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EP. REVIEW: The Genius Prince's Guide to Raising a Nation Out of Debt


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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3703
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:40 pm Reply with quote
I'm surprised there wasn't more follow up regarding Marden, but I enjoyed the focus on Falanya none the less.

Quote:
In fact, the only gripe I have with this episode is Wein showing up at the end and stealing her thunder.

Same here. I thought he was going to arrive and save the day earlier in the conversation, but once Falanya handled it herself, I thought that was going to be it and would have preferred it that way.
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Aerodynamic41



Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
I'm surprised there wasn't more follow up regarding Marden


There will be. Wait for the next arc.
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Lirsen



Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:24 am Reply with quote
Quote:
After the breakneck pacing of the past few episodes, it's nice to see the show slow down a bit and deal with the fallout of all that has happened in the series so far.


Jajajajaja sorry if i laugh too much but is funny reading this and looking at the light novel and seeing that they adapted a 52% of the fourth novel.

Because this there is done BIG problems with the time line. Now i will write what happens AND the day or happens everything that we saw in the chapter

spoiler[Day 0: falanya and entourage depart from natra to meastars
Day 4 ( or 3, don't remember the exact time): falanya arrives to meastars, participate in the ball and goes to sleep
Day 5: falanya visit meastars ( expecialy the commoner Parlament) with mayor Comino and starts brothers conference.
Day 6 and 7: continue brothers conference and falanya continue visiting the Parlament all day. At the end of the seventh day the brother conference is stopped because they don't get anywhere and need to rest. Is in this moment that Demetrio
explodes ( with an attendant on his chambers trying to relax him, attendant that the anime forgot completely)
Day 8: Demetrio goes to visit falanya with the marriage proposition and Wein arrives just in time ( he got so fast because he came alone and used the fastest horse he could get and even so it took two days to get there)]


[Edit: added spoiler tags. Errinundra]
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Aerodynamic41



Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:27 am Reply with quote
Lirsen wrote:
Is in this moment that Demetrio
explodes ( with an attendant on his chambers trying to relax him, attendant that the anime forgot completely)


They also skipped the part where Demetrio sent assassins after Falanya. He only went with the marriage proposal when the assassination attempt failed because Nanaki killed all the assassins.
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Lirsen



Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:30 am Reply with quote
Aerodynamic41 wrote:
Lirsen wrote:
Is in this moment that Demetrio
explodes ( with an attendant on his chambers trying to relax him, attendant that the anime forgot completely)


They also skipped the part where Demetrio sent assassins after Falanya. He only went with the marriage proposal when the assassination attempt failed because Nanaki killed all the assassins.


True, forgot about that, even more mess
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 473
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:13 am Reply with quote
The more folks complain about what was skipped, the more impressed I am by the adaptation decisions made. A lot seems left on the cutting room floor, but I never feel confused by events, characters, motivations, or decisions. Occasionally it feels rushed, but I've been able to easily keep track of it. For a show rushing through this much source material, that is an achievement.
And really, I want an adaptation to tell a coherent and cohesive version of the story. Not be slavishly devoted to going point by point through the original. In that respect, this show succeeds for me.
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Lirsen



Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:50 am Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:
The more folks complain about what was skipped, the more impressed I am by the adaptation decisions made. A lot seems left on the cutting room floor, but I never feel confused by events, characters, motivations, or decisions. Occasionally it feels rushed, but I've been able to easily keep track of it. For a show rushing through this much source material, that is an achievement.
And really, I want an adaptation to tell a coherent and cohesive version of the story. Not be slavishly devoted to going point by point through the original. In that respect, this show succeeds for me.


Because they didn't skip any plotpoint, but what could enrich those plotpoints. I don't know if you saw the first season of realist hero, but, looking at the light novel and this chapter, if they used the same pace they would adapted IN ONLY ONE CHAPTER from souma summoning until the walk in the city where liscia, Yuna and souma hear the two childhood friends from the military talk. Would you tell that is a good adaptation then?
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 473
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Lirsen wrote:


Because they didn't skip any plotpoint, but what could enrich those plotpoints. I don't know if you saw the first season of realist hero, but, looking at the light novel and this chapter, if they used the same pace they would adapted IN ONLY ONE CHAPTER from souma summoning until the walk in the city where liscia, Yuna and souma hear the two childhood friends from the military talk. Would you tell that is a good adaptation then?


I'm not going to comment on an irrelevant hypothetical: comparisons between a possible show and an actual one seem a bit silly to me. But I do watch that show, and I much prefer this one. There are several reasons why, but one is that Realist often mimics the pacing of a lobotomized snail. It could stand some judicious editing.

