Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Wolf's Rain
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Top Gun
Posts: 4621 |
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I've become thoroughly convinced that James is watching a completely-different show at this point. Putting anything about Wolf's Rain in the same breath as George Lucas's ham-fisted writing is...dude, just no. This series obviously never clicked with you, but to sell it as painfully short as you have is unfathomable to me. I know I'm going to sound like a complete dick, and I'm sorry, but at this point I genuinely wish that another reviewer had been assigned to it.
Seriously, read Jacob's spectacular review from a few years back. Read Anne Laurencroft's column about the series' ties to the literary tradition of Romanticism. This is giving the series its due. |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2251 |
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I think it’s easier to classify Wolf’s Rain as something more akin to art house anime than what we tend to think of as anime nowadays—something with a relatively straightforward plot that only occasionally dabbles in the surreal when helmed by be specific auteurs. This is not that. For me, Wolf’s Rain is way more invested in emotions rather than making narrative or logical sense, in the way that I think David Cage always intends for his video games to feel rather than how they actually land, typically with a dull thud. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I also think that makes Wolf’s Rain the niche-est of niche anime and if you’re not 100% committed to this crazy, feelsy ride, I don’t know that it really works for the viewer. I heckin’ LOVE this show, but I also can’t fault just about everyone I’ve ever showed it to for just sort of balking at it. (Though for what it’s worth, I think everyone else’s Wolf Rain is my Ergo Proxy, so I suppose there’s no accounting for taste.)[/b]
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4102 |
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Ah, the start of the final four, the ones that left me an emotional wreck for days, the ones that show that even though Reincarnation may be a hope, it doesn't mean it won't hurt on the way there.
[Read review] Whaat? The only thing I can think of it must be a different show. And I have to ask that if I insist on applying logic to allegory, please yell at me. These "Wolves" work the same throughout so it's not out of the Blue when these Wolves have to be 100% human in order for the scene to work. It's kind of like demanding "Hey, this woman should look like a total wreck of human flesh after that fall! I demand realism in this fantasy with inconsistent visual rules!" |
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KitKat1721
Posts: 955 |
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I totally get the frustration, its one of my favorite shows too (I even re-watched it about a year ago), and it makes me sad that these reviews are the most in-depth coverage the show has or probably will ever get on ANN. But I do think James went into it excited with a completely open mind. Sometimes a show just doesn't work for you. I've always thought (and said in previous comments) that Wolf's Rain is a show full of dichotomies that seemingly shouldn't work together on paper. Obviously for me, they really do work well, and that's partially why I love it so much. But at the same time, I can't be that surprised that a show like that lends itself to pretty polarizing responses. That being said, I do remember re-watching this show with a bunch of friends in college, and the overall reception wasn't nearly as polarizing as I expected. Sometimes you just get lucky I guess! |
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Top Gun
Posts: 4621 |
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I feel bad about having this reaction, and I promise I'm not trying to shit on James in general. I've read a good number of his reviews on the site, and I usually enjoy his writing and tend to agree with his takes, or at the very least can see where he's coming from. I think that's where most of my frustration has come from: I was seriously hyped to see that the series was getting weekly reviews, and I was excited to see James experience for the first time. But what I got was absolutely not what I was expecting. I've read reviews with substantially different takes on a series than my own, and even if I vehemently disagreed with them, I've usually been able to find at least some understanding of where they were coming from. But as these reviews have progressed, I can't help but feel like James is describing a series that I don't even recognize as Wolf's Rain. It feels like he's overlooking everything I love about it, or having the polar opposite reaction as I did to so much of it, and that's what gets me down the most. And it's not like this is just my wistful nostalgia for a series I saw 15 years ago as an anime neophyte. I rewatched it last year for the first time in a long while and fell completely in love with it all over again. If anything, the passage of time only improved it in my eyes, since I now had a far broader knowledge base of the medium and could better appreciate what it did so well. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11429 |
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It's funny that James goes on about the dichotomy in Wolf's Rain without ever defining exactly what he thinks that is, and his examples don't really help me get what he's on about. As best I could understand it, he thinks it's a dichotomy that aesthetically the show is good, but the story isn't, and this is causing him existential angst. But given the general use of the word to mean "things that are contradictory or mutually exclusive," it hardly seems worth pointing out as a Central Defining Issue with the series. Lots of series look good while telling crappy stories (and to be clear, I don't think this is a crappy story). It's not so much a dichotomy as just a fact of life, since production values and story telling are different animals that can enhance each other but are not necessarily dependent on each other.
