Forum - View topicINTEREST: Gundam Creator Tomino Criticizes Shinkai Works For Lack of Sexual Intimacy
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shadow2039
Posts: 5 |
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what a strange hill to die on....
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Fluwm
 Posts: 899 |
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This is true, but... this has been the status quo for decades. And it's a status quo Tomino built his career on. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4426 Location: New York |
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He has a point. There’s no emotional payoff in these relationships, just a sort of...malaise when they reach a certain point.
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3rdImpakt
Posts: 118 |
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You corrected the articles title once clicked on but the article on the main homepage still has the misleading title. I mean, I totally agree with his comments and anime definitely has the stigma of male characters that are *words I probably can't post on this kind of website and will enrage the same people enraged by Tomino's words*.... But it's absolutely true. Besides the fact it doesn't allow for as many interesting stories and character development, it's probably important now more than ever (with Japan's birthrate crisis) to show more mature, adult relationships in their media. Also, what's with all the people getting mad and insulting the dude in this article on about ? It's as if they've been personally slighted by his comments or something. Is it because of the crass (but funny and clever) way he worded it? Is it because you saw Kyoani in the articles title and felt he was attacking them or they are beyond criticism? Also... People who are arguing that anime is "more sexual than ever before" are both incorrect and completely missing the point. Fanservice is entirely not what he is referring to in his comments. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1779 Location: South America |
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Some people attain great personal connection with some anime. In that case the these anime becomes part of a person's identity. I know because it happened to me: I do not find it easy to bear the feelings when people to insult some titles I love. Although that depends on the context. Usually I dislike it when the person is talking from the point of view of a "foreigner" to the titles he or she is insulting. For example, if someone like Tomino, who specialized on the direction of children's show's made to sell toys attacks anime titles that actually have something to express, I can understand why people might get it on their nerve . Although I don't care much because I don't find his stuff to be impressive, just a mediocre artist complaining about the kids these days not doing the exact same stuff he was doing 40 years ago. I personally find it the most unbearable when it is from someone from outside of the industry and fandom who is insulting it.
Inio Asano is one who is good in doing that kind of thing. Overall I think that anime's strenght mostly lies on its abstract nature which means it transcends "portrayal" and instead becomes just pure feeling (of which moe is an example, although moe is mostly common in shows that focus on the concept of friendship and not on sexual relationships). By the way I personally find sexual relationships to be such a cliche in fiction that I greatly welcome stuff that does not focus on that. There are millions of works of fiction portraying "mature" sexual relationships already instead, to me platonic relationships such as in Shinkai's movies or the sweet friendship in CGDCT shows feels so refreshing (I also loved Dead Demon Dededededestruction the most among Asano's works because of that). Well, but as an asexual person I find suffocating this manic obsession with sexual relationships in western fiction: it is essentially saying that asexual people cannot be fully human. Last edited by Jose Cruz on Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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3rdImpakt
Posts: 118 |
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I'm not even really a Gundam fan, but chocking up Tomino's career as "a director of children's shows to sell toys" while "attacking titles that ACTUALLY have some to say" comes off as extremely reductive and short sighted. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1779 Location: South America |
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It is my impression from watching half a dozen Gundam titles. There is so much better stuff out there... |
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Romuska
 Subscriber Posts: 802 |
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I think the bulk of the readers understand that but what's not clear is how on-screen or implied physical intimacy would have improved Shinkai's works, which Tomino doesn't clearly demonstrate. Also I feel your pain agreeing with him. I still defend the ending of Ideon, lol. |
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3rdImpakt
Posts: 118 |
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Well, you've seen more than I have. I won't argue there isn't better stuff out there. I also just find it disingenuous to say something like Mobile Suit Gundam or Turn A are "just toy commercials" while something like a Shinkai film "actually has something to say". Themes ranging from racism, military industrial complex, complex moral struggles.... There are too many to count in some cases and yet you say something like Your Name "actually has something to say"? It's a soft teen romance with pretty visuals and music. It's popular, sure, but I don't know what kind of pedestal you're trying to set up for it as opposed to the "toy commercial" of some classic Gundam series. |