I presume I'm telling you things that you already know, but different mediums have different storytelling strengths. Did we see Demetrio send assassins? No. Did we need to? I would argue not. We got a good idea of the kind of person he was from visuals and a well delivered monologue- tools that the source material didn't have.

Thats the kind of decision making I'm respecting here- relying on the medium's strengths to enrich in a way that the original material could not. And cutting what the original material had in place to serve a similar purpose. I'm not claiming they've done so perfectly. But I think they've been far more successful than not. Certainly, I think the fact that purists seem to have the biggest complaints indicates so.
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Lirsen



Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:31 pm Reply with quote
[quote="b-dragon"]
Lirsen wrote:


Because they didn't skip any plotpoint, but what could enrich those plotpoints. I don't know if you saw the first season of realist hero, but, looking at the light novel and this chapter, if they used the same pace they would adapted IN ONLY ONE CHAPTER from souma summoning until the walk in the city where liscia, Yuna and souma hear the two childhood friends from the military talk. Would you tell that is a good adaptation then?


Quote:
I'm not going to comment on an irrelevant hypothetical: comparisons between a possible show and an actual one seem a bit silly to me.


im not talking about hypothetical, im talking about two shows that are being made at the same time

Quote:
But I do watch that show, and I much prefer this one. There are several reasons why, but one is that Realist often mimics the pacing of a lobotomized snail. It could stand some judicious editing.


then you and me are completely oposites, i like better when an adaptation is more faithfull to the source ( but not entirely 1:1) in both lenght and developements than an hyperushed with too much cut to the source.

what diferent mediums? both are light novels their source matherial and TV anime their adaptations

Quote:
Did we see Demetrio send assassins? No. Did we need to? I would argue not.


are you serious? skip completely the assasination atemp of a mayor player? or the skip in the last arc ( that again was hyperhused and skiped some major plotpoints and characters?

Quote:
We got a good idea of the kind of person he was from visuals and a well delivered monologue- tools that the source material didn't have.


we knew the character it had from the ball, they skiped so much in it that you needed an extra scene to see his character

Quote:
Thats the kind of decision making I'm respecting here- relying on the medium's strengths to enrich in a way that the original material could not.


Enrich? cutting a lot of matherial and using only what they want without adding anything new is enreich for you?

Quote:
And cutting what the original material had in place to serve a similar purpose. I'm not claiming they've done so perfectly. But I think they've been far more successful than not. Certainly, I think the fact that purists seem to have the biggest complaints indicates so.


Im not so purist, if they need to cut some irrelevant part that helps nothing for the character develoment, plot development or character interaction then cut it, but if a mayor part is one of those and they cut it i will not like it ( like they did in seirei gesouki, the cutted almost all character interactions in a harem series that make it looklike they fallen for him because yes)
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b-dragon



Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 473
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:50 pm Reply with quote
But the anime does add and enrich the plot. I assume you saw animation? Heard voice acting? These are things that lend to character developments and world building, We don't need Demetrio to sic assassins for a perceived slight to prove just how evil and petty he is. We can see his wonderfully evil expressions, hear the VA chew the scenery, and see the look he imagines- things a light novel can't allow for as much.

Let me put it this way: they skipped an assassination attempt. And you've not really argued the narrative is actually affected. The characters are still taking the same actions, for what seem to be the same reasons. It all is still coherent for the viewer. It all still makes sense. If a "major event" like an attempted murder of a main character can be skipped to such a minimum impact- then it was not an important event for the story. And thus, it is cut.

Also. if you want to claim you aren't much of a purist when a previous post is a day-by-day itinerary of what you feel should have happened according to the book...well, the evidence doesn't seem to support the claim.

Again, not arguing the show has been perfect- last arc they cut a bit too much, and some of the events had holes because of it- particularly how the escape played out. But in viewing it, that seems the exception rather than the norm.

Importantly- this is an adaptation. Not a direct light novel to anime translation. This is its own work- derived from, but independent of the novels. Events in adaptations get cut, shuffled, added to- and none of that is inherently bad. The source material isn't perfect, after all. I judge the show on its own merits: can it tell a complete and fulfilling story, with engaging characters? If it can cut stuff out, pick up the pace, and still do that- excellent. And if it fails, the source material still exists.
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Lirsen



Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:16 pm Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:
But the anime does add and enrich the plot. I assume you saw animation? Heard voice acting? These are things that lend to character developments and world building


No, they not add or enrich the plot, they add a new layer to the presentation of it, but the plot is the same or even less ( more in this anime that they skip a lot of things),
Quote:
We don't need Demetrio to sic assassins for a perceived slight to prove just how evil and petty he is. We can see his wonderfully evil expressions, hear the VA chew the scenery, and see the look he imagines- things a light novel can't allow for as much.

yes, we need those assasins not for Demetrio development but for nanaki an falanya development, right now they are depriving of development of those two characters because they need to CUT every single mention of them.[/quote]
Quote:
Let me put it this way: they skipped an assassination attempt. And you've not really argued the narrative is actually affected.


yes is affected, the mayor plot points are not affected but the personal development and interactions are.

