Forum - View topicREVIEW: When They Cry DVD 2
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panties
 Posts: 93 Location: LazyTown |
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My copy came with a Rena insert – the same picture of her in an Angel Mort uniform on the collector's box. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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That's right, the DVD comes with a foldout insert. Although it doesn't have any on DVD extras this along with the transparent case/reversible cover are nice. Geneon's Pencil boards (like the ones in Black Heaven, Herlock, Kanazuki, Trigun and Ergo Proxy) are even nicer and often not mentioned in reviews. Of course they are not as cool as the sheet of magnets that came with Funi's School Rumble.
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Renaisance Otaku
 Posts: 469 Location: Modesto, CA |
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I knew someone would point that out. I stopped watching the first season to give me some time to come to grips with it's absurdity. Generally, if I take a breather, I'll like the rest better as it gives me a chance to reset my suspension of disbelief (something utterly destroyed by the first arc and only slightly repaired by the second). I really like the concept, but found the execution lacking. Then Kai came out, and I heard to corrected some ommisions in the first show. So I figured I'd try it to see if it would improve my opinion of the series. I'm only still watching Kai as that's what's being released at the moment, I'm enjoying it a whole lot more, and my understanding of how the show works seems to dictate that order isn't exactly crucial. The arcs' nature tends to lend itself to that. That, and key spoilers had already be delivered (mostly by people who really want to promote the show). Strangely, spoilers only seem to enhance the show, as this is definitely one of those better the second time. So what if I now know who kills who, it's utterly predictable anyway, as most of what revealed about the past arcs are obvious when you watch them. To be honest, outside of a few moments where it's obvious I'd have a tad more appreciation if I'd seen the corresponding question arc spoiler[ like how I might not have figured out the significance of the doll had I not seen Cotton Drifting], it hasn't really ruined anything. In fact, it makes more sense than the preceding show., and, coupled with what I know already, makes the previous season work a lot better. The storytelling of Higurashi's question arcs isn't really something dependent on consistency, nor is the over all story of each very deep. It's basically the same idea each time. Someone goes crazy, and murders occur. Having an answer arc "spoil" the fact that murders occur in a horror series is kind of a non-issue. All it spoils is the intentionally vague writing and shoddy motivations by filling in gaps I'm not supposed to know. Somehow, I think it's actually going to be more suspenseful now that I have a better clue what to expect. In other words, the stuff actually seems to happen for a reason, rather then for mere shock value. That's because all I'm missing are the details of the circumstances, which appear to have little bearing on understanding the overall show at all. The added fact that plot points originally seem to happen at random or are intentionally omitted also makes knowledge of things like the disaster just another unexplained piece, so it's another non-issue as I'm already used to not knowing everything. The arcs aren't even entirely dependent on one another, outside of details. They build on things sure, but work more in a backwards sense, hence prior knowledge isn't needed. You're given a story, with no info, and then the next arc gives a few details that might help in figuring out what the heck just happened. Which I generally love non A to B storytelling, Higurashi is in some ways brilliant, and in other ways not, as it tends to do a poor job intially in picking and choosing crucial info, as it relies too much on shock value and scenes rendered nonsensical through lack of any setup. In a nutshell, great concept, sloppy but improving execution. This becomes obvious as I can easily understand what's going on in Kai even though I've missed a lot. Heck, given Kai's tendency to revisit "what happened before", I'd go so far as to say that one could watch Kai without ever seeing the first series, and still fully grasp what's going on. In fact, they might like it better. So if this ruins the first season, it just demonstrates how utterly weak it is in the first place, or how much it depends on missing information to generate suspense as it must apparently must relay on confusion and irrationality to "work". If not knowing why a character is freaking out is the key thing to Higurashi's "mystery" and appeal, it's still a wonder why this show gets such praise. 
Though I suppose now I'll just be accused of "just not getting it." 
Besides, spoiler[the simple establishment that it's all a loop where something intentionally goes wrong, hence explaining that the certain characters are supposed to be acting irrationally each time has done wonders in allowing me to accept what's going on, and resolves Keiichi's behavior in arc one] I actually intend to finish season one after the Massacre arc is through, as Kai has reconciled numerous issues I had in the first place. So, even if "the suspense is ruined [which, I assure you, it has not]", I'll probably enjoy the third arc a lot more now. Speaking of "ruining the suspense", in this case, no. As I've basically outlined in my previous post, the show, for me, had none. The shear lack of character motivations (explained clearly in Kai) coupled with an uneven tone (also corrected in Kai) removed all suspense and creepiness the show tried to achieve. How can you ruin something non-existent? Kai restores some of this by having much better motivations. Might I add that comparing Higurashi's mysteries to Memento's is a completely erroneous statement, and does the latter a great injustice. Memento's twist turned it on it's ear, whereas Higurashi is merely explaining it's own absurdity. spoiler[Granted, the loop revelation being confirmed as actual and not just a stortytelling device] is a kind of similar twist to the kind of one at the end of Memento, but I'd say a better comparison to spoiler[learning he's already avanged his wife, and didn't remember it] is to Giant's Robo's ending that revealed that spoiler[the test samples would actually save humanity, not destroy it,].
