Forum - View topicNEWS: Yuri!!! on Ice Anime's 1st BD Volume Ranks #2 on Overall Weekly BD Chart
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musouka
Posts: 708 |
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Probably the same thing that makes people think original anime like Madoka are aimed at male fans. It is a magical girl show and those are usually aimed at girls. Guess series aimed entirely at women were even more successful than previously thought.
The sport where the ratio of female to male fans is about 65/35? Sure, I guess it could have been aimed at that majority-female audience.
Did you mean sports anime fans? Because Haikyuu has a 67/33 female/male split according to Jump's own polling. Kuroko has 59/41 female/male ratio. Yes, I definitely agree that YOI could have been aimed at that majority-female audience yet again. I'm really happy we came to mutual agreement that women are the most likely target audience for this delightful series.
It's possible, but the aesthetics of the series would indicate that's unlikely. But, hey, good on them if it is! I, for one, welcome our new homosexual anime fan overlords. |
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CheezcakeMe
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As a women myself I am beyond thrilled at this show's success. Let the salty otaku tears rain! This may be entering us into an era where (good) anime is directed at women more often, perhaps even upwards of *horrified gasp* 50% of the time!
Otakus, we've endured your cruddy harem shows for decades, let us enjoy this. (Note I'm talking about the whiney otaku only. I know there's a lot of great anime fans out there not kicking fits because "that gay thing" sold well) |
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iamtooawesome
Posts: 351 Location: Thailand |
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It's now 50K combined lel.
And what's with this Malesexists salty comments? Dont forget that these fujoshis & straight female fans also runs the money of Love Live! and One Piece truthfully majority of the female fans are unbiased(jesus OPM,OP, Naruto, MHA shonen animes are full of them) unlike most of the male fans who in fact have a certain demographic preference. |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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I'm glad you specified. Maybe we should come up with a new word for them so I can stop feeling like I'm being labeled a loser here because I happened to be an Otaku? Not that Otaku was ever a very positive term, but now that we've got this epic otaku versus fujoshi war going on, I'd like to not be associated with either side. I just like good anime.
Looking at Stuart's past comments(or at least what was linked by musouka), that doesn't seem to be what he is actually saying at all. He claimed YOI would have a higher DVD to BD ratio because it had a lot of female fans. And it does. Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like a good thing. Statistically, YOI having a higher DVD to BD ratio confirms that women had a lot of power over its success. Of course some bought the BD, and I'm sure some guys bought the DVD, but it's just a statistical trend. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Look, I'm going to break down the logic progrssion of this argument because even if Stuart doesn't say it straight up, he's following the same line
The main argument musouka has been contending is the old myth that Women buy DVD and Men buy BD. This argument has been used time and time again to the following "logic progression" If a show A has a higher BD to DVD ratio, then it was mostly purchased by men. To which follows If show A is successfull, it is because men bought it. Conclusion: women aren't relevant to the industry and don't actually have buying power, thus it is unnecessary to make anime aimed at them This argument is often joined by "Successful show A was never aimed at women to begin with, which further proves the original conclusion" which you just saw Stuart champion, because these people regurgitate the exact same thing over and over and have been doing it for years |
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Proud2bPnoy
 Posts: 33 Location: Philippines |
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When ANN adds more salt to the haters tears: 
There I fixed it. |