Quote:
The characters are still taking the same actions, for what seem to be the same reasons. It all is still coherent for the viewer. It all still makes sense. If a "major event" like an attempted murder of a main character can be skipped to such a minimum impact- then it was not an important event for the story. And thus, it is cut.


the characters are making the same things because the major plot points are not affected, but nanaki and falanya aren't doing the same as the novel because they skiped them.

Quote:
Also. if you want to claim you aren't much of a purist when a previous post is a day-by-day itinerary of what you feel should have happened according to the book...well, the evidence doesn't seem to support the claim.


for starters i didn't put a day per day itinerary, i jumped from day 0 to 4 and days 6 and 6 i skiped almost fully, because we didn't need them ( excep the part where we see the progress of time and then, forgot about the assasination because there is a lot of things to look more major and minor

Quote:
Again, not arguing the show has been perfect- last arc they cut a bit too much, and some of the events had holes because of it- particularly how the escape played out. But in viewing it, that seems the exception rather than the norm.


and in this they cutted even more, the problem is that what they cut is not major plot points ( the three princes and lowa conference) but character building/development ( falanya and nanaki)

Quote:
Importantly- this is an adaptation. Not a direct light novel to anime translation. This is its own work- derived from, but independent of the novels. Events in adaptations get cut, shuffled, added to- and none of that is inherently bad. The source material isn't perfect, after all. I judge the show on its own merits: can it tell a complete and fulfilling story, with engaging characters? If it can cut stuff out, pick up the pace, and still do that- excellent. And if it fails, the source material still exists.


then this anime is a good one but an awfull adaptation, they arent antonym, you can make a good series but an awfull adaptation ( this one, the second season of the witcher, etc)
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Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18247
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:32 pm Reply with quote
b-dragon wrote:
The more folks complain about what was skipped, the more impressed I am by the adaptation decisions made. A lot seems left on the cutting room floor, but I never feel confused by events, characters, motivations, or decisions. Occasionally it feels rushed, but I've been able to easily keep track of it. For a show rushing through this much source material, that is an achievement.
And really, I want an adaptation to tell a coherent and cohesive version of the story. Not be slavishly devoted to going point by point through the original. In that respect, this show succeeds for me.

Siding with b-dragon on all points here.

And yes, Realist Hero, as much as I like that series in general, is an example of what happens when adaptation is maybe being too thorough. There's a fine balancing point with this in adaptations, as story pacing in novels ≠ story pacing in anime. The best adaptations (like, for instance, 86) account for that and adjust accordingly. Even if it is skipping things, this series seems to be doing a reasonably good job at that.


Last edited by Key on Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lirsen



Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:13 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:

Siding with b-dragon]b] on all points here.

And yes, Realist Hero, as much as I like that series in general, is an example of what happens when adaptation [b]is maybe being too thorough
. There's a fine balancing point with this in adaptations, as story pacing in novels ≠ story pacing in anime. The best adaptations (like, for instance, 86) account for that and adjust accordingly. Even if it is skipping things, this series seems to be doing a reasonably good job at that.


you thing that the "realist" adaptation is "too" thorought? first cour used 2.3 novels and, looking at the opening the second cour will finish with the fiveth LN, so, 5 LN in two cours. if you thing that is too slow then what it's monster musume doctor that only adapted 3 light novels in his cour and tate no yuusha that used the same number? or honzuki that adapted 4 novels in his first 2 cours and will adapt 5 in his third and, future fourth, cours?
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Melicans



Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 621
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am Reply with quote
Another episode where you could tell (even if you haven't read the books) that a lot of stuff was skipped, but again it was done in a way that didn't really impact the narrative. Falanya did great.
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Aerodynamic41



Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
How did Caldmellia get an army into imperial territory? Did they come through Natra? Or are there other paths through the mountains? Or did they come by sea?


This was explained in the LN: The mountain range has highways in the north, south and central regions that allows passage between the east and west sides of the continent. Mealtars is located on the central region.
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