I think you misinterpreted what i was getting at. My problem wasn't with his paranoia, but the fact that he seemlingly could switch it off early on. Explain to me how spoiler[he'd come to the conclusion of Rena being dangerous right after hearing of an age old murder. There was nothing to support this at that moment. Yes, the whole thing centered on them keeping secrets from his, but it just seemed irrational.] That, coupled with the fact that we knew nothing about these characters leaves one wondering what's wrong with this kid, rather than the intended spoiler["can Rena and Mion be trusted?"] That's what they were going for, but since Keiichi's motives were painfully unclear, it didn't work. Sure, spoiler[after the needle bit, he's a bit more consistent, but in the start he literally goes from 'best buds' to 'I think see might kill me' to "everything's normal" to 'since they're hiding things from me they must be murderous' and so on]. It's part three that messes everything up, as it's counter to his then established development. If they'd left some suspicion in those scene, and not switched to over the top zany comedy (which I was trying to figure out how that was supposed to fit), it would've worked better. spoiler[ Besides, isn't it all in his head any way? It retrospect that makes the most sense. Kai s bit on it being intentionally irrational behavior, fixes things even more so.] This is why I felt the second arc worked better, as the motives made sense (even if they were misleading), though the unevenness still somewhat damages it, as does the apparently stupid ending. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this show, I just think that certain elements are rather overrated, and that it could be presented a lot better. I really do like the concept, and some of the characters [though arc one killed Rena for me]. I wouldn't be wasting my time if I didn't. Kai has solved most of my issues with the storytelling, so i don't mind being "spoiled", though i don't really feel like I have been, as all it's done is explain the irrationality and spoil who kills who. The real meat of it isn't really touched (namely the backgrounds of some characters). I'm just capable of writing all this as I've been trying to explain this to my obsessed friend. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Well, yeah, your whole post (particularly this paragraph here) has demonstrated that this is pretty much the case. A lot of the first season isn't supposed to make a whole lot of sense early on. If you knew everything, it wouldn't be a mystery now, would it? |
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Renaisance Otaku
Posts: 469 Location: Modesto, CA |
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No it wouldn't, but Higurashi takes it to the point where one can't even get into it unless they love horror for the sake of horror. It's hard to enjoy the mystery when it's keeping you from even caring about what's going on, hence the mystery becomes pointless. Forgive me for wanting the show to present such mystery in a simi-logical manner, rather than trying to create it through leaps of logic.
It doesn't have to spell it out, I'd prefer it not to, but a little consistency isn't too much to ask for, is it?
I do get that it's supposed to be confusing early on, but making it such to the point of destroying escapism doesn't really make for compelling TV in my book. I suppose I was supposed to be creeped out by Rena's laughing, and understanding of Keiichi's paranoia, despite the poor setup for them? I didn't even find it so much confusing as just apparently badly directed. It's very easy for me to get into most shows, but something about Higurashi's presentation early on prevented that. So pardon me if I wasn't swept up in it through merely the violence and confusion [violence without apparent meaning is boring as heck].  ;;.
My point with Kai was that it has spoiled very little of the series outside of clearing up some motivational issues. The show's nature is in revealing a little at a time, so jumping ahead is surprisingly not as informative as you think. I hardly know everything, and do agree that knowing such would spoil a mystery in the traditional sense. There's plenty of mystery left in the show. It's merely explained the parts of the show that were absurd or felt tacked on for shock value, which, without such, made the show more comical than disturbing. I'll find it a lot more creepy and suspenseful seeing characters acting in ways I know they shouldn't be, rather than them acting as such with little reason. It just comes off as out of character as it's being done without establishing anything about them. Now I actually give a damn about them. spoiler[ Compare Rika's outburst in Kai 8 to, say, Mion's ladder scene. It works better as there's an inkling beforehand and it doesn't seem out of character.] It's actually gotten me interested in watching the rest of the series, where as before I had very little drive to continue outside of vague curiosity and a mild liking of some characters. So I don't see anything wrong in my case. My statement on being able to watch Kai separate was merely based on the fact that I can still appreciate what's going on, without prior knowledge I should have, due to the world's repetitive nature. So I don't see how that statements incorrect.  It's not like I'd recommend doing such, nor do I intend to finish Kai before hand, I'm merely saying that it seems like it still works on it's own (probably to get people who missed the first show in Japan on board).
Sorry for the long post, especially the first one. I wrote that one when I was tired, and when I get tired, I tend to prattle in order to cover all bases. I was just trying to explain it to myself as well, and the "kills the suspense" bit got to me, as it just isn't the case.  Even this has gotten too long as I proofread.
It's just really hard to sum up in text, and I'm sure I'm not coming off correctly, hence the joke about "just not getting it". I do, really I do. It's just not what I find compelling; and feel that a little explanation of spoiler[they're supposed to be acting irrationally] has gone a long way to fixing that, as well as give me enough time to actually care about the characters before messing with them. Is it wrong that having new characters go crazy and die before you get to know them doesn't really strike me as good storytelling, nor establishing a mystery properly? One good episode where everything is "normal" with a hint of the sinister would've gone a long way in building the suspension of disbelief instead of the quick change of gears, change of gears, change of gears that happened in all of one episode.
I'd say this is probably as good as it's going to get in term of mutial understanding. I'd rather it not degenerate into stuff I've seen elsewhere. Conversations like this can get pretty nasty. I know dragging a discussion like this on isn't going to benefit either of us, nor help me like the show more. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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Unfortunately, the anime doesn't give us much access to the inside of the characters' heads, so sometimes their actions may not make complete sense. So I can see where you are coming from in that regard. And I think part of the mystery IS why the characters are going crazy and violent, so I don't have as much of a problem with that. And if people always acted in a completely logical manner, this world would be a much better place (probably). But they don't, so people acting illogically or somewhat inconsistently (especially when they are losing their minds) doesn't really bother me.
Yeah, that's a long post and I don't feel like addressing all of the individual points. If you're enjoying it now by viewing it out of order, that's fine, I guess. I don't really feel like arguing about it either, so we'll just agree to disagree. |
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