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Frog-kun
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 118 |
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That should be fixed now too! |
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Oggers
 Posts: 368 Location: Ontario, Canada |
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Not sure if Clannad is the best example, since even after they get married Tomoya and Nagisa's relationship is pretty chaste. They aren't even shown sleeping in the same bed once they move in together, they just push two futons together and hold hands sometimes if they really feel up for it. Granted, they obviously do have sex later on and conceive Ushio, but still. |
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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Holy crap, people are so quick to have a kneejerk reaction to anything that is said in today's media. Clearly Tomino is not saying Shinkai's stories would be better if they were front-loaded with pervy shit; he just wants Shinkai's movies to have relationships, that for tomino, would a great deal more relatable if they were injected with a bit more *in Austin Powers voice* mooooojooooo. Sure, it's valid to argue that Shinkai's movies are less about physical intimacy (or overt romantic intimacy period) and more about the ephemeral longing humans have for others and the barriers that create that longing, but that doesn't invalid Tomino's criticism (or opinion; whatever you want to call it). People shouldn't make it seem like he's wrong for preferring a bit more sexual intimacy in Shinkai's films. Whatever reason you may feel as to why Shinkai doesn't have sexual intimacy in his films, it doesn't take away from Tomino's point that movies about relationships would arguably have higher relatability and emotional resonance if there was a tinge of sexual engagement between its characters, whatever degree that may be.
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Cardcaptor Takato
 Posts: 4912 |
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When you get down to it, a lot of Tomino’s criticism of Shinkai films could apply to romance in anime as a whole. The will they/won’t they trope has long been a popular trope in anime for a long time and popular fiction as a whole. Rumiko Takahashi especially seemed to enjoy using this trope in her works a lot. The issues with Shinkai’s romance is not that different from what people complained about in past decades like Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha. More often than not, romance in anime is about the journey rather than what happens after. Part of this is due to the demographics of a lot of popular anime which the big mainstream titles tend to be aimed at teenagers and young people experiencing love for the first time who relate to these kinds of stories more.
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Neohybrid_kai
 Posts: 144 Location: Indonesia |
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I'm a Shinkai fan but I admit the "never reaches the girl's crotch" line make me laugh hard. But Your Name has the protagonist literally fondle his (her) breasts? And how about Takaki and Akari kissing and sleeping in the hut together? And the scene where Takao measures Yukino's feet? IMO the characters in Shinkai movies are not that "pure", they're also longing for physical touch, its just displayed subtly.
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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Exactly; but whether or not the symptoms Tomino diagnosed in Shinkai's works apply to romance in anime as a whole, the "issue" is still present in his works. Tomino is probably under the impression that a film maker who's been garnering so much praise and admiration as of late would be making movies that divorced itself of this anime symptom; that he'd be making tales that spoke to the human condition in a way that was more insightful and relatable than what his movies have presented so far. I guess Tomino brings up Shinkai particularly because he's become such a namesake in the pantheon of anime greats; lauded for his "brilliant storytelling" and how realistic and relatable his portrayal of relationships are......but yet none of his movies actual explore, depict, or imply the effects of physical intimacy and the trials of sustaining it; which to Tomino, may be what he sees as a missed opportunity in Shinkai's films. Who knows, maybe Tomino expects more of Shinkai stories considering their success and is disappointed that all his movies fall into the same clean, sterile, portrayal of romance typical of anime. Again, Tomino pointing out the lack of sex in Shinkai's movies as a missed opportunity is not a denigration of his films or a disregard to the thematic integrity of Shinkai's stories. Hell, it's not like he said that the guy's films aren't even worth being considered art; Tomino is just expressing that Shinkai's stories would be more engaging if they had that element, as this element would make his stories more captivating to Tomino himself (and anyone who agrees with his criticism/sentiment) Last edited by we love lain on Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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