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ANNCast - Right On DeMarco


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Ronin2081



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:51 pm Reply with quote
There are plenty of properties in the US that could make good Action Cartoons the sad thing is most networks just don't care about action cartoons anymore and instead favor the comedic cartoons since they are easier/cheaper to make then a decent action show.

Though some think the time of American action cartoons is passing due to the boom of comic-book themed movies; I think that is one of the reasons Jason stated as to why we don't see many of them in the US any more.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:04 pm Reply with quote
Ronin2081 wrote:

There are plenty of properties in the US that could make good Action Cartoons the sad thing is most networks just don't care about action cartoons anymore and instead favor the comedic cartoons since they are easier/cheaper to make then a decent action show.

Though some think the time of American action cartoons is passing due to the boom of comic-book themed movies; I think that is one of the reasons Jason stated as to why we don't see many of them in the US any more.


And as DeMarco also pointed out --even anime-- serial action shows don't do well on reruns where they can get extra revenue off the same one-time license fee, while comedy shows --which tend to be non-serial-- do better regardless which episodes rerun. That means, non-serial show is kinda gift that keeps on giving, while serial show doesn't provide much extra returns after the first run. (Remember, many of these are not their own IPs, so the only money they make is off TV ratings.)
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:59 am Reply with quote
Great interview with DeMarco, Zac. It was great to finally hear about the birth of Toonami from the source. As much as streaming has cut into Toonami's viewership, DeMarco is right. TV is still the most widespread way to attract a general viewer. Streaming has made everything more convinent but it's like preaching to the converted. It's great for people who already watch anime, but a non-anime viewer isn't going to suddenly decide to look up anime one day. They gotta be shown something first to get his/her interest.

I'd also take a shorter block with all premiere shows, than a 6 hour block with half reruns, so I think it does work out. As the for the demise of action animation in the West, yeah, the flood of comic book movies in the past decade probably have something to do with it. I think Kill la Kill is great example of action that works better in animation than live-action. It's too bad, 'cause it'd be great to see a Western action animation/cartoon NOT based on a existing property (there are too many superhero/comic book, Transformers, Star Wars, etc. adaptations), more original stuff like Avatar or Korra would be nice. A shame that traditional animation really seems to be dying out in America animation since everything is CG nowadays.

Also, are we ever gonna get a dvd/bd release of Sym-Bionic Titan?
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Ronin2081



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:03 am Reply with quote
CoreSignal wrote:


Also, are we ever gonna get a dvd/bd release of Sym-Bionic Titan?


Doubtful since Cartoon Network recently wrote off Sym-Bionic titan last year. That normally means it's in a legal limbo where it will probably sit till the end of days unless someone like Gennedy tries to buy it and do something with it.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:33 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:


Fedora-san wrote:

Same reason why Invader Zim,


Invader Zim was cancelled because Nickelodeon and creator Jhonen Vasquez couldn't co-exist.



Well, that definitely didn't help things. However, the cancellation was primarily due to the fact that the show, while pulling in numbers comparable to Fairly Odd Parents (which premiered at the same time), was simply attracting an audience that was too old for Nickelodeon's target demographics. With the show failing to attract younger viewers, it was moved to Sunday afternoons and the ratings subsequently were cut in half.

Networks often have disagreements with show creators, look at Nickelodeon and Ren and Stimpy for a comparable example. But that doesn't always lead to cancellation. If Nick had really wanted the show, and could have lived with the older demographic it attracted, they could have found a way to work things out. Hell, since Nick/Viacom owned the show outright, they could have replaced Vasquez as they have done with other shows.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:57 am Reply with quote
@ dragonrider_cody

Interesting additional info.


CoreSignal wrote:

I think Kill la Kill is great example of action that works better in animation than live-action. It's too bad, 'cause it'd be great to see a Western action animation/cartoon NOT based on a existing property (there are too many superhero/comic book, Transformers, Star Wars, etc. adaptations), more original stuff like Avatar or Korra would be nice.


More original IP is nice and Kill la Kill counts, but most action anime are also based on existing properties, so don't hold it against Western action doing it too.


Anyways, the loss of the 3 extra hours does affect Toonami in one important way: Toonami loses the time-flexibility those "less consequential" extra hours afford them.

For instance, look at Ronin2081's example above: when Toonami only just got notified suddenly out of the blue that they'd lose Batman and Sym-bionic Titan immediately, they were able to use those extra hours to quickly change the schedule and air the rest of the eps there before they lost it.

There's not that many TV blocks where ya can make such drastic adjustments so quickly. Those extra hours afforded them that flexibility. So if something happens to the first 3 hours now (like that time they aired the last episode of Wolf's Rain but missing the correct ending theme epilogue scene, remember that?) - they no longer have the time flexibility to quickly adjust to correct problems.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:08 am Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:


Specifically about Madoka, its ingenious plotting thwarts playing it on television - just like Zac said a viewer who happens on to Attack On Titan would be lost if they landed on episode 19, so too would a Madoka viewer at any point mid-way through the series. Plus, the earlier episodes give little hint about what the show will become… surely, you've had to tell people to give Madoka at least until its third episode, for fear they'll bail after the second.