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relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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I'm going to stop arguing for Stuart, because I don't know what his opinion actually is, but I do not see this kind of thought process nearly as much as you apparently do(and honestly didn't see it in Stuart's comments here). Like almost never. Only a few dumbasses here and there who hang out in places that I don't very regularly visit. And I've always disagreed with them. For the most part, people are happy with the success of a good show, regardless of the target audience or who is primarily responsible for its success(If Madoka sold incredibly well with women, I'd have to be pretty lame to take that as a slight. Whatever makes shows I like successful is a good thing as far as I'm concerned). I just get annoyed when people say things like, "cry otaku cry". "keep bringing the salt, you otaku scum". Yeah, I know you have been abused for far too long and are just getting your time to shine, or whatever, but it's still poor form as far as I'm concerned(not you specifically, you've been totally fine). This is a case of some loud mouthed immature kids ruining it for everyone else, it seems to me. Most people are just happy to see it do well. As someone who makes my living in business, it's interesting to see what the target audience of something is and to look at trends and whatnot, and that involves some speculation and profiling, but I'm not trying to make a loaded statement. It's just interesting. Looking at the numbers from my POV, it's pretty clear YOI was wildly successful with the female audience. The higher DVD ratio suggests that statistically and historically. Women have purchasing power. That's great. Nowhere do I see anyone saying that women never buy BDs, they are just more likely than hardcore otaku to buy DVDs based on statistics, but whatever. I don't really get this argument at all. It's a bunch of nonsensical misunderstandings, it seems to me. I also think YOI was popular among mainstream audiences and a number of men as well. I don't know why that has to be taken as a slight against female fans who loved the show and made it a huge success. Any really good show generally will appeal to a lot of people from different backgrounds and genders. My intention has never been to discredit anyone who liked the show, but to hopefully make everyone feel welcome in the fandom. I'm incredibly proud and happy for Kubo and Yamamoto for creating something that I love and for having it be wildly successful. That's it. No one wants to feel like they shouldn't be a fan of something because they aren't in the right club. I'm sure we've all been there. It sucks. |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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To be honest I don't know what to tell you. Stuart Smith literally tried to move the goalposts by saying "hey you don't even know if YOI was aimed at women to begin with" which is part of the exact same discourse. I mean, maybe you don't wander into these threads as often as some of us do, because saying you're "not seeing it" utterly confuses me. Here's one from last week
A different poster went on to claim that Osomatsu's success wasn't due to women buying it, when it's well documented that it sold most through Animate, a fujoshi retailer. Then we had the two that opened this precise thread. It's not "a few far in between in places you don't visit." There's a lot of them and they're right in this forum. We've been living with this bullshit rethorics for years. Claim a show aimed at women will fail. When it succeeds, try to claim its success is due to men. You and I may know otherwise, but there is still a noticeable amount of people who will vomit this kind of discourse at any given opportunity. So do forgive us for relishing in what victories we can get and continuing to shut down even the slightest whiff of this narrative |
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relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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Oh, yeah, I actually remember that comment. I just ignored it because it was not worth my time, honestly.
Even counting all of the ones you mentioned though, this still seems like just some bad apples and some other people who are just genuinely curious, but misinformed, rather than a massive concerted effort to discredit female fans. That's the only sticking point for me. I think we agree on pretty much everything else here, I just don't buy there being a major movement of hate-filled otaku trying to take the credit for themselves and dismissing women as irrelevant. Clearly there are some, but those people can pretty easily be ignored, in my opinion. They aren't worth your time, or mine. |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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I suppose the cycle will never end in this case.
My argument on this issue has always been "DVD has a higher presence in shows like this" and "Guys enjoy YoI as well" Not exactly controversal opinions.
I'm not sure what the contradiction here is. Magical girl shows are well known to attract a male fanbase, just like sports series attract a female fanbase. Which is why I always object when shows like K-ON get called otaku tripe when tons of women loved it. Generally series that appeal to as many people as possible are the ones that do the best. Fans of sports shows are the only ones that seem to vehemently deny any guys could like them, though.
