tossed aside, but on this point, anyone taking me to task on it might find I have little defense. Sorry for not taking the time to cite sources or make proper arguments as these are rather large generalizations I’m making, but this thread is about GITS, so I don’t want to go too far off-topic...and I'm lazy.
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SlyphGlitch
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Fighting my way out
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:07 am
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Do the Japanese interviews shed any light on some of Second Gig's murkier points?
I'm the odd man out but I think SAC is a superior series to 2nd Gig.
I guess my biggest problem with 2nd Gig is it's endless chest beating of how "awesome" Japan is and how everyone else sucks. I will admit I've never been to Japan, but I spend a lot of time studying history and Asian culture and the amount pointless Japanese nationalism that is put into 2nd Gig is off putting to me.
If you love God bless you, it's just not for me.
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Tony K.
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:19 am
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SlyphGlitch wrote: | Do the Japanese interviews shed any light on some of Second Gig's murkier points? |
Sort of. In the first volume's extras, Kamiyama talks a little about the scenario they were trying to write into the 2nd GIG; something about nationalism, or how Japan used to be during the Cold War, I think. I don't know anything of the nation's status during that particular time, but maybe that's the plot in 2nd GIG felt so biased (and the whole "Imperial America" thing doesn't help either ).
I finished Vol.5 tonight, but my brain is feeling overloaded, as I can't think of anything to type about it right now, other than I was right in guessing Kuze is that little boy that did the origami, and the prosthetic girl from then is The Major. I didn't think they'd make things so melodramatic...
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Hokum
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:52 am
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SlyphGlitch, i agree with you i prefered SAC to 2nd GIG too.
However i dont agree about the japanese nationalism, i see the nationalists in 2nd Gig as the badguys, so isnt it anti government?
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TheVok
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 613
Location: North York, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:19 pm
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Murasakisuishou wrote: | Also, while I'm on the subject of animation not looking like Motoko, has anyone else noticed that the art style in 2nd GIG seems to switch between episodes? It's been a while since I've seen it, so I can't exactly give any examples, but I remember the art being pointier and less 'realistic' in a few episodes when compared to others. |
I preferred 2nd Gig, mainly due to the story focus and having fewer 'stand alone' episodes, but also due to the improved character designs.
The Major, especially, was sometimes drawn very poorly in the first season. I liked the more stylized way she was designed for season two.
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Space Pirate Kid
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 75
Location: QLD, Australia
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:17 am
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just watched ep 11 'Affection' today!
wow so emotional! i felt so sorry for that kid with only the use of his arm!
brought a tear to my eye!
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Trivial
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 58
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:11 am
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I finished SAC 1 and 2, they were everything I hoped for in the best cyber punk series ever created.
Now, I just need to watch the three movies and maybe find the manga somewhere. Two of the three movies and the manga series seem to revolve around the 'puppet master.' Is that storyline all together seperate from SAC?and is it resolved in Solid State Society?
Or am I looking to far into it and should just watch and find out?
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Murasakisuishou
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 1469
Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:23 pm
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Tony K. wrote: |
I finished Vol.5 tonight, but my brain is feeling overloaded, as I can't think of anything to type about it right now, other than I was right in guessing Kuze is that little boy that did the origami, and the prosthetic girl from then is The Major. I didn't think they'd make things so melodramatic... |
That almost made me gag. I saw it coming right from that episode; I mean, even before they show the girl's prosthetic body, it's totally obvious it's the Major. And then they bring out the tomboyish kid with the *cough* purple hair and red eyes. I mean, who else could it possibly be? Then when they semi-reveal it, they act like it's supposed to be a huge shock. Honestly.
Of course, I still got teary
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