.


That's why I hope they show the Madoka movies instead; those will go straight towards the good stuff without having to wait a week for the next episode. And arguably, everyone will be in the same page once the 3rd movie is released.
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Veers



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:54 am Reply with quote
Before I get back to listening to the entire podcast I just want to say two thumbs up for that Terry Scott Taylor intro clip. Laughing I wonder how many other people recognize what it's from.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4478
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:28 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:



Anyways, the loss of the 3 extra hours does affect Toonami in one important way: Toonami loses the time-flexibility those "less consequential" extra hours afford them.

For instance, look at Ronin2081's example above: when Toonami only just got notified suddenly out of the blue that they'd lose Batman and Sym-bionic Titan immediately, they were able to use those extra hours to quickly change the schedule and air the rest of the eps there before they lost it.
.


I hadn't thought about that, but you have a point. Since I missed most of Beware the Batman when it first aired, I ended up watching it on Toonami. Getting to finish it, even in a rushed method, was nice. Even with premieres, there can be surprises, like having to go back and show the last two volumes of Hellsing Ultimate because they somehow only had access to the first eight when it started.
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
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Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:06 pm Reply with quote
Ronin2081 wrote:
Doubtful since Cartoon Network recently wrote off Sym-Bionic titan last year. That normally means it's in a legal limbo where it will probably sit till the end of days unless someone like Gennedy tries to buy it and do something with it.


Yeah, that sucks. I hope we see it on home video, eventually.

@enurtsol, it's true that a lot of action anime are manga or light novel adaptations but still, it's like 90% of American action cartoons all seem to pull from Marvel/DC, Transformers, or Star Wars over and over. Maybe it's due to fact there's just more variety in action manga in general.

enurtsol wrote:
Anyways, the loss of the 3 extra hours does affect Toonami in one important way: Toonami loses the time-flexibility those "less consequential" extra hours afford them.
...
There's not that many TV blocks where ya can make such drastic adjustments so quickly. Those extra hours afforded them that flexibility.

That's a really good point. Toonami is basically on a shorter leash when it comes to viewership numbers because of those shortened hours. Well, I hope this shorter time block works out.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:26 am Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
enurtsol wrote:

Invader Zim was cancelled because Nickelodeon and creator Jhonen Vasquez couldn't co-exist.

Well, that definitely didn't help things. However, the cancellation was primarily due to the fact that the show, while pulling in numbers comparable to Fairly Odd Parents (which premiered at the same time), was simply attracting an audience that was too old for Nickelodeon's target demographics. With the show failing to attract younger viewers, it was moved to Sunday afternoons and the ratings subsequently were cut in half.


Hey DC, got curious about this, so tried to remember a few things:

"Two Toons Debuts with Merchandising Potential - Big O and Invader Zim"

  • March 29, 2001 -- Two very different cartoon series are debuting on U.S. cable networks in the next few days, but both series could be important to specialty retailers. First up is the American-created Invader ZIM, a clever tale of a hapless space invader written by Jhonen Vasquez, the creator of SQUEE! and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. Invader ZIM debuts Friday, March 30 at 9pm (ET/PT) on the Nickelodeon Network.

    Nickelodeon has managed to field a very successful package of cartoons that eschew the violence that anime, and even the classic Looney Tunes exhibit. While Nickelodeon's cartoon audience generally skews younger than the Cartoon Network's, Invader ZIM has a chance to appeal an older audience because of the cleverness of the story and its many satirical elements. The scheduling of the show, in a slot that is filled by Nick at Night shows Diff'rent Strokes and Alf on other days, also fits this targeting of an older audience, similar to the group that shops at pop culture stores. Putting out a small display of Slave Labor's Johnny and Squee with a header 'by the creator of Invader Zim' is a way to make the connection explicit in the retail environment.

They were targeting an older audience, so not sure what their problem.

Incidentally, here's what was said about Big O before its premiere all those years ago: Laughing

  • The other cartoon making a debut on American TV is considerably darker and more violent. The anime import The Big O (see 'The Big O's Debut Set') starts on the Cartoon Network next Monday, April 2 at 6pm (ET/PT). The dark, noirish look of The Big O is clearly influenced by the Batman Animated series, as is the plot which features gentleman crime fighter Roger Smith, who just happens to have a droll English butler. But there are other elements as well including a giant robot (the Big O himself), a beautiful female robot whose looks hearken back to Fritz Lang's movie Metropolis, and a plot involving a collective memory lost that has affected everyone in Paradigm City.


And lastly, here's another from Jhonen Vasquez when Invader Zim got cancelled:

"Invader Zim Repelled"

  • January 21, 2002 -- We recently received a message from 'Jhnen V,' which said in part:

    'Nickelodeon has reneged on its order of 40 episodes of Invader Zim, reducing the number to 26, effectively terminating the crew on the spot.
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