What's interesting though, is that Wolf's Rain does indeed have seemingly contradictory elements to it, just not the ones James keeps harping on. Jacob's stellar review (thanks for the links, Top Gun) spends half its word count on the series' dichotomies, showing exactly why they're in opposition and what function those dichotomies serve:
It's probably also why it's so polarizing, between those who adore it and those who really, really don't. But the point is, those dichotomies are deliberate choices, whether one appreciates them or not, rather than lapses in creative technique and skills as James seems to think. Re Cher's death, I remember the first time watching this being kind of glad when she died so that we wouldn't be subjected to her irrational brow-beating of Hubb any longer (I really don't like her). I also liked how they played out his silent, absolute shock in the moment she went down. Her death-bed beauty makeover didn't faze me, and the water burial was a nice touch.
It's comments like these that really make me question if he's even paying attention at all. Oy. Let me spell it out - oh wait, the dialog already explicitly spelled out why they were going to go off on their own: Neither of them felt like any Paradise found would admit them, what with one being a half-wolf and the other a pawn of Jagura. Since none of them know what Paradise even is, they're imagining the others being let in to some wonderful place while the door slams shut in their faces. So why hang around for that? As for them being in love, Hige was attracted to her because she was female, which was reason enough for him. She put up with him because she thought he was weird and funny (and Blue's taste has clearly been ruined by her years with Quent). But they actually bonded because both of them felt like outcasts from a pack they instinctively knew they should have had. Hige accepted her unconditionally (unlike Pops and Tsume, whose pride conveniently blinds both of them to everything they don't want to face), which meant the world to Blue, and Blue's acceptance changed Hige's entire outlook. "No particular reason." Feh. To me this just says, "I'm not even trying anymore." I hope when he's done reviewing this series James reads Jacob's review so that he can understand what he just watched, because it's pretty clear that a lot has gone right over his head because he was looking down the whole time. |
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KitKat1721
Posts: 955 |
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Yeah, I was honestly shocked how much I loved it on my most recent re-watch. I had seen it a couple times years ago, but enough time had passed that I figured it couldn't possibly hold up to whatever pedestal it was on in my head (most nostalgic shows never really can). I do worry a bit that given how outstanding the finale is, the last review will credit Wolf's Rain status as a classic all these years to that alone, which I think is selling the series as a whole and its fans short. |
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James_Beckett
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 279 Location: USA |
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It feels a little unfair to imply that, just because I have had a different experience of the show compared to Jacob, that I am not "understanding" the show properly or what have you. The difference in opinion between me and others seems to be more in how receptive I have been to Wolf's Rain's particular brand of abstract, vaguely allegorical narrative and character development. Basically, I think it boils down to how the show prioritizes the expressing of its ideas versus their impact in terms of actual written artistry. Take your example regarding Blue and Hige, for instance. I absolutely understood the conflicts they have been experiencing both due to Hige's tarnished sense of identity and belonging after the reveal of his betreyal, and Blue's fraught relationship with Quent, and everything that tangled attachment to human wrath and single-mindedness represents. I think that those are all very interesting ideas to communicate, on paper; I just think that Wolf's Rain is so concerned with expressing those ideas that the lived experiences of the characters don't click for me. I get hung up on the hollowness of Blue and Hige's relationship because, for all of the thematic weight their struggles have when you spell them out in as eloquent matter as Jacob does, I'm less inclined to be particularly moved by them when the characters those ideas are attached to feel so nakedly designed to solely act as delivery devices for Big Ideas. It's why I get so hung up on things like Quent's whole arc: I am experienced enough as a fan and critic of anime to fully recognize the themes that Wolf's Rain is trying to get at - the consequences of detaching yourself from loving relationships and a genuine connection to the natural world, especially when it comes to projecting your rage and hatred onto what you believe is a fundamentally inhuman source (wolves), when the evils you hate so much are actually a part of your own human nature (represented by Darcia, who is a human that has bastardized the form of the wolf for his own selfish reasons). I get all of that; I just get endlessly distracted when the show doesn't ever do anything with Quent the character outside of have him spout generic dialogue about his pain, his loss, his distrust of wolves/other people, etc. I once said on Twitter that I can envision a version of Wolf's Rain might actually play better as a silent movie or an opera, and this is what I was getting at. The broad, theatrical strokes and abstract themes that Wolf's Rain deals in are great, but the specifics of the dialogue, character motivations, etc are often frustratingly simple and one-dimensional. These kind of storybook archetypes and ambitious themes can and should be married together, but I think the decision to stretch them across two-dozen plus episodes without adding more layers of complexity or nuance are what hurt the show the most for me. I would have been fine with everything Quent was about if he just popped up every now and again in a two-hour movie or something. Taking the same amount of depth and development and extending it across over nearly nine hours (I think) just didn't have the same impact. Again, that's just my opinion, and I fully understand why folks like Jacob were more taken with the elements that Wolf's Rain worked best in. I simply had a different perspective. I am glad that so many of you all have loved it as much as you do; I just take issue with the implication that I am somehow not giving the show it's due. I'm pretty sure the dozens of hours of writing and reflecting I've done on Wolf's Rain should be proof enough that I'm taking it about a seriously as anyone else here. (Also, for the record, I've read Jacob's review of the show plenty of times; it and my wife's glowing opinion of the show were the main reasons I requested the Wolf's Rain assignment in the first place!) |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11429 |
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I think you've misunderstood my complaint then. Because tossing out lines like "Blue and Hige have gone off on their own, because they're in love for no particular reason," or "I still can't recall any conversation or flashback of Hige's that explained anything about who Hige was, or who he believed himself to be," make it sound like you don't. I don't expect or demand that you love this series, or that your opinion will be the same as those who do. I said before that I mostly found your comments entertaining and enjoyed a different take on things, and I've looked forward to seeing how you react to certain bits (I was honestly surprised the walrus fight didn't straight up set your hair on fire ). I also noted that the series is polarizing, and that there are reasons for such widely disparate views. What I'm objecting to is your reviews honestly aren't making it clear that you've been paying attention. What I mean is that maybe you do get it (and it just doesn't gel with you, which is fine), but you keep trying to make it sound like you're lost and don't grasp why the creators are making the choices they're making or why the characters act as they do ("Blue and Hige went off somewhere, dunno why. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"). You make your case better here than in your reviews. So as a reader I find that frustrating. But it's also gratifying that you're willing to try to clarify your views here, so thanks for that! |
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Color2413
Posts: 49 |
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It's great to hear from another English-speaking Fafner fan. As someone who also thinks that Bones hit its peak with RahXephon and Wolf's Rain, I agree with everything you wrote. I find it inexplicable how little attention this franchise gets in the West, and that Exodus still doesn't have a U.S. BD release, given its beautiful, feature-quality animation and deeply dramatic plot. It is also by now one of the longest-running franchises, having started in 2004, although with long gaps. The first gap was particularly nerve-wracking for fans, given that the original Fafner series ended with an agonizing cliffhanger, which was not resolved until the 2010 feature. Like you, I am following "Beyond," whose leisurely release pace is very much is keeping with the franchise's tradition . |
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KitKat1721
Posts: 955 |
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While I still adore the show overall (outside of the recaps because no one cares about those), I think this is something I can agree with. I don't think Wolf's Rain would lose its emotional core or weight with a 13-15 episode season, even if I can't help but prefer the more drawn out journey we have. I could say the same thing about shows I've mentioned in previous comments that have a similar atmosphere, tone, or desire to hold its cards close to its chest. For example, I love Haibane Renmei to pieces, but I think it could easily make a just-as-impactful feature film. I think everyone has a few anime series (particularly those seen when still relatively new to the medium) where specific moments of imagery just imprint on your brain for years. Evangelion is an easy example that comes to mind, but I know Wolf's Rain (along with a couple other choices) was that for me. The Cheza transformation, the eyeball tainting the field of lunar flowers, the bodies slowly being covered in snow as one of the most memorable tracks plays over top, all of it. It wasn't my first anime of anything, but it was one of the first that had enough of a profound impact that I had to search for more out there. Whenever I see people talking about "best anime finales," I don't think anything else comes close despite there being a good number of choices to pick from (speaking of current ANN classic streaming reviews, Princess Tutu would easily be one of those picks). |
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MysticGon
Posts: 44 |
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Honestly I had to rewatch it a few times before it forced it's way into my Top 10. At the end of the day the show has made another evangelist out of the reviewer so it did it's job. It's an all-time classic.
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Weazul-chan
Posts: 625 Location: Michigan |
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Stampeed Valkyrie
Posts: 835 Location: PA |
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I admit I haven't watched this series since it US shores back in the early 00's but it never really left a big impression on me. Reading others takes on it probably means I should give it another shake. I admit I hold this series in the same regard as I do Ergo Proxy.. which was an utter chore to grind through. This is not a series I think that I would ever rebuy on Blu-Ray as it never pushed past OK in my book and at points was a chore to grind through.
I'll add it to my rewatch list right after I'm done with Love Hina.. lol |
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