First off, fan pollings are rarely ever accurate, but even accepting them as gospel that doesn't change the fact they run in a shounen magazine and are aimed at men. If you look at the TV ratings for shows like Naruto and Fairy Tail you'll also find a large number of adult women viewers. It doesn't mean they're still not for boys anymore than My Little Pony is not for little girls. And let's be honest, if anyone even tried to suggest a 51/49 split for one of these shows they would be attacked immediately
I don't think that's entirely fair. The only shows I've seen people 'push these narratives' are shows that originated in shounen magazines or original sports shows and it usually happens when people try to shut out male audiences. You absolutely have to expect pushback if you're going to say a sports series is only popular due to women. Also, are you sure when people say 'shows for women they don't sell' they aren't referring to shoujo and josei? Or otome adaptions? Because those historically don't do too well, a recent exception being Touken Ranbu, which I think would be a better victory to claim than another sports adaption. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt any guys were claiming they are responsible for Touken Ranbu's success. Personally, I find it interesting when people go to shounen over otome/josei when it comes to showcasing the buying power of women, which I would argue is a big reason why you see guys saying they also helped make it popular and arguing against it. -Stuart Smith |
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musouka
Posts: 708 |
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But, you'd agree that that guys are not the TARGET AUDIENCE of something like Madoka, right? Since it's a magical girl show and those are aimed at girls.
What shounen magazine did Yuri on Ice and Free! run in again? Osomatsu-san, on the other hand... |
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Chester McCool
 Posts: 322 |
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Yuri on Ice goes against most fujo aimed BL norms. The way it depicts Yuri x Victor was different than what you see in typical female targetted BL series. It's more subtle and less objectifying. Pretty sure Kubo also said she wrote it as a world without discrimination for gay people. Just saiyan. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4411 Location: New York |
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That's admirable, to approach the work in a way where the relationship exists but isn't fetishized like so many fans and fan works tend to do.
But they also tried to convince the audience that figure skating isn't boring as hell. I haven't watched the series but I've seen a clip where one kid says he wants to show everyone how "fun" figure skating is. No dude, it's really not. |
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gabuhaha
 Posts: 136 |
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Sorry, to jump in but this is a pet peeve of mine. I started reading manga and watching anime before all this label crap came over to the west and it just irritates the crap out of me whenever I see it. From what I can tell, Japan's labels are this: shonen - anything that can remotely be aimed at males in the teenage range seinen - anything that can remotely be aimed at males older than teenagers that doesn't qualify for shonen shojo - anything that can remotely be aimed at females that is not likely to be popular with males. josei - anything that can be aimed at females that is not likely to be popular with males and does not qualify for josei It's well known that females like sports anime with cute guys. So why aren't shojo magazines flooded with them? Because they also appeal to males. Therefore they get put in shonen magazines. We don't need to defend anything put in shojo or josei magazines because frankly, it's the leftovers. Are there males that read/watch adaptations from shojo/josei? Sure, I'm not arguing against that. What I'm saying is that unlike shonen/seinen, shojo/josei do not get everything that could be aimed at a female audience. When you see sports shows like Haikyu being successful, it's (mostly - I won't discount that there are a few saying only) females saying hey, it's due to us too! And when you see that crap being pulled over to any sports shows like YOI which is an original, is doubly irritating. |
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Stuart Smith
Posts: 1298 |
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Personally, I would say Madoka is aimed at magical girl fans if I was reccomending it to people. My point was basically it's impossible to say the target audience for an anime original series with absolute certainty unless the creator says something. But most cases creators say their work is aimed at fans of genres, never demographics. The correction article for the YoI sales numbers simply says its a drama sports show, for example
It's a good question, but demograph labels aren't that in depth. Shounen, shoujo, and their older varients simply just mean they're aimed at boys and girls. There's no underlying qualification like shoujo requiring it not be popular with guys or anything. As far as shoujo/josei sports go, they exist. Chihayafuru is one of the more popular ones, but the thing is fujoshi are different from normal women. Chihayafuru wouldn't appeal to them because of the presence of a main female lead. Fujoshi specifically want guy characters for BL undertones. Since shounen manga usually has mostly male characters, it's a natural attraction. Why arent series in the vein of Haikyuu and Kuroko in shoujo magazines? They probably wouldn't sell that well. Goes back to the whole normal girl VS fujoshi thing. Most little girls aren't into that stuff, they are into romance and drama, not hot blooded sports. -Stuart Smith |
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