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ANNCast - Super Game Show Bros 3

I think the femnist movement actually did more harm than good.

The main female characters in the Arland games start out weak an inept, but the whole point is that by the end of the game they're strong, they've learned things about themselves and their friends, they've blown up badass monsters, they've accomplished what they sat out to (including proving to everyone who doted on them that they, in fact, are not as weak and inept as first thought), and by then the weak and inept thing is really played more like a joke in many cases. Rorona may still be a klutz and Totori may still be unable to read the atmosphere, but they're still very capable and the other characters in the game may joke about it, but they are generally acknowledge their growth and are glad to share in the girls' accomplishments.

I found Rorona's never-give-up attitude really endearing and while that attitude may have come from the fact that Rorona acknowledges she's got shortcomings, I don't feel like I liked Rorona because she had a helpless bimbo element or some other engineered flaws. I liked Rorona because she had a goal, she had drive, she had gradually growing confidence, and I wanted to see that realized. Same with Totori, except I found Totori a bit more annoying.

It's probably easier/better to accept that it's overall pretty shitty on both sides, because you can make the argument either way

AmpersandsUnited wrote:

I think the femnist movement actually did more harm than good.

This is a childish and short-sighted view, even as a joke. You are essentially saying "those damn feminist are tryin' to ruin my animes."

Just a humerous observation made as a joke, broseph. Calm down :rolls:

Again, no, you can't play this card. There's a very specific reason why you can find statistics of 60% or more of manga readers being female but like maybe ~5% of comic readers are female. I don't see how you can deny this at all outside of being a fan of western work and not wanting to admit there's a problem.

It'd be better to accept and admit where other people do better at something than you do, and try to live up to their standards and expectations and be more like them as if they are a role model. That's how people grow and develop. Just plugging your ears and saying everything is fine just dooms your own cause. This is what doomed comic books. Video games should not do the same mistake.. there's a reason the Wii and DS do so well; they've targeted more than the typical 12 - 21 male gamer demographic.

What do comics have to do with video games? There are a wide variety of reasons why comics are more popular with males in the US, and yes, it is a problem(not necessarily ones caused by the comics themselves). This has nothing to with female portrayals in video games however.

The Japanese aren't any better at making female characters though. For every one good female you list, there are dozens of Dead or Alive types designed just to titillate the male audience. It's just as bad.

It's an overwhelming statistic that puts the people who claim "Japan can't write or appeal to women any better than the US can" in their place. Dominating the three major media outlets (animation, comics, games) is a good example of why they are flat out wrong by thinking Japan doesn't appeal to females more. If you want to play the 'everyone is equal' card, then it helps to have some evidence to back it up.

Meredy from Tales of Eternia
Farah from Tales of Eternia
Chat from Tales of Eternia

Your turn. 36 bad female characters please.

Though isn't the argument about Japan VS America? Seems like a sleight of hand trying to turn this into "Japan VS Itself" after American examples didn't cut it. As long as Japan has more and better examples, it's not really going to matter in the end)

I have simply stated that they are equally as bad.

List

EDIT: I actually went a googled the characters you listed, and do you honestly think they weren't designed to appeal to a male audience? It's rather telling when on the first page of each search was a fairly large amount of pornography for each character. Not an attack on the characters, they could all be well written, well rounded people for all I know.

You're bragging about one bad character archetype being an exception to another bad character archetype... why, exactly?

By your logic, Japanese men have more diverse tastes then, since you get a whole slew of cast members in games. I'm not sure anyone would say Estelle, Rita, and Judith from Tales of Vesperia are all the same type of character, after all.

Now who's moving goalposts to exclusively 'female starring'?

Besides, this year alone we got Final Fantasy 13-2, Black Rock Shooter, Hyper Dimension Neptunia Mk. II, Atelier Meruru: The Apprentice of Arla, and etcetera. And I only cared enough to look up RPGs, not any other genre.

Well since you ignored mine, I'll go ahead and ignore yours for now.

the existence of the Wii/DS doesn't hurt.

I don't see how you can deny this at all outside of being a fan of western work and not wanting to admit there's a problem.

We fully admit there's a problem with western games. Nobody here is saying there isn't. We're just saying Japan has the same problem. The only person here who is potentially "denying there is a problem because they are a fan" is you.

But that is wrong, you can find more examples on one side.

While I could call into question a lot of charcters on that list, I'll only focus on one. What makes you say Yuna is a bad character? She developed immensely over the course of the games, and it takes some serious strength to willingly go on a journey you know spoiler[you have to sacrifice your life in the end].

31. Shiva (Every final fantasy game she's featured in)

animehermit wrote:

31. Shiva (Every final fantasy game she's featured in)

Not sure if serious. Since when is Shiva in